Hansons Method

shotgunmcos · 28-05-2019 9:48am

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Interested in this, have the race series booked so wondering if that can be incorporated into it.

What dates are the series events and would you be using the beginner or advanced 18 weeks plan?

MonkstownHoop · 28-05-2019 10:52am

shotgunmcos wrote: »

What dates are the series events and would you be using the beginner or advanced 18 weeks plan?

10k 21st July
10M 24th August
Half 21st September

I'll be using the Advanced, looking to better my 3.12 pb

Thanks

Kissy Lips · 28-05-2019 11:17am

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Just compiling who is using Hansons for DCM or the Race Series Half. I'll update this again when we are 18 weeks from DCM

Huzzah!
chickey2 - Half
Kissylips - maybe
Singer - maybe
FBOT01
skyblue46 - Half
Glencarraig
shotgunmcos
bryangiggsy

And a few others reading the book and thinking about it?

If new to the plan then the next few weeks would be building your aerobic base.

Kissy Lips · 28-05-2019 11:25am

Did a test run of the MP + 30 second long run on Sunday. 1 mile warm up. 6 miles @ 7:15. 1 mile warm down. Got through it. Ran too fast. Need to work on pacing. Should be 7:22 per mile.

Can I do the first 10 mile at that pace in four weeks time? Probably.

Going to do a test MP tempo on Thursday. 4 miles at 6:52.

Hanson's Marathon book in the post.

shotgunmcos · 28-05-2019 11:31am

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

10k 21st July
10M 24th August
Half 21st September

I'll be using the Advanced, looking to better my 3.12 pb

Thanks

Hey - Here is the plan based on 3:10. I put in the training paces and Race series dates.

10k - Don't see an issue with it. You will have 5x1,000m intervals the following Tuesday which should be ok, just err on the side of caution if legs are toasted from the 10k.

10m - Same weekend as your 15M LR. LRs are precious in the plan. If doing the 10m on the Saturday then I'd suggest dropping the pace of your LR the next day to the lower end of easy (8:45)

HM - This is the dilemma. You have your 2nd 16m LR on that weekend. Are you willing to give it up for the half marathon? Will you be aiming to race the HM? Personally, I'd drop it if its your first time using the Hansons plan. You will certainly have the cumulative fatigue in your legs already from a 9m tempo (MP) run (13m total) 2 days prior to the Race Series Half and you will risk dropping the 16m LR.

This is actually a key week as you have 3 sessions, 3x 2mile strength, 9m tempo and 16m LR all in a 62m week.

To race the HM you would likely have to drop the 9m Tempo and the 16m LR or do some careful workarounds. Then you have to consider the 2x3m strength session the following Tuesday. Its not far off doing 2x 5k at your HM pace 3 days after doing the HM itself. You risk giving up 3 key workouts for the half marathon. Hence the dilemma....

jaggiebunnet · 28-05-2019 11:47am

Currently reading book but I reckon I am in for DCM

oinkely · 28-05-2019 12:04pm

Plan looks interesting and might be something that I could work in to my schedule.

A few questions that someone may be able to answer readily, though I think I have the book at home so will dig it out this evening.

1) Can the easy runs on Mon and Fri readily be split over two sessions if needed without serious detriment to the plan? I could fit a lot of them into lunch time but as they get longer I would need to split them just to fit them into the day, maybe 10k at lunch and the rest in the evening.

2) I have been running consistently between 50 and 80 km per week since October, a few long runs of up to 33km in there and recently got back to speed work. Did 10*400 @1.30 with 200 slow jog recovery two weeks ago and last week did 200, 400, 600, 800, 800, 600, 400, 200, 200, 200 @ 1.30 per 400 metre so pretty sure i can do the speed work. Where i am at the moment would indicate that i am perhaps a few weeks ahead of the plan for DCM so could i double up/repeat the odd week to allow for hiccups along the way where life wipes out the odd week?

3) I often have Fridays off so could i move the plan to concentrate the long run on friday? The rest of the week suits my schedule, but can see moving just one day wrecking the aim of the plan.

Murph_D · 28-05-2019 3:16pm

oinkely wrote: »

Plan looks interesting and might be something that I could work in to my schedule.

A few questions that someone may be able to answer readily, though I think I have the book at home so will dig it out this evening.

1) Can the easy runs on Mon and Fri readily be split over two sessions if needed without serious detriment to the plan? I could fit a lot of them into lunch time but as they get longer I would need to split them just to fit them into the day, maybe 10k at lunch and the rest in the evening.

