Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

dublinman1990 · 17-06-2019 6:32pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I saw that yeah they all looked liked they'd never been on a bus in their lives a bit like Ross' spin on the 44. I wonder when these buses are due to enter service?

They may still be some driver training to do yet before it goes out for it's hybrid trial on the 25.

Does anyone know which bus was it out today? Was it WH1 or WH2? Is WH3 delivered yet?

Joegriffin2019 · 17-06-2019 6:38pm

They are waiting on final 3 to arrive, then a photo shoot with all 9 then entry in to service after driver training. Ide say 2-3 weeks.

Stephen15 · 17-06-2019 6:38pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

They may still be some driver training to do yet before it goes out for it's hybrid trial on the 25.

Does anyone know which bus was it out today? Was it WH1 or WH2? Is WH3 delivered yet?

WH2 from the picture I saw

devnull · 17-06-2019 6:39pm

The first vehicles will enter service by the end of the week.

punisher5112 · 17-06-2019 8:22pm

Can't wait to try them out, would love a rumnin fully EV though...

Funny in the EV ones they have a diesel heater for winter.

Stephen15 · 17-06-2019 8:39pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Can't wait to try them out, would love a rumnin fully EV though...

Funny in the EV ones they have a diesel heater for winter.

Problem is that EV double deckers are still only in the development stage and all the EVs buses that have been fully developed are single deckers so they wouldn't be much use for Dublin.

Perhaps they could trial some EV single deckers with GAI though for the quieter routes they use Streetlites on.

bk · 17-06-2019 8:55pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Funny in the EV ones they have a diesel heater for winter.

Do they?! I would have thought a heat pump from the batteries would be enough. They do generate heat. But perhaps not enough for really cold countries. I'd doubt it would be an issue for our temperate climate.

Stephen15 · 17-06-2019 8:58pm

bk wrote: »

Do they?! I would have thought a heat pump from the batteries would be enough. They do generate heat. But perhaps not enough for really cold countries. I'd doubt it would be an issue for our temperate climate.

I believe the ones in London have a diesel heating

devnull · 17-06-2019 11:24pm

The NTA have indicated that a public consultation will take place later in the quarter in relation to alternatively fuelled buses, which will form part of a wider consultation on elements of public transport within the state.

It's now expected that they will award the framework contract for the purchase of double deck hybrid buses and place first order by the end of the current calendar year, all going well with the first vehicles to enter service in Q4 2020.

Idbatterim · 17-06-2019 11:37pm

devnull wrote: »

The NTA have indicated that a public consultation will take place later in the quarter in relation to alternatively fuelled buses, which will form part of a wider consultation on elements of public transport within the state.

It's now expected that they will award the framework contract for the purchase of double deck hybrid buses and place first order by the end of the current calendar year, all going well with the first vehicles to enter service in Q4 2020.

Should we just disband the nta and have the expert public decide everything?

devnull · 17-06-2019 11:39pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Should we just disband the nta and have the expert public decide everything?

Unfortunately the NTA have took a lot of a battering about not consulting people enough so I've been under the impression that orders may have come from higher up that they need to consult more, all of that fake 'we wasn't consulted' stuff we heard about BusConnects has probably played into this as well.

Stephen15 · 17-06-2019 11:51pm

devnull wrote: »

The NTA have indicated that a public consultation will take place later in the quarter in relation to alternatively fuelled buses, which will form part of a wider consultation on elements of public transport within the state.

It's now expected that they will award the framework contract for the purchase of double deck hybrid buses and place first order by the end of the current calendar year, all going well with the first vehicles to enter service in Q4 2020.

I'd imagine this will be one public consultation with very little input or consideration. I could be surprised but I don't believe the majority care what is fuel their bus is using unless they have a particular interest in technology, heavy vehicles or happen to be bus enthusiasts.

Just like they don't care about the livery, who's operating it, the driver, the look of the interior or the brand of tyres used but rather that they have a safe, clean, reliable, efficient, quick and user friendly service.

AlmightyCushion · 18-06-2019 12:58am

Why do we need to consult the public on hybrid vehicles? It makes no sense. Let's consult the public on what type of tires the bus uses while we're at it.

bk · 18-06-2019 10:06am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'd imagine this will be one public consultation with very little input or consideration. I could be surprised but I don't believe the majority care what is fuel their bus is using unless they have a particular interest in technology, heavy vehicles or happen to be bus enthusiasts.

I largely agree with you, but I do think there will probably be public interest in the environmental impact of the options and perhaps noise levels.

I suspect that there might be worry that members of the public will see these for what they really are, just more diesel engined buses and will start complaining loudly.

I mean we've already seen people question why not full EV multiple times on this forum. So I'm sure at least some people in the public are wondering the same.

