"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Nerdlingr · 22-05-2019 1:51am

2ndcoming wrote: »

One thing we can be glad about now that it's over, is never hearing this idiotic argument again.

The royal we. I'm sure you speak for all.
Thank you for your input. Riveting stuff.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 10:29am

Currently away in China with work so only got to see it yesterday.

I know we've all been bitching and complaining about the entire series and I know we all made jokes about D&D directing the last episode but, really like, that was a complete ****ing travesty of an episode to round off a complete ****ing travesty of a season.

The fact that R+L=J meant nothing, absolutely nothing in the overall scheme of things. If that's GRRM's plan for the story in the books, having set it up from 25 years, I'll be very mad.

Just absolute ****ing nonsense throughout. I have so many questions about things but the one I'm really interested in is what happened to shadowfax.

....... · 22-05-2019 10:34am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

The fact that R+L=J meant nothing, absolutely nothing in the overall scheme of things. If that's GRRM's plan for the story in the books, having set it up from 25 years, I'll rape his ****ing corpse.

Surely the purpose of that was for Jon to be the one who threatened Danerys destiny and send her over the edge into Mad Queen mode?

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 10:40am

....... wrote: »

Surely the purpose of that was for Jon to be the one who threatened Danerys destiny and send her over the edge into Mad Queen mode?

That's it? Really? The single biggest detail, teased for literally decades in the books about, potentially, their most important character is to serve as plot device to explain or excuse the motivations of another character?

Anyone sated or satisfied with that needs higher standards.

The one good moment, and I mean that in the literal sense of single, solitary moment, was how tender Drogon was with Dany's body. Quite touching actually and an impressive achievement to really humanise the sense of loss of a CGI dragon.

Tazzimus · 22-05-2019 10:51am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

The one good moment, and I mean that in the literal sense of single, solitary moment, was how tender Drogon was with Dany's body. Quite touching actually and an impressive achievement to really humanise the sense of loss of a CGI dragon.

Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei was fantastically acted I thought.
Dinklage carried that episode.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 11:01am

Tazzimus wrote: »

Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei was fantastically acted I thought.
Dinklage carried that episode.

True, but, for me, him finding the hand was just one of a whole host of anything little contrivances throughout the episode.

Why was Drogon hidden buried beneath a big pile of ash, snow and rubble? Because he looked awesome waking up from it.

Why was it suddenly snowing in KL? Because Dany looks awesome against the white. I'd be pretty confident that her vision of KL back in Qarth in S2 was snow rather than ash and they tried to retrofit it to the mad Queen angle once they decided to do that direction. Everyone has been talking about how the mad Queen theory has been played about for years. ABOUT CERSEI FFS.

Why was there a whole deal last week about Ghost (poor, poor neglected Ghost) going north only to get reunited with Jon the following week? There's just been so many gaps in continuity and consistency.

....... · 22-05-2019 11:05am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Anyone sated or satisfied with that needs higher standards.

I didnt realise you were the standards police!

Tazzimus · 22-05-2019 11:18am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

True, but, for me, him finding the hand was just one of a whole host of anything little contrivances throughout the episode.

Why was Drogon hidden buried beneath a big pile of ash, snow and rubble? Because he looked awesome waking up from it.

Why was it suddenly snowing in KL? Because Dany looks awesome against the white. I'd be pretty confident that her vision of KL back in Qarth in S2 was snow rather than ash and they tried to retrofit it to the mad Queen angle once they decided to do that direction. Everyone has been talking about how the mad Queen theory has been played about for years. ABOUT CERSEI FFS.

Why was there a whole deal last week about Ghost (poor, poor neglected Ghost) going north only to get reunited with Jon the following week? There's just been so many gaps in continuity and consistency.

True, finding them in that one pile of rock was a bit stupid. Scene played out well after that part though.

The rest was just cool looking shots, something the show isn't exactly about; Drogon under the snow/ash like you said, spreading his wings behind Dany etc.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 11:24am

....... wrote: »

I didnt realise you were the standards police!

Ok, if you're content that R+L=J and everything behind it and all the years of hints and tips as to its meaning and significance (you know, that THERE WAS A TRUEBORN SON OF RHAEGAR TARGARYEN WITH A RIGHTFUL CLAIM TO THE IRON THRONE WHO ALSO HAPPENED TO BE A SON OF LYANNA STARK AND WAS, THEREFORE, ICE AND FIRE AS ONE) was all simply motivation for Dany to barbecue people, that's great. I'm not.