2) I have been running consistently between 50 and 80 km per week since October, a few long runs of up to 33km in there and recently got back to speed work. Did 10*400 @1.30 with 200 slow jog recovery two weeks ago and last week did 200, 400, 600, 800, 800, 600, 400, 200, 200, 200 @ 1.30 per 400 metre so pretty sure i can do the speed work. Where i am at the moment would indicate that i am perhaps a few weeks ahead of the plan for DCM so could i double up/repeat the odd week to allow for hiccups along the way where life wipes out the odd week?

3) I often have Fridays off so could i move the plan to concentrate the long run on friday? The rest of the week suits my schedule, but can see moving just one day wrecking the aim of the plan.

1) Thise Mon and Fri runs are only 6/7 miles so if you can manage 10k at lunchtime that would be enough.

2) If you’re ahead of the game fitness wise the odd hiccup in the plan won’t derail you. I’d just start on time and follow along. But up to you - maybe if going on hols or something and you really think you can’t get out.

3) You can’t move LR to an easy day without compromising the other SOS workouts. Bad idea to do the LR the day after your tempo. But you could shift the whole plan a couple days forward so the SOS (non-easy) stuff is Wed/Fri/Sun or Tue/Fri/Sun - ideally speed/strength Sun, tempo Tue, LR Fri. So essentially a Sat-Fri schedule.

shotgunmcos · 28-05-2019 4:15pm

Murph_D wrote: »

. But you could shift the whole plan a couple days forward so the SOS (non-easy) stuff is Wed/Fri/Sun or Tue/Fri/Sun - ideally speed/strength Sun, tempo Tue, LR Fri. So essentially a Sat-Fri schedule.

I had this question on a couple of PMs too. Its a 6 day routine so m-s, t-s, w-t, t-t, all works if you keep the same pattern of easy, sos, easy, sos,, easy, easy, sos(LR)

BUT

you would need to sync it back around the Thurs-Tue pattern a few weeks out from your Marathon (unless the Marathon is not on Sunday)

skyblue46 · 28-05-2019 7:17pm

I've had a think about this and I won't be 'following' the plan for the Amsterdam Half. For me at this point it is overly regimental and changing runs seems to be problematical. This wouldn't be a problem if there was a major goal to be achieved at the end of it all. I decided not to do DCM as I didn't want to be tied religiously to a plan which would prevent me running the races that I'd like to. I will pull quite a lot of the general structure into my training though.

highlandcow · 28-05-2019 8:37pm

I'm a big fan of the Hanson's method. I've done 2 cycles of it, dropping from a 3.08 PB in 2017 to 2.59 in 2018 then 2.52 last month.

It's pretty demanding overall but I've felt very well prepared for my last 2 races. In 2018 I followed the advanced plan laid out in the book, for the last cycle I beefed it as all up a little while following the same 6 day structure ( adding some easy doubles, extra on long runs and pushed the pace on intervals). I topped out just under 130k in my peak week this time round.

In terms of tips for the plan. Consistency really is key with this one. Same structure pretty much week after week. The MP runs sat in the back of my head for a few days before but I always managed my pace. They are tough at times but definitely have you ready for race day. I found the speed work really challenging but it really prepares you well for the tempo like strength work later in the plan.

When I raced usually did so on tired legs then modified the Tuesday run. Worked for me with a few PBs racked up each cycle.

Feel free to fire me a message if you have any questions.

Murph_D · 28-05-2019 10:44pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

I've had a think about this and I won't be 'following' the plan for the Amsterdam Half. For me at this point it is overly regimental and changing runs seems to be problematical. This wouldn't be a problem if there was a major goal to be achieved at the end of it all. I decided not to do DCM as I didn't want to be tied religiously to a plan which would prevent me running the races that I'd like to. I will pull quite a lot of the general structure into my training though.

I wouldn’t say changing runs is a problem. When I did the HM version a couple of years ago I regularly swapped the Tues session for whatever was going on at the club. As long as the pace and volume is broadly comparable, I think it’s always acceptable to do this - preferable, almost, as running sessions in a group is psychologically easier (if you have the discipline to not overcook things). I hear you about the tune up races although on the other hand if the half isn’t a major goal race, so what if you depart from the plan?

Murph_D · 29-05-2019 12:15am

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Hey - Here is the plan based on 3:10. I put in the training paces and Race series dates.