It is probably a good idea to actually lay out to the public, the results of the emissions trials from earlier this year.

If they can show that the PM/NOX levels of the hybrids are significantly less then the straight Euro 6 buses and similar to Biogas, then it might avoid some criticism. Or Dieselgate claims.

I'd also suspect they will show the big difference in cost of buses and infrastructure between Euro 6, Hybrid and Biogas and might discuss the current challenges around full EV double deckers.

If they are transparent about it, it might help avoid criticism.

AlmightyCushion · 18-06-2019 10:50am

bk wrote: »

I largely agree with you, but I do think there will probably be public interest in the environmental impact of the options and perhaps noise levels.

I suspect that there might be worry that members of the public will see these for what they really are, just more diesel engined buses and will start complaining loudly.

I mean we've already seen people question why not full EV multiple times on this forum. So I'm sure at least some people in the public are wondering the same.

It is probably a good idea to actually lay out to the public, the results of the emissions trials from earlier this year.

If they can show that the PM/NOX levels of the hybrids are significantly less then the straight Euro 6 buses and similar to Biogas, then it might avoid some criticism. Or Dieselgate claims.

I'd also suspect they will show the big difference in cost of buses and infrastructure between Euro 6, Hybrid and Biogas and might discuss the current challenges around full EV double deckers.

If they are transparent about it, it might help avoid criticism.

You don't need a public consultation for that. You can just put out a statement saying why we can't go full EV and detailing how these new hybrid buses are better than the existing diesel buses and when fully electric buses are practical we'll move to them.

devnull · 18-06-2019 10:53am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Why do we need to consult the public on hybrid vehicles? It makes no sense. Let's consult the public on what type of tires the bus uses while we're at it.

It will not be a consultation about just this per se, it will be an element of a wider consultation on public transport within the state.

XPS_Zero · 18-06-2019 8:28pm

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately the NTA have took a lot of a battering about not consulting people enough so I've been under the impression that orders may have come from higher up that they need to consult more, all of that fake 'we wasn't consulted' stuff we heard about BusConnects has probably played into this as well.

Every time I hear of this I think of that sign in my doctors office "To Google is not research".
You're asking people totally unqualified to render an opinion and they'll usually get it wrong, because they are only interested in their own little patch of the picture.

This idea has lately taken hold that public representatives and bodies are delegates for peoples opinions and must slavishly follow public opinion on every topic. I see it with Brexit. Like all the PC stuff and the constant need to add new letters to LGBT it's probably an overcorrection of a legit problem, where people vote a govt in on policy x then they do a total u-turn ignoring policy x (Labour in Ireland, Lib Dems in the UK, both with college fees)....but it has to stop.

They're not delegates they are representatives, public opinion is meant to be put through the prism of elected and appointed people who do this stuff as a full time job and temper that opinion with expert advice.

That's before getting into the fact that a certain % of the Irish population are just professional whingers who will complain at everything.

StreetLight · 21-06-2019 12:14pm

First one went into service this morning on the 25A.

dublinman1990 · 21-06-2019 4:34pm

StreetLight wrote: »

First one went into service this morning on the 25A.

More interestingly; it was WH2 that made the first ever revenue earning service on the route today.

What happened to WH1. Is that having more driver testing done or not?

The first of the new AH's have arrived in Broadstone 3 days ago. It's said that the bus is brand new but built to a London spec.

It looks brilliantly well. No decals have been painted on it though when the photograph shows it on Darren's Hall Flickr.

john boye · 21-06-2019 5:10pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

More interestingly; it was WH2 that made the first ever revenue earning service on the route today.

What happened to WH1. Is that having more driver testing done or not?

If they've both been delivered how does it matter which one enters service first? Is it important?

devnull · 21-06-2019 5:19pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

StreetLight wrote: »

First one went into service this morning on the 25A.

More interestingly; it was WH2 that made the first ever revenue earning service on the route today.

What happened to WH1. Is that having more driver testing done or not?

The first of the new AH's have arrived in Broadstone 3 days ago. It's said that the bus is brand new but built to a London spec.

It looks brilliantly well. No decals have been painted on it though when the photograph shows it on Darren's Hall Flickr.

The livery application on the front of the Enviro is very poor just like it is on Dublin Bus Streetlites and SGs. I

Inside looks not much different from an Enviro 400 and the colour scheme inside is pretty awful too with black seat backs blue seats and yellow seat handles. Hurts my eyes.

For all its fault at least the NTA specified front liveries don't age a bus like Dublin Bus and they have better internal colour schemes too.

Enviro 400MMC is a much better bus than its predecessor but the internal spec is pretty disappointing and doesn't show off the step change that the new version is in reality.

