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Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,683 ✭✭✭ markpb


    Gael23 wrote: »
    God help all the passengers if that bus ever is involved in a crash.

    I’m sure the manufacturers and certification authorities never thought of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    Gael23 wrote: »
    God help all the passengers if that bus ever is involved in a crash.

    db had a gas bus back in 97.

    It had to be filled at the docks so I'm wondering is it the same for this one.

    Meant to be quite safe.

    Seems odd to be trialing again as everything is about ev now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    db had a gas bus back in 97.

    Used to be on the 3


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,619 ✭✭✭ GM228


    db had a gas bus back in 97.

    It had to be filled at the docks so I'm wondering is it the same for this one.

    Meant to be quite safe.

    Seems odd to be trialing again as everything is about ev now.

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0403/951847-natural-gas-powers-dublin-bus/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭ john boye


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Used to be on the 3

    Well really it used to sit abandoned in the corner of Donnybrook. Appearances in service were collector's items


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    john boye wrote: »
    Well really it used to sit abandoned in the corner of Donnybrook. Appearances in service were collector's items

    Very true it had many issues and also so did it's diesel version of the same model.

    They were constantly off the road but some of the 1st low floor buses they ever got.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭ john boye


    Very true it had many issues and also so did it's diesel version of the same model.

    They were constantly off the road but some of the 1st low floor buses they ever got.

    Yes low floor was all new back then but those ultras just weren't very good.

    The gas one really wasn't helped by the going to the docks for juice arrangement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Very true it had many issues and also so did it's diesel version of the same model.

    They were constantly off the road but some of the 1st low floor buses they ever got.

    I remember on the DL locals for a while the 111 being the main one and the short lived 59a after they were relegated from the 3. They used to be some of the lesser routes in Donnybrook such as the 63 for a time aswell afaik.

    It was the same story with the last hybrid they had on the 16 before it was sold in the UK and went up in flames.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭ john boye


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I remember on the DL locals for a while the 111 being the main one and the short lived 59a after they were relegated from the 3. They used to be some of the lesser routes in Donnybrook such as the 63 for a time aswell afaik.

    It was the same story with the last hybrid they had on the 16 before it was sold in the UK and went up in flames.

    They were regulars on the 54A too around that time which is where my disdain for them comes from.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭ AlekSmart


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Are all 3 types hybrid?
    Or does anybody do diesel electric buses (preferably with super capacitors for stop start)

    It is planned that,3 of the 9 vehicles destined for Dublin,(the MMC ADL Enviro 400H's) will feature SuperCapicator storage.

    https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/enviro400h-now-ultra-capacitors/

    Coincidentally,these will be the last to arrive here,with their delivery now due on May/June.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭ AlekSmart


    ITV2 wrote: »
    I believe it is Gas powered.

    There is currently a somewhat unhealthy fixation with Electric/Hybrid technology in relation to the NTA's selection process.

    I would be suggesting that they remove their focus from London for a bit and adopt a broader,dare I say it,more European,view of the market....

    There are some operators,even in the UK,who have not fully bought in to the Electric/Hybrid "Thing" as yet....

    https://cbwmagazine.com/reading-launches-gas-buses-flagship-route-17/

    ;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,399 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    It is planned that,3 of the 9 vehicles destined for Dublin,(the MMC ADL Enviro 400H's) will feature SuperCapicator storage.

    https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/enviro400h-now-ultra-capacitors/

    Coincidentally,these will be the last to arrive here,with their delivery now due on May/June.

    It seems to be more about a hybrid drive as well, rather than pure diesel-electric...
    Its the better acceleration / reuse of deceleration/braking energy, and that systems performance that I'm interested in,
    Not that the extra acceleration is as important in a city bus as it is in a tram or train for eg...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Anyone when these buses are due to enter service?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,523 ✭✭✭ dublinman1990


    Just saw this photo of WH1 in Broadstone. It looks really well.

    10354450_514bf23a4327ad37740382009fd4b49c.jpg?Expires=1556809179&Signature=fN2MmifDXx8ucvyQQUmQ1EJuAdrai1hk9URpHKfpnLfhD49KXfE3OM-9oIAS3VM48Ee4ce-81SsGkfjQ2zPdYgbnY0C2rGaJ~Py5FI9NDntA0qYL0gDfaNQUJitiZp7CJ81YeQ9ybpCvX82NSumfvZpDn---niGhyzh96P9nzDl2O7ErPK1ohWCAsuQDZn~7T2tvvB343a1KPHp1kgF2dshB8z5TMPeEd9r-Mq3NpC1-AdLtkJPodLNBkuNHFRxs6h3b3SjmydDLL5Ux1ZFAEaWSIdGNAZEXab4x0n1JMP1OarKRkUFO3AX5bIGRfDeo2FAr386Sp2Fp2IocW6BHJw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJS72YROXJYGYDADA


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    I believe DB and not the NTA are buying the buses in the trial outright. After the trial has concluded the buses which DB like the most will be bought by the NTA the 3 which DB like the most will be kept and the remaining 6 sold on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭✭ RuleNumber6


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I believe DB and not the NTA are buying the buses in the trial outright. After the trial has concluded the buses which DB like the most will be bought by the NTA the 3 which DB like the most will be kept and the remaining 6 sold on.

    Surely if the NTA are to purchase them, with public money, the procurement will need to go out to tender, and not just be based on an operator preference?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭ AlekSmart


    Just saw this photo of WH1 in Broadstone. It looks really well.