10k - Don't see an issue with it. You will have 5x1,000m intervals the following Tuesday which should be ok, just err on the side of caution if legs are toasted from the 10k.

10m - Same weekend as your 15M LR. LRs are precious in the plan. If doing the 10m on the Saturday then I'd suggest dropping the pace of your LR the next day to the lower end of easy (8:45)

HM - This is the dilemma. You have your 2nd 16m LR on that weekend. Are you willing to give it up for the half marathon? Will you be aiming to race the HM? Personally, I'd drop it if its your first time using the Hansons plan. You will certainly have the cumulative fatigue in your legs already from a 9m tempo (MP) run (13m total) 2 days prior to the Race Series Half and you will risk dropping the 16m LR.

This is actually a key week as you have 3 sessions, 3x 2mile strength, 9m tempo and 16m LR all in a 62m week.

To race the HM you would likely have to drop the 9m Tempo and the 16m LR or do some careful workarounds. Then you have to consider the 2x3m strength session the following Tuesday. Its not far off doing 2x 5k at your HM pace 3 days after doing the HM itself. You risk giving up 3 key workouts for the half marathon. Hence the dilemma....

To add to that, Chapter 5 has some recommendations on when and how to work around races. Generally the advice for a Saturday race is to drop the Thurs tempo, and keep the Sun LR easy, cutting it back by 20 percent if necessary.

denis b · 29-05-2019 8:18am

Hanson Marathon Book ordered for DCM 19. Did Hanson Half Advanced for Mullingar which worked out very well (pb). The last 5 miles were into a significant headwind on the exposed canal etc and this is where I felt the Hanson prep really helped. The legs could manage the additional loading and the head ( probably more important in my case (smiley) benefited.

AuldManKing · 30-05-2019 2:40pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

To race the HM you would likely have to drop the 9m Tempo and the 16m LR or do some careful workarounds. Then you have to consider the 2x3m strength session the following Tuesday. Its not far off doing 2x 5k at your HM pace 3 days after doing the HM itself. You risk giving up 3 key workouts for the half marathon. Hence the dilemma....

The main thing, is to keep the main thing, the main thing.

Be clear on what the 'Main Thing' is.

chickey2 · 31-05-2019 11:53am

I did my first tempo session yesterday. It was a 5k (3 mile) with warm up and cool down. I found it tough doing the full 5 k at that speed (especially in this horrible muggy heat).

In the P&L plan I did before, the tempos start as splits so the first one is 14 mins tempo, 4 min jog, 12 mins tempo. I found these easier despite the same amount of time at similar pace. Does anyone know what impact a 4 min jog in the middle makes?

Huzzah! · 31-05-2019 1:38pm

chickey2 wrote: »

I did my first tempo session yesterday. It was a 5k (3 mile) with warm up and cool down. I found it tough doing the full 5 k at that speed (especially in this horrible muggy heat).

In the P&L plan I did before, the tempos start as splits so the first one is 14 mins tempo, 4 min jog, 12 mins tempo. I found these easier despite the same amount of time at similar pace. Does anyone know what impact a 4 min jog in the middle makes?

Struggling to remember P+L now, but are they not quite different sessions? P+L being LT runs and HMM being pace runs?

I'm not sure about breaking the tempo runs up, tbh. The guidance seems to be that if you can't complete the SOS, your pace might be a bit hot. I will say that the half tempo runs were TOUGH.

BeepBeep67 · 31-05-2019 3:31pm

chickey2 wrote: »

I did my first tempo session yesterday. It was a 5k (3 mile) with warm up and cool down. I found it tough doing the full 5 k at that speed (especially in this horrible muggy heat).

In the P&L plan I did before, the tempos start as splits so the first one is 14 mins tempo, 4 min jog, 12 mins tempo. I found these easier despite the same amount of time at similar pace. Does anyone know what impact a 4 min jog in the middle makes?

Back off the pace a little (5-10secs), it will become more achieveable as your training progresses and you fitness improves.
Are you basing your tempo pace off a recent race, or an aspirational marathon goal?

Kissy Lips · 31-05-2019 4:40pm

Got the book. Powering through it now.

Tested out the tempo last evening. 1.5 mile warm up/down. Then a 5 mile tempo. The goal was 6:52 per mile.

6:56
6:54
6:50
6:51
6:47

Works out at 6:52 average. The run was testing but do-able. Enjoyed it actually. Weather was nice.

chickey2 · 31-05-2019 7:30pm

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Back off the pace a little (5-10secs), it will become more achieveable as your training progresses and you fitness improves.
Are you basing your tempo pace off a recent race, or an aspirational marathon goal?