....... · 22-05-2019 11:26am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Ok, if you're content that R+L=J and everything behind it and all the years of hints and tips as to its meaning and significance (you know, that THERE WAS A TRUEBORN SON OF RHAEGAR TARGARYEN WITH A RIGHTFUL CLAIM TO THE IRON THRONE WHO ALSO HAPPENED TO BE A SOON OF LYANNA STARK AND WAS, THEREFORE, ICE AND FIRE AS ONE) was all simply motivation for Dany to barbecue people, that's great. I'm not.

You seem to be missing the deeper meaning there. But youre too aggressive to bother discussing with.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 11:35am

....... wrote: »

You seem to be missing the deeper meaning there. But youre too aggressive to bother discussing with.

I'm missing the deeper meaning? Really?

You're the one who thinks "oh Dany was tipped over the edge by her perception of Jon as a threat" and thinks that that's a satisfactory conclusion to one of the biggest open secret plot lines of the last 25 years of popular fiction.

....... · 22-05-2019 11:48am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I'm missing the deeper meaning? Really?

You're the one who thinks "oh Dany was tipped over the edge by her perception of Jon as a threat" and thinks that that's a satisfactory conclusion to one of the biggest open secret plot lines of the last 25 years of popular fiction.

Yeah whatever............

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 11:50am

....... wrote: »

Yeah whatever............

A thoroughly engaging debate.

Go on, please tell me what you find "deep" about what they did with it?

....... · 22-05-2019 11:52am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

A thoroughly engaging debate.

Go on, please tell me what you find "deep" about what they did with it?

Youre just embarrassing yourself now.

Do go away please.

PirateShampoo · 22-05-2019 12:25pm

....... wrote: »

Youre just embarrassing yourself now.

Do go away please.

Your just being obnoxious, he's right though. The who Jon is a Targ meant nothing. They could have cut the whole North out of the series and we would still ended up at the burning of Kingslanding. Literally nothing changed in Westoros from plot to what we got in the final. We had a little shuffle about during the middle part but everything is back to the way it was.

Yermande · 22-05-2019 12:25pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei was fantastically acted I thought.
Dinklage carried that episode.

Yeah that was impressive and probably my first real sight of what so many others seem to see in Dinklage, because I don't think he's been a particularly standout performer. I found his accent constantly distracting. What a role to land though and he certainly made the most of it. More power to him.

....... · 22-05-2019 12:33pm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Your just being obnoxious, he's right though.

No. In fact I am not the obnoxious poster here.

I offered an opinion that was met with a "hurr hurr you have no standards" which I responded to with a light comment about the standards police. This was met with an aggressive CAPS LOCK comment again making out that there was something wrong with ME for being content with the storyline (note - I never once claimed I was content but anyway....). At this point I just decided the poster wasnt worth engaging with and told them so. Which they AGAIN met with a snarky comment and indicated with the use of quotes that they found my comment about a deeper meaning laughable. A comment that I havent even given any detail about!

In short, the poster was acting like a know it all child. So if you think that makes me the obnoxious person in that exchange - cool! But I think its clear to most people where the obnoxious behaviour is.

NomadicGray · 22-05-2019 12:45pm

....... wrote: »

No. In fact I am not the obnoxious poster here.

I offered an opinion that was met with a "hurr hurr you have no standards" which I responded to with a light comment about the standards police. This was met with an aggressive CAPS LOCK comment again making out that there was something wrong with ME for being content with the storyline (note - I never once claimed I was content but anyway....). At this point I just decided the poster wasnt worth engaging with and told them so. Which they AGAIN met with a snarky comment and indicated with the use of quotes that they found my comment about a deeper meaning laughable. A comment that I havent even given any detail about!

In short, the poster was acting like a know it all child. So if you think that makes me the obnoxious person in that exchange - cool! But I think its clear to most people where the obnoxious behaviour is.

Youre just embarrassing yourself now.

Yermande · 22-05-2019 12:56pm

Lads will you both just move on from this please. It's going nowhere.

tuathal07 · 22-05-2019 1:08pm

Yermande wrote: »

Lads will you both just move on from this please. It's going nowhere.

I wish somebody had said this in the writing room

iLikeWaffles · 22-05-2019 1:12pm

tuathal07 wrote: »

I wish somebody had said this in the writing room

It was probably said far too many times!

Foxtrol · 22-05-2019 2:25pm

tuathal07 wrote: »

I wish somebody had said this in the writing room

Should have been said more to GRRM than anyone else. I'm sure when D&D were starting the show he didn't tell them he'd make square root of f-all progress in the core material and that they wouldn't have had to do all the leg work in contracting the world into an ending.