Stephen15 · 21-06-2019 6:29pm

devnull wrote: »

The livery application on the front of the Enviro is very poor just like it is on Dublin Bus Streetlites and SGs. I

Inside looks not much different from an Enviro 400 and the colour scheme inside is pretty awful too with black seat backs blue seats and yellow seat handles. Hurts my eyes.

For all its fault at least the NTA specified front liveries don't age a bus like Dublin Bus and they have better internal colour schemes too.

Enviro 400MMC is a much better bus than its predecessor but the internal spec is pretty disappointing and doesn't show off the step change that the new version is in reality.

Have the NTA given up now on putting DB buses into their livery I wonder or what's the story.

I'm not sure what they are thinking with the black on the back of the seats grey would be far better. I wonder will the NDA be complaining if a full order was to be made for buses with that colour scheme although there does seem to be a lot of black glass or perspex in the design internally. I like the new interior on the GAI buses myself but I've noticed a few times now that the seats have been replaced by DB style ones which looks awful assuredly to replace damaged seats. Also is it just me or is the drivers cab a lot lower to the ground than on the SGs for any other bus in the fleet.

By the looks of things the seats are the same ones which are on the the most recent dual door BE VWDs. I've heard they are supposed to be more comfortable than the current DB ones on the GTs and SGs.

devnull · 21-06-2019 6:52pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'm not sure what they are thinking with the black on the back of the seats grey would be far better. I wonder will the NDA be complaining if a full order was to be made for buses with that colour scheme although there does seem to be a lot of black glass or perspex in the design internally.

It's just the black / very dark grey seat backs, garish yellow handles in particular look awful together in particular and that's before you add the various dark greys around the window etc that also don't fit in. Also not sure the moquette even fits in that interior design either to be honest. It's a real mish mash.

Personally I'd have gone with a lighter gray for the seat backs and left the handles as a darker grey like it is on GAI but kept the poles yellow. The irony is there is all these dark features inside, and the one place that really needs it, the outside of the bus for the lights, doesn't have them and the bus instantly looks dated because of this, just like the WS class and SG class do. Notice how superior and modern GAI vehicles look with black lights and Wright Logo.

By the looks of things the seats are the same ones which are on the the most recent dual door BE VWDs. I've heard they are supposed to be more comfortable than the current DB ones on the GTs and SGs.

A move to the Esteban Civic V2 for seating is a positive move as they are hands down a better seat than the current seat used. Not quite up there with the higher back Civic V3 that the older Bus Eireann VWDs use (which is not really suitable for an operator like DB anyway) but a decent improvement over what is there at the moment.

Stephen15 · 21-06-2019 7:20pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

More interestingly; it was WH2 that made the first ever revenue earning service on the route today.

What happened to WH1. Is that having more driver testing done or not?

The first of the new AH's have arrived in Broadstone 3 days ago. It's said that the bus is brand new but built to a London spec.

It looks brilliantly well. No decals have been painted on it though when the photograph shows it on Darren's Hall Flickr.

I believe both buses were in service today

BonnieSituation · 11-07-2019 9:43am

Finally managed to get a go on WH2 on a 25A this morning. Seems so much more solid and quieter (fixtures and fittings wise) than a regular SG.

I do like the idle shut off as well.

What's the story with the other HEVs that they were to get outside of WH1 and 2?

Edit: Just on SG503 now and it's like night and day in ride comfort and noise.

StreetLight · 11-07-2019 1:47pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What's the story with the other HEVs that they were to get outside of WH1 and 2?

Rest assured they are on the way. One of them is being used for training drivers at the moment. The process will take a few weeks.

They are suppplied by Alexander-Dennis and carry the fleet code AH.

punisher5112 · 11-07-2019 3:26pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Rest assured they are on the way. One of them is being used for training drivers at the moment. The process will take a few weeks.

They are suppplied by Alexander-Dennis and carry the fleet code AH.

After Hours is a different ball game ;-)

LastStop · 11-07-2019 4:12pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Rest assured they are on the way. One of them is being used for training drivers at the moment.

They are suppplied by Alexander-Dennis and carry the fleet code AH.

( Pic hunters )If you're passing by Coyngham rd garage you can see it. looks different to the SG type, like something I saw over in Asia last year. nice.

thenightman · 11-07-2019 9:59pm

Yeah, I saw it pulling out of Connyngham Road this morning doing driver training. It's painted in the colours of the current HEV's on the 25A but has no markings. Has the proper low windows upstairs, not the uncomfortable SG ones.

BonnieSituation · 12-07-2019 9:39am

One of the AHs passed me at the SCR this morning.

Then I got on a 79A and WH1 and WH2 were behind it.