I'm following the half plan so the tempo is half marathon pace.

I'm basing it off a goal of 1:45 which is just an even number slightly less than my pb (1:48). My recent 5k time is 23:26 which gives a predicted half of 1:48. I hadn't done much training for the 5k though and I've no other longer races recently. I think I'll keep going with the goal of 1:45 and see how I get on with the tempos. I managed to keep the pace but found it tough. I think it's supposed to be though! I've signed up for the race series 10k so if I can do that in less than 48 then a 1:45 half is realistic.

It's hard to pick a goal that's challenging but realistic.

Swashbuckler · 31-05-2019 8:01pm

chickey2 wrote:

I'm basing it off a goal of 1:45 which is just an even number slightly less than my pb (1:48). My recent 5k time is 23:26 which gives a predicted half of 1:48. I hadn't done much training for the 5k though and I've no other longer races recently. I think I'll keep going with the goal of 1:45 and see how I get on with the tempos. I managed to keep the pace but found it tough. I think it's supposed to be though! I've signed up for the race series 10k so if I can do that in less than 48 then a 1:45 half is realistic.

Honestly I think you should be training to current fitness and not goal fitness.

I'd also say that a HM effort (not pace) session over 5k should be reasonably manageable so you probably need to dial back a bit for now anyway.

I'd also be a little worried with some of those tempo runs in the plan. Some people will end up running ridiculously long (in terms of time) HM paced sessions.

chickey2 · 31-05-2019 8:21pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Honestly I think you should be training to current fitness and not goal fitness.

I'd also say that a HM effort (not pace) session over 5k should be reasonably manageable so you probably need to dial back a bit for now anyway.

I'd also be a little worried with some of those tempo runs in the plan. Some people will end up running ridiculously long (in terms of time) HM paced sessions.

Yeah you're right. I guess I was disappointed that my predicted time was exactly the same as my pb and all I want to do is beat it! Better to be realistic though than run myself into the ground.

That's an interesting point about the time running tempo on the half plan especially for slower runners. The longest tempo is 7 miles. At my goal pace of 8 min/mile that's 56 minutes of tempo (not including wu/cd). The P&L plan on the other hand has all the runs in time rather than distance.

I've just had another look at the book. It does say the tempo runs will decide whether you've selected the right goal! I did manage to keep the pace though and it was very warm and muggy....Maybe I'll see how next week's tempo goes.

Swashbuckler · 31-05-2019 8:39pm

chickey2 wrote:

I've just had another look at the book. It does say the tempo runs will decide whether you've selected the right goal! I did manage to keep the pace though and it was very warm and muggy....Maybe I'll see how next week's tempo goes.

chickey2 wrote:

Yeah you're right. I guess I was disappointed that my predicted time was exactly the same as my pb and all I want to do is beat it! Better to be realistic though than run myself into the ground.

Training to current fitness will very likely leave you in a position to beat it. Have faith! Train smart and run yourself into the ground on race day

chickey2 wrote:

That's an interesting point about the time running tempo on the half plan especially for slower runners. The longest tempo is 7 miles. At my goal pace of 8 min/mile that's 56 minutes of tempo (not including wu/cd). The P&L plan on the other hand has all the runs in time rather than distance.

Yep everything about that makes me feel uncomfortable but others might disagree. 56 mins of HM effort is a huge effort in my opinion. That being said I haven't read the book so I'm not really in a position to comment.

chickey2 wrote:

I've just had another look at the book. It does say the tempo runs will decide whether you've selected the right goal! I did manage to keep the pace though and it was very warm and muggy....Maybe I'll see how next week's tempo goes.

The only thing I'd say here is "managing to keep pace" to me sound more than tempo effort. But tempo as I know it and tempo as Hansen defines could be two very different things.

Murph_D · 01-06-2019 1:03am

You can't compare Pfitzinger tempo (LT) with Hanson tempo (race pace) - unless your goal race time is about an hour, in which case they will be about the same!

Absolutely train to current fitness. 3 min faster than 'predicted MP' is too much. C, you'd be far better off dialing down on the paces - extrapolate 1:48 pace from somewhere between whatever is suggested for 1:45 and 1:50.

As to worrying about length of race pace ('tempo') runs - it doesn't go beyond a little over half the race distance (if I remember accurately), which is tough but manageable, when you get to that advanced stage of the schedule.