Foxtrol · 22-05-2019 2:32pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Ok, if you're content that R+L=J and everything behind it and all the years of hints and tips as to its meaning and significance (you know, that THERE WAS A TRUEBORN SON OF RHAEGAR TARGARYEN WITH A RIGHTFUL CLAIM TO THE IRON THRONE WHO ALSO HAPPENED TO BE A SON OF LYANNA STARK AND WAS, THEREFORE, ICE AND FIRE AS ONE) was all simply motivation for Dany to barbecue people, that's great. I'm not.

That's the problem with fans twisting themselves in knots with theories and putting them on a pedestal. It makes them seem much more important than they may actually be, despite this specific case having a rather large impact on the show itself.

s7ryf3925pivug · 22-05-2019 2:47pm

It wasn't snowing. It was floating ash. It was the vision she had in season 2, when it was taken to be snow.

Dany has consistently been inclined to slaughter her enemies since the very start. We just didn't notice too much when they were horrific people and her actions were curtailed by cooler heads. Tyrion actually explained this in the last episode. It wasn't so much a tipping point as her showing her true colours.

TerrorFirmer · 22-05-2019 2:55pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Should have been said more to GRRM than anyone else. I'm sure when D&D were starting the show he didn't tell them he'd make square root of f-all progress in the core material and that they wouldn't have had to do all the leg work in contracting the world into an ending.

That's not remotely a valid excuse either; these guys are paid a ton of money to write Game of Thrones and it's completely reasonable to expect a lot better.

GRRM gave them an outline to work from. If he had the books written, then inevitably the final season would've been much better granted, but there is no excuse for how bad the scripting and dialogue has been this season.

That is entirely on them. If they felt they weren't up to the task without GRRM's book material to draw their scripting and dialogue from, they should have assembled a writing staff.

But they didn't, and the episodes of S8 they wrote (E03-E06) are riddled with scripting issues - inconsistencies, illogical behaviors, pacing, poor dialogue, etc.

Brian Cogman's "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" is miles ahead of any of their episodes in that department.

We've seen this before when George Lucas was given total creative autonomy on the Star Wars prequels. Plagued by very similar scripting issues.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 2:59pm

Valentino Mammoth Orchestra wrote: »

It wasn't snowing. It was floating ash. It was the vision she had in season 2, when it was taken to be snow.

Dany has consistently been inclined to slaughter her enemies since the very start. We just didn't notice too much when they were horrific people and her actions were curtailed by cooler heads. Tyrion actually explained this in the last episode. It wasn't so much a tipping point as her showing her true colours.

It was snowing. When Jon is laying her down on the ground after he stabs her, it's clearly snow, not ash.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 3:01pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's the problem with fans twisting themselves in knots with theories and putting them on a pedestal. It makes them seem much more important than they may actually be, despite this specific case having a rather large impact on the show itself.

This specific theory is fundamental to the lore though. Martin used it to test D&D when they first approached him about doing the show by asking them who Jon Snow's mother was. Jon is one of the two or three most central characters and how unknown ancestry is huge.

Foxtrol · 22-05-2019 3:48pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That's not remotely a valid excuse either; these guys are paid a ton of money to write Game of Thrones and it's completely reasonable to expect a lot better.

GRRM gave them an outline to work from. If he had the books written, then inevitably the final season would've been much better granted, but there is no excuse for how bad the scripting and dialogue has been this season.

That is entirely on them. If they felt they weren't up to the task without GRRM's book material to draw their scripting and dialogue from, they should have assembled a writing staff.

But they didn't, and the episodes of S8 they wrote (E03-E06) are riddled with scripting issues - inconsistencies, illogical behaviors, pacing, poor dialogue, etc.

Brian Cogman's "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" is miles ahead of any of their episodes in that department.

We've seen this before when George Lucas was given total creative autonomy on the Star Wars prequels. Plagued by very similar scripting issues.

I can say that the comment ‘just move on from this please, it's going nowhere’ is much more appropriate when directed at GRRM than D&D, without excusing D&D for their own mistakes.

GRRM made such a convoluted mess of the plot in the world he created that he became so stuck that he released 2 books in 19 years, with general consensus being that later books themselves seeing a lowering in quality.

I don’t find it difficult to sympathize with the situation D&D were put in while also being critical of things that they could have dealt with better.