    10354450_514bf23a4327ad37740382009fd4b49c.jpg?Expires=1556809179&Signature=fN2MmifDXx8ucvyQQUmQ1EJuAdrai1hk9URpHKfpnLfhD49KXfE3OM-9oIAS3VM48Ee4ce-81SsGkfjQ2zPdYgbnY0C2rGaJ~Py5FI9NDntA0qYL0gDfaNQUJitiZp7CJ81YeQ9ybpCvX82NSumfvZpDn---niGhyzh96P9nzDl2O7ErPK1ohWCAsuQDZn~7T2tvvB343a1KPHp1kgF2dshB8z5TMPeEd9r-Mq3NpC1-AdLtkJPodLNBkuNHFRxs6h3b3SjmydDLL5Ux1ZFAEaWSIdGNAZEXab4x0n1JMP1OarKRkUFO3AX5bIGRfDeo2FAr386Sp2Fp2IocW6BHJw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJS72YROXJYGYDADA

    Perhaps of more importance,given the speed at which alternative propulsion technology is evolving,is this weeks news from ADL and Allison...

    https://www.allisontransmission.com/en-gb/company/news-article/!details/2019/04/25/allison-transmission-alexander-dennis-collaborate-on-electric-version-of-world-s-best-selling-double-decker-bus
    A first step in this strategic alliance is Allison’s new ABE Series electric powertrain systems for low-floor bus applications, which will premiere with the Foothill Transit launch order for Alexander Dennis’ interurban and commuter Enviro500 3-axle double decker buses in North America. The buses, which have the same footprint as a conventional single-decker bus, can carry up to 86 seated passengers, and provide superior handling and a quiet and smooth zero-emission ride.

    Allisons recent acquisition of Vantage-Power (UK) appears to infer a new direction in it's European/UK alt-propulsion business.

    https://allisontransmission.com/company/news-article/!details/2019/04/23/allison-transmission-acquires-vantage-power-and-axletech-s-electric-vehicle-systems-division

    It remains to be seen if this new thrust will be enough to reduce the dominance of Wrightbus in the greater Irish Bus Scene.

    We are entering what is potentially the most interesting Irish Public Transport era since the Bombardier days :D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    Wright build quality is poor so I do wonder what the competition is like now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,215 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    Bus connects logo on it too...


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    The Chinese have a MASSIVE head start in building EV buses. They are now building 10,000 new EV buses every 6 weeks! That is the size of the London Bus fleet every 6 weeks.

    One saving grace for European bus manufacturers is that the Chinese don't have much experience of Double Deckers, there buses are all single deckers. But it will be interesting to see where this all leads.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    bk wrote: »
    The Chinese have a MASSIVE head start in building EV buses. They are now building 10,000 new EV buses every 6 weeks! That is the size of the London Bus fleet every 6 weeks.

    One saving grace for European bus manufacturers is that the Chinese don't have much experience of Double Deckers, there buses are all single deckers. But it will be interesting to see where this all leads.

    Personally I'd be dubious of the quality of such vehicles. A lot of what's coming out of China sounds to good to be true to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Wright build quality is poor so I do wonder what the competition is like now.

    The EVs which were worse. The older Gemini 1 models from 2001-2010 Wright buses such as the VGs were probably the best built low floor double deckers of all times but were heavier meaning they were a lot heavier on fuel than an ALX400 and worse again compared to an Enviro 400.

    The Enviro 400s were the game changer as they were the first buses to really become more focused on fuel savings and less on build quality and durability. After this Wrights had to become more focused on fuel savings than build quality to compete with ADL with the Gemini 2 and 3. I believe the Enviro 400 MMC is an improvement on the original Enviro 400 build quality wise.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    I have to say, I LOVE the colour scheme on that new Hybrid bus. Much nicer then both the DB and the NTA colour scheme.

    Any chance we can keep it and use it for all buses, both DB and NTA? At least for the new hybrids?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Surely if the NTA are to purchase them, with public money, the procurement will need to go out to tender, and not just be based on an operator preference?

    That's what I would think too but I've heard otherwise according to some. I haven't seen any tender up yet for double decker hybrid buses yet :eek: perhaps someone could post a link if there is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭ Yer Da sells Avon


    bk wrote: »
    I have to say, I LOVE the colour scheme on that new Hybrid bus. Much nicer then both the DB and the NTA colour scheme.

    Any chance we can keep it and use it for all buses, both DB and NTA? At least for the new hybrids?

    It'd be pretty much perfect, not least because the shade of green works nicely with that of the TFI brand.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    bk wrote: »
    I have to say, I LOVE the colour scheme on that new Hybrid bus. Much nicer then both the DB and the NTA colour scheme.

    Any chance we can keep it and use it for all buses, both DB and NTA? At least for the new hybrids?

    Personally I think that yellow and green should never be seen but each to their own :)


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    It'd be pretty much perfect, not least because the shade of green works nicely with that of the TFI brand.

    Yep, I think it is perfect on a number of points:

    - The greens reminds of the old, original, all green DB colour scheme
    - Green indicates Ireland, but not in an overally gaudy way, nicely subtle.
    - Blends well with the yellow which is seemingly needed for disabled people.
    - Could be rolled out to the whole country. The green indicates Ireland. I can tell you now, that the people of Cork will be up in arms once they see the BE red and white being replaced with the NTA colour scheme which looks like Dublin colours. People will be rightfully pissed IMO. This colour scheme would be somewhat less controversial IMO.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    devnull wrote: »
    Personally I think that yellow and green should never be seen but each to their own :)

    Ah Kerry, haha, so maybe the people of Cork would object to it after all :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Reminds me a bit of the old Airlink livery before they changed it to dark green. Probably too much like the DB livery for the NTA to use.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,281 ✭✭✭ .G.


    I can't see any photo , looks like its just me!


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