Again 'tempo' is a relative term. Hanson 'tempo' just means race pace, so not a particularly difficult pace to maintain (psychologically) in the context of a plan with lengthy faster speed/strength sessions built in. Don't get me wrong though - those longer tempo sessions will beat the crap out of you when they happen. But you'll be ready.

The amount of running at goal pace is one of the distinguishing features of Hanson. I did a Pfitzinger HM plan the year before I tried the Hanson method - the Pfitzinger plan had, as far as I remember, only 2 miles of HMP running, and that was in the final week. Both methods worked out well for me but I found the Hanson version more effective (and perhaps more technically advanced).

FBOT01 · 03-06-2019 10:43am

Been a while since I read Hanson so I may be wrong but my understanding is that the tempo/race pace runs are about teaching your body what it feels like to run at race pace rather than running at perceived race effort and figuring out later what that means for pace.

If the chosen target race pace makes the "tempo" too tough then you have the wrong target.

I know people who have tweaked things by cutting them 10/15s slack in the tempo run during the first couple of weeks and waiting until the start of the strength phase to fully committ to target pace and then finished out the rest of the plan and ran the race at the revised target.

shotgunmcos · 03-06-2019 1:34pm

Hansons Tempo is MP. You do it from the start. The pace should feel "easier" by the time you get to the strength phase but you are running 50% more volume of that tempo, your mileage has increased 20% and you have fatigue in your legs.

If you cannot sustain the tempo pace then you probably need to consider a different target.

The objective of the session is to dial the pace (not the effort) into the legs, on tired legs. Making it easier by 10-15secs for the first 10 weeks is counter intuitive IMO and speeding up by 10 secs when the tempo run hits 9m is asking for it.

It was only on the day rested and fuelled up did that pace feel easy, at east for the first hour

FBOT01 · 03-06-2019 8:50pm

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Hansons Tempo is MP. You do it from the start. The pace should feel "easier" by the time you get to the strength phase but you are running 50% more volume of that tempo, your mileage has increased 20% and you have fatigue in your legs.

If you cannot sustain the tempo pace then you probably need to consider a different target.

The objective of the session is to dial the pace (not the effort) into the legs, on tired legs. Making it easier by 10-15secs for the first 10 weeks is counter intuitive IMO and speeding up by 10 secs when the tempo run hits 9m is asking for it.

It was only on the day rested and fuelled up did that pace feel easy, at east for the first hour

Won't disagree with you as I did it by the book from day one and nailed my colours to the mast from the beginning in terms of target pace. At the same I have seen the more conservative option of allowing a small amount of goal creep work too.....I stress a SMALL amount of goal creep and probably more like when the tempo was moving to 7 or 8 rather than as late as 9.

Huzzah! · 05-06-2019 5:54pm

This is a more novice question, but how do you settle on your target pace? I haven't raced longer than five miles this year and I'm finding it tricky to decide on a PMP. I trained last year with a 4:30 target (based on a HM of 2:08) but ended up deciding to aim for a more conservative time on the day of 4:40. I'm wondering if 4:30 is a good aim for DCM. I would like to race in the build up to DCM but don't think it's feasible at this point.

Murph_D · 05-06-2019 8:14pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

This is a more novice question, but how do you settle on your target pace? I haven't raced longer than five miles this year and I'm finding it tricky to decide on a PMP. I trained last year with a 4:30 target (based on a HM of 2:08) but ended up deciding to aim for a more conservative time on the day of 4:40. I'm wondering if 4:30 is a good aim for DCM. I would like to race in the build up to DCM but don't think it's feasible at this point.

It’s a stretch - but what time does your 5-mile suggest? A lot of the Hanson paces are based off 5k time as it happens. Some people feel differently about this, but I think you should base training paces off your fastest relative achievement - because that’s the best judgement of your potential. If you had a recent 10m or HM you’d have a better idea if your actual endurance - but the fact is your best race time is the best correlation to your actual VO2Max, LT etc, and PMP is always related to that. Be ambitious!

(Caveat - my own best VDOT correlates to a MP that’s far below 3 hours, and that’s just ridiculous, so I’d exclude race times below 5k if they tell you anything different).

Huzzah! · 06-06-2019 9:15am

Murph_D wrote: »

It’s a stretch - but what time does your 5-mile suggest? A lot of the Hanson paces are based off 5k time as it happens. Some people feel differently about this, but I think you should base training paces off your fastest relative achievement - because that’s the best judgement of your potential. If you had a recent 10m or HM you’d have a better idea if your actual endurance - but the fact is your best race time is the best correlation to your actual VO2Max, LT etc, and PMP is always related to that. Be ambitious!