Tazzimus · 22-05-2019 3:59pm

I think the blame can be laid at the feet of all three.
George for his absolutely glacial writing pace, D&D for their extremely sub-par writing after the book material ran out, with a few exceptions thrown in there.

Foxtrol · 22-05-2019 4:03pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

This specific theory is fundamental to the lore though. Martin used it to test D&D when they first approached him about doing the show by asking them who Jon Snow's mother was. Jon is one of the two or three most central characters and how unknown ancestry is huge.

Fundamental to lore doesn’t mean the whole show has to hang on it, especially in a way that beats you over the head with it.

At this point I’m not sure what would have satisfied you, aside from something like Jon being made king or some sort of massive push for that to happen. For me that reveal had plenty enough impact on show through how it influenced the decisions of everyone who found out about it.

Since the early days of Lost I loved fan theories. Most people seem to enjoy coming up with and discussing them, but for an element it can really lead to toxicness, when certain fans either don’t get the answer to the question, don’t get an answer they like, or the answer doesn’t have the impact they want it to have. It doesn’t seem healthy.

Foxtrol · 22-05-2019 4:13pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

I think the blame can be laid at the feet of all three.
George for his absolutely glacial writing pace, D&D for their extremely sub-par writing after the book material ran out, with a few exceptions thrown in there.

Agreed on the blame.

I do feel that from where GRRM left them D&D simply couldn’t have avoided some of the main gripes that are pointed to as ‘sub-par writing’. For example, if they were to finish the show in less than 15 seasons the pace had to be picked up a lot, switching focus more to plot progression had to become more of a focus, and given where the characters were left on the map and the journeys they needed to make the time to travel between places had to become looser.

Again, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have dealt with the above better or that they aren’t at fault for many other issues.

EagererBeaver · 22-05-2019 4:31pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Fundamental to lore doesn’t mean the whole show has to hang on it, especially in a way that beats you over the head with it.

At this point I’m not sure what would have satisfied you, aside from something like Jon being made king or some sort of massive push for that to happen. For me that reveal had plenty enough impact on show through how it influenced the decisions of everyone who found out about it.

Since the early days of Lost I loved fan theories. Most people seem to enjoy coming up with and discussing them, but for an element it can really lead to toxicness, when certain fans either don’t get the answer to the question, don’t get an answer they like, or the answer doesn’t have the impact they want it to have. It doesn’t seem healthy.

What would have satisfied me?

Something coming of all the the shared glances between Jon and the NK.

Something coming of the look of shock on Dany's face when Jon first reached out to touch Drogon (I think at the time)

Something coming of the fact that Jon could actually ride a flipping dragon, named after his father, rather than Euron the crossbow master taking Rhaegal out for dramatic effect.

Something being made of the fact that the show put a lot of effort into:
a) revealing R+L=J. I think in season 6 they teased it in the first episode with the tower of joy flashback that bloodraven cut short, then did the full reveal later on. This was clearly momentous.

b) the characters in the show finding out about R+L=J

c) varys' letters that ultimately meant absolutely nothing.

The show spent a huge amount of time building it up. It's not just a huge thing in my head because I want it to be a huge thing. They undeniably invested a lot in it as a major plotline. Then they just abandoned it.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 22-05-2019 6:04pm

Jesus Christ, Jon Snow's parentage kicked off the war that defined the Westeros in which the events of the show take place. The tension between his character/temperament and his lineage directly led to the capital city being destroyed, the entire, centuries long form of government being totally overhauled, and one of the show's heroes becoming its final villain. How the actual fcuk can you say "nothing came of it", it literally causes the beginning and end of the story.

Destiny and free will, the corrupting force of the love of power are probably the two biggest themes of the show and he and Dany illustrate them in complementary ways which are inextricably linked to his parentage: she turned out to be willing to abandon all principle in the pursuit of power to which she felt divinely entitled because of her lineage, he would not abandon his principles and freely gives up the throne to which he is in fact more entitled than her.

The only real "something came of it" I can think of would have been Jon ending up on the throne, which would have us actually back full circle to before Roberts rebellion. It would have been a sh1t, cliched ending and people would be pissing and moaning about that too.

This is not a show that stuck the landing, to say the least but good golly it's hard to sift through the intelligent, legitimate criticisms in the face of this absolute sh1t storm of nonsense angry rants about bullsh1t.

Foxtrol · 22-05-2019 6:05pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What would have satisfied me?

Something coming of all the the shared glances between Jon and the NK.