A smorgasbord of HEVs this morning.

Trebor176 · 12-07-2019 1:37pm

I got WH2 on the 51X last Friday. An unusual allocation. Maybe a one-off, but who knows.

I liked the journey. They're quicker than an SG, especially when moving off. They're also louder than I thought. Apart from the loud whistle, they don't sound unlike an SG.

The bus drew some interest too from passengers, some passers by, and other bus drivers. Even on Monday, a couple of regular passengers were talking about it.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-07-2019 2:28pm

I was on one of these twice this week on the 25. I have to say I found it a very bumpy ride as the restart after each stop had quite a jolt and the main door opened and closed on each restart too. It was also quite loud, and rattly, and felt like (though this may just be how it seemed rather than being a real issue) it struggled going up the hill out of Lucan village.

dublinman1990 · 26-07-2019 9:39pm

I've just seen a photo of AH3 on Darren Hall's Flickr page. It looks terrific.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/48374823876/in/faves-91538517@N02/lightbox/

Stephen15 · 26-07-2019 9:43pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I've just seen a photo of AH3 on Darren Hall's Flickr page. It looks terrific.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/48374823876/in/faves-91538517@N02/lightbox/

Is that in service or just testing the display?

GM228 · 26-07-2019 10:07pm

More pictures of the AHs here:-

http://dublinbuses.com

dublinman1990 · 26-07-2019 10:43pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Is that in service or just testing the display?

It's was doing driver training at Conyngham Road

.G. · 26-07-2019 11:08pm

That cab fan would be most welcome in this heat! The RV cab used to be like furnace when it was hot out.

devnull · 26-07-2019 11:39pm

Would look far better with the lights in black and the reg plate part in black, as most other operators of the MMC do.

punisher5112 · 26-07-2019 11:45pm

Just noticed no front opening windows like on GT and SG.

Stephen15 · 26-07-2019 11:48pm

Have to say these look like they have the edge on the Gemini 3s for me anyway if they made a few changes to them such as removing the the black seatbacks and replacing them with grey. Also think the seats would look better with TFI moquette which I hope is rolled out to DB in the coming years aswell. According to another website the driver feeback has been overwhelmingly positive on these.

dublinman1990 · 09-08-2019 12:59am

Here's a pic of one of the VH's that I found on Facebook.

https://scontent.fdub4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67401897_1217378888422701_3930045966631043072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlEdlDqswOOZh11ZJZW5avBZxx7eFtMYJVbDKzUe7b4FRTTVa2BNvquODQAcZ6CXPM&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub4-1.fna&oh=7ee2153749a197dc9a6fac3efb8ccc8c&oe=5DDCE68A

punisher5112 · 09-08-2019 1:00am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Here's a pic of one of the VH's that I found on Facebook.

https://scontent.fdub4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67401897_1217378888422701_3930045966631043072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlEdlDqswOOZh11ZJZW5avBZxx7eFtMYJVbDKzUe7b4FRTTVa2BNvquODQAcZ6CXPM&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub4-1.fna&oh=7ee2153749a197dc9a6fac3efb8ccc8c&oe=5DDCE68A

Looks like a toy

Stephen15 · 09-08-2019 1:03am

Video of WH1 here

punisher5112 · 09-08-2019 1:24am

Just so anyone planning on doing a video on a db it's actually illegal and needs to be booked in advance to do so.....

I'm not messing either.

GM228 · 09-08-2019 7:22am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Just so anyone planning on doing a video on a db it's actually illegal and needs to be booked in advance to do so.....

I'm not messing either.

There's nothing "illegal" about recording on DB without permission.

thenightman · 10-08-2019 12:14am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Just so anyone planning on doing a video on a db it's actually illegal and needs to be booked in advance to do so.....

I'm not messing either.

I assume the lads snorting coke, smoking crack and drinking cans down the back on the 40 is illegal too. Funnily enough never see any DB employees rushing to stop that particular practice. However, a quiet bus enthusiast filming a new bus on his phone, call the inspector car!

punisher5112 · 10-08-2019 12:37am

GM228 wrote: »

There's nothing "illegal" about recording on DB without permission.

Go and look up the bye laws....
It actually is.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2019 12:38am

Obviously none of you have been harassed and had videos and photos taken on different occasions.

Look GM think of it as you like but I'm well aware of the rules and bye laws

devnull · 10-08-2019 10:01am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Obviously none of you have been harassed and had videos and photos taken on different occasions.

Look GM think of it as you like but I'm well aware of the rules and bye laws

Where?
https://www.dublinbus.ie/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/

punisher5112 · 10-08-2019 11:45am

devnull wrote: »

Where?
https://www.dublinbus.ie/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/

Here you all go....

Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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