(Caveat - my own best VDOT correlates to a MP that’s far below 3 hours, and that’s just ridiculous, so I’d exclude race times below 5k if they tell you anything different).

It gives me 4:20 approx which would equate to the paces I trained at using the half plan early last year. Might try it and see. I'll either be able for the tempo runs or I won't. Thanks.

ariana` · 10-06-2019 3:33pm

Great thread, i've been following and i finally managed to read through a good section of the HHMM book over the weekend.

Question - has anyone jumped into one of the plans a few weeks in? Situation is i will have 13 weeks to train for a HM, i'm thinking if i skip the first 4 weeks and the last week of the strength (week 16) also. I'm already doing the mileage required for week 5 (beginner plan) so that's not a concern for me. I expect the result to be compromised, I could even possibly get a better result if i choose a different 12-14 plan but i'm keen to get a taste of Hanson and consider it an opportune time to do that without the risk involved in dedicating myself to it for 18 weeks of a marathon cycle. The HM is a goal race i suppose or at least it was at the start of the year but the year got off to a pretty poor start for 2-3 months so I'm just enjoying running and racing now and anything else is a bonus. So really what i hope to discover is if i enjoy training the Hanson way or not (and of course a small PB would be nice too!).

Opinions welcome, tia

Huzzah! · 11-06-2019 11:40am

ariana` wrote: »

Great thread, i've been following and i finally managed to read through a good section of the HHMM book over the weekend.

Question - has anyone jumped into one of the plans a few weeks in? Situation is i will have 13 weeks to train for a HM, i'm thinking if i skip the first 4 weeks and the last week of the strength (week 16) also. I'm already doing the mileage required for week 5 (beginner plan) so that's not a concern for me. I expect the result to be compromised, I could even possibly get a better result if i choose a different 12-14 plan but i'm keen to get a taste of Hanson and consider it an opportune time to do that without the risk involved in dedicating myself to it for 18 weeks of a marathon cycle. The HM is a goal race i suppose or at least it was at the start of the year but the year got off to a pretty poor start for 2-3 months so I'm just enjoying running and racing now and anything else is a bonus. So really what i hope to discover is if i enjoy training the Hanson way or not (and of course a small PB would be nice too!).

Opinions welcome, tia

If you're planning on following the Beginner plan, then, imho, there's no issue with skipping the first four or five weeks as they're all just easy miles and you've a plenty good base. I don't see it as being a compromise at all.

The way I see it is the mileage in the last 12 weeks of the beginner plan is similar, if not a bit higher, to the FRR half plan, so it should achieve good results.

I do have a 12 week Hanson plan if you'd prefer that?

ariana` · 11-06-2019 12:10pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

If you're planning on following the Beginner plan, then, imho, there's no issue with skipping the first four or five weeks as they're all just easy miles and you've a plenty good base. I don't see it as being a compromise at all.

The way I see it is the mileage in the last 12 weeks of the beginner plan is similar, if not a bit higher, to the FRR half plan, so it should achieve good results.

I do have a 12 week Hanson plan if you'd prefer that?

Thank E. And I'd love a look at the 12 week plan if you don't mind

ANXIOUS · 11-06-2019 1:20pm

ariana` wrote: »

Thank E. And I'd love a look at the 12 week plan if you don't mind

Yes, woukd be very interested also. Thanks

rooneyjm · 12-06-2019 11:07pm

Another craic at sub 3 using the HM. First time I used it I got from 3.23 to 3.10. Last yr I trained for sub 3 but bottled it on the day and settled for a pb 3.05. Week holiday in the middle of the plan didn’t help. Think I’m heading to Amsterdam as I’m not around for DCM this yr.

Did Manchester in April with some of the HM sessions but not as much training as for Berlin, found it hard to do the speed and tempo work in the dark. Came in 3.09 with a negative split so happy enough.

This time around I’m going to try keep my LSR just below 8.00 min miles. That will be down from 8.10-8.20 or slower depending on how tired I was feeling. Also going to get my weight right. Hopefully that will get me over the sub 3 line. Main holiday out of the way already so no excuses there.

FBOT01 · 12-06-2019 11:40pm

rooneyjm wrote: »

Another craic at sub 3 using the HM. First time I used it I got from 3.23 to 3.10. Last yr I trained for sub 3 but bottled it on the day and settled for a pb 3.05. Week holiday in the middle of the plan didn’t help. Think I’m heading to Amsterdam as I’m not around for DCM this yr.

Did Manchester in April with some of the HM sessions but not as much training as for Berlin, found it hard to do the speed and tempo work in the dark. Came in 3.09 with a negative split so happy enough.

This time around I’m going to try keep my LSR just below 8.00 min miles. That will be down from 8.10-8.20 or slower depending on how tired I was feeling. Also going to get my weight right. Hopefully that will get me over the sub 3 line. Main holiday out of the way already so no excuses there.

Best of luck with your sub 3 attempt. One small point if you have to focus on anything focus on sticking to the plan and getting the core sessions days right. Nothing wrong with going with feel if you are tried on an LR day as long as you stay within the range and if it means you are in better shape to get the next session done right then that is the important thing. A few secs a mile on a standard LR won't be the making or breaking of you. Not nailing the sessions would have a far greater effect IMHO.

rooneyjm · 13-06-2019 4:54pm

FBOT01 wrote: »

Best of luck with your sub 3 attempt. One small point if you have to focus on anything focus on sticking to the plan and getting the core sessions days right. Nothing wrong with going with feel if you are tried on an LR day as long as you stay within the range and if it means you are in better shape to get the next session done right then that is the important thing. A few secs a mile on a standard LR won't be the making or breaking of you. Not nailing the sessions would have a far greater effect IMHO.

I was fairly good at hitting the sessions last time out. Was tracking at 3.03 until mile 24 so I don't think I need to change too much. Hopefully just a tweek here and there and back myself on the day.

One thing I noticed was the Wednesday off really helped hitting the tempo paces in the latter stages of the plan. The weeks where I had to move things around and had to do an easy run the day before the tempo session I noticed a difference, ie harder to hit the 6.50pace.

Did Mullingar 10mile in July last year instead of the tempo session that week. Good race. Also the previous year I did Dublin Half but used it as a Marathon Pace session. Some might think what's the point but can use it as a marathon day race prep and having to be disciplined to hold the MP.

shotgunmcos · 14-06-2019 11:44am

rooneyjm wrote: »

Another craic at sub 3 using the HM.......

This time around I’m going to try keep my LSR just below 8.00 min miles. That will be down from 8.10-8.20 or slower depending on how tired I was feeling. Also going to get my weight right. Hopefully that will get me over the sub 3 line. Main holiday out of the way already so no excuses there.

That is too slow for the method if you are aiming for sub 3. Its not a LSR its a LR. The pace prescribed would be closer to 7:25-7:30 for LRs. The objective of them is make them feel more like the last 16 miles of the marathon that the first 16m. Treat the LR as a SOS rather than a LSR.

You get to the LR tired but cumulative fatigue is the principle of the plan. I found that the fast paced LR on already tired legs really stood to me at the business end of the marathon

KSU · 14-06-2019 2:16pm

Came across this today I figured it might help people get a bit of context around the training philosophy and methodology of this approach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBuBii-Dc9Q

ToriV · 16-06-2019 11:46am

Great thread! Very interesting approach and I'm also going to use it for a half marathon attempt. I have the 18 week plan but id love to see the 12 week one that was mentioned above if you get a chance.

What is the main difference between them - less base building weeks?? Thanks!

digiman · 16-06-2019 7:17pm

Which version of the book have people bought?

Glencarraig · 16-06-2019 8:04pm

digiman wrote: »

Which version of the book have people bought?

2nd Edition

digiman · 17-06-2019 9:13am

Glencarraig wrote: »

2nd Edition

Thanks, bought it for kindle last night and read the first chapter. I'm coming from a base where the most I've ran this year is 52km in a week and I'm just under 700km for the year so the distance is probably way too much for me.

I ran a sub21 park run a couple of weeks ago and have done 3 marathons in the past with 2 Dublins. One was 3:59:xx and last one was 3:57:xx but I did minimal training for both.

I think I've a sub 3:30 in me, 85kg and 5ft 9 which is one problem I need to address but if I was to do the mileage on the plan that would quick fall off I'd say. But concerned that the mileage is such a step up that I'd injure myself. Have a week to decide, any thoughts?

shotgunmcos · 17-06-2019 11:18am

digiman wrote: »

I think I've a sub 3:30 in me, 85kg and 5ft 9 which is one problem I need to address but if I was to do the mileage on the plan that would quick fall off I'd say. But concerned that the mileage is such a step up that I'd injure myself. Have a week to decide, any thoughts?

More than likely if you are training consistently to the plan then then you will gain strength and become a leaner fitter version of yourself

The mileage on the plan is mostly easy miles. If you treat them as easy miles and run them easy then you are mitigation the risk of injury. The work sessions (SOS - Session of Substance) are progressive and build every 3 weeks along with the general fatigue. I didn't have the base of miles coming into the plan that I wanted. I was around 30m or 50km a week

The main thing I found with the plan is managing the fatigue. By week 3 or 4 you will get into a good rhythm of consistent training and momentum to get you by day to day. You will have a feel for the format of the plan. I found no problem with motivating myself to get out and do the sessions and I like how each week was similar to the last one. I kept the work sessions more or less to planned paces and address fatigue on the easy runs. What actually happened was I slowed Monday runs to a recovery pace.

Its not an easy plan but its very doable. You have to sign up to doing 6 runs a week and consistently doing so, brick by brick by brick. If you don't do at least that, you are kidding yourself.

chickey2 · 17-06-2019 11:53am

digiman wrote: »

Thanks, bought it for kindle last night and read the first chapter. I'm coming from a base where the most I've ran this year is 52km in a week and I'm just under 700km for the year so the distance is probably way too much for me.

I ran a sub21 park run a couple of weeks ago and have done 3 marathons in the past with 2 Dublins. One was 3:59:xx and last one was 3:57:xx but I did minimal training for both.

I think I've a sub 3:30 in me, 85kg and 5ft 9 which is one problem I need to address but if I was to do the mileage on the plan that would quick fall off I'd say. But concerned that the mileage is such a step up that I'd injure myself. Have a week to decide, any thoughts?

I agree with shotgunmcos, it's tough but doable. Once you keep your easy runs easy and stick to the speed paces you'll gradually build up the milage without injury.
I'm on week 5 of the half plan and running way more than I usually do. I'm tired but not overly so and I'm still hitting the paces. I though people were joking that it's easier to run 6-7 days a week than 3-4 but I'm starting to think it's true! Because you know you can't swap sessions as easily you know you just have to make time to run each day so there's less procrastination.

Murph_D · 17-06-2019 12:08pm

digiman wrote: »

Thanks, bought it for kindle last night and read the first chapter. I'm coming from a base where the most I've ran this year is 52km in a week and I'm just under 700km for the year so the distance is probably way too much for me.

I ran a sub21 park run a couple of weeks ago and have done 3 marathons in the past with 2 Dublins. One was 3:59:xx and last one was 3:57:xx but I did minimal training for both.

I think I've a sub 3:30 in me, 85kg and 5ft 9 which is one problem I need to address but if I was to do the mileage on the plan that would quick fall off I'd say. But concerned that the mileage is such a step up that I'd injure myself. Have a week to decide, any thoughts?

Which version of the plan are you thinking of doing? I think it's important to have the recommended base mileage before tackling any version of the plan, certainly the advanced version.

digiman · 17-06-2019 1:09pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Which version of the plan are you thinking of doing? I think it's important to have the recommended base mileage before tackling any version of the plan, certainly the advanced version.

Just started reading the book last night but by the end of my commute home this evening I hope to be able to answer that question!

rooneyjm · 17-06-2019 4:39pm

digiman wrote: »

Murph_D wrote: »

Which version of the plan are you thinking of doing? I think it's important to have the recommended base mileage before tackling any version of the plan, certainly the advanced version.

Just started reading the book last night but by the end of my commute home this evening I hope to be able to answer that question!

Go for it. Even if you don’t nail every session the fact you are running 6 days you will come on and pb

Huzzah! · 18-06-2019 8:15am

ToriV wrote: »

Great thread! Very interesting approach and I'm also going to use it for a half marathon attempt. I have the 18 week plan but id love to see the 12 week one that was mentioned above if you get a chance.

What is the main difference between them - less base building weeks?? Thanks!

I wasn’t able to find it, sorry. Plenty of alternative options here: https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/training-programs/

Luke Humphrey used to work for the Hanson brothers and wrote the books.

digiman · 19-06-2019 10:27pm

About 40% of the way through the book and going to follow the advanced plan for the first 5 weeks and will move to the beginner plan at that stage if I can't keep up with the advanced one as that's when things really step up. I'm already doing a speed session and a tempo run every week so it shouldn't be too hard to keep up until week 5.

Hansons Method

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