Something coming of the look of shock on Dany's face when Jon first reached out to touch Drogon (I think at the time)

Something coming of the fact that Jon could actually ride a flipping dragon, named after his father, rather than Euron the crossbow master taking Rhaegal out for dramatic effect.

Something being made of the fact that the show put a lot of effort into:
a) revealing R+L=J. I think in season 6 they teased it in the first episode with the tower of joy flashback that bloodraven cut short, then did the full reveal later on. This was clearly momentous.

b) the characters in the show finding out about R+L=J

c) varys' letters that ultimately meant absolutely nothing.

The show spent a huge amount of time building it up. It's not just a huge thing in my head because I want it to be a huge thing. They undeniably invested a lot in it as a major plotline. Then they just abandoned it.

All you are proving with that post is that you seem to have no idea of what you actually wanted, just that you weren't happy (or maybe more accurate to say having a borderline mental breakdown) about what they gave you.

You're perfectly entitled to vent away, but I clearly saw that the reveal had a huge impact on the narrative and didn't need nor want everything to be spoon fed to me or for it to take over the whole ending of the show in a way that beats us over the head.

storker · 22-05-2019 6:41pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

but for an element it can really lead to toxicness, when certain fans either don’t get the answer to the question, don’t get an answer they like, or the answer doesn’t have the impact they want it to have. It doesn’t seem healthy.

A bit like life.

PirateShampoo · 22-05-2019 8:11pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What would have satisfied me?

Something coming of all the the shared glances between Jon and the NK.

Something coming of the look of shock on Dany's face when Jon first reached out to touch Drogon (I think at the time)

Something coming of the fact that Jon could actually ride a flipping dragon, named after his father, rather than Euron the crossbow master taking Rhaegal out for dramatic effect.

Something being made of the fact that the show put a lot of effort into:
a) revealing R+L=J. I think in season 6 they teased it in the first episode with the tower of joy flashback that bloodraven cut short, then did the full reveal later on. This was clearly momentous.

b) the characters in the show finding out about R+L=J

c) varys' letters that ultimately meant absolutely nothing.

The show spent a huge amount of time building it up. It's not just a huge thing in my head because I want it to be a huge thing. They undeniably invested a lot in it as a major plotline. Then they just abandoned it.

Exactly none of it mattered...

Only thing that has changed that Bran is King some bloody how.

S1 Starks in Winterfell
S8 Ditto

S1 Wildlings North of the Wall
S8 Ditto

S1 Nights Watch on the Wall
S8 Ditto (Dunno why)

S1 Lannisters in Casterly Rock
S8 Ditto

S1 Baratheon in Dragon Stone
S8 Ditto

S1 Tullys in Riverrun
S8 Ditto

Unsullied Same, Dothraki became the Army of the Dead of LotR, I can go on with more examples .

They stole the plot of Bran ruling from the Simpsons episode where the smart people take over.

TerrorFirmer · 22-05-2019 10:23pm

Ryan Thundering Whim wrote: »

This is not a show that stuck the landing, to say the least but good golly it's hard to sift through the intelligent, legitimate criticisms in the face of this absolute sh1t storm of nonsense angry rants about bullsh1t.

Bit strong. I would say a huge amount of effort the show put into teasing out his lineage is completely disporportionate to what they effectively managed to achieve with it in the end.

I'm not saying it had no relevance to the narrative, but they did feck-all with it in the grander scheme of things, presumably thanks to their ridiculous self-imposed time constraints that left zero room for actual meaningful character/plot development in favor of huge CGI spectacles.

Compounded by the fact that despite everything, including Vary's letter, it ultimately just frustratingly, and incredibly lazily, gets swept under the rug in that utter mess that was the second half of the finale.

It's nothing to do with the fact that Jon didn't become King, anyone who takes that away from the complaint is missing the point. It's about the lazy, bare-bones scripting of this season which just does the absolute minimum needed to get characters from plot point to plot point.

Like pretty much everything in the season, it was just a victim of the headlong rush to the finish line and wrap it all up and enormous potential was just let circle and disappear down the drain.

I would agree overall with the opinion that they did largely (not saying entirely) abandon the plotline, certainly personally wouldn't call it "a nonsense angry rant".

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 22-05-2019 11:37pm

His parentage directly leads to the system of ruling a continent being radically changed after centuries of consistency. His parentage directly leads to the other presumed hero of the story showing her true colours and out murdering every other villain in the series put together. His parentage it turns out, sparked the war that led to literally every event in the show taking place. It could not be more important to the story. It crystallises Jon's character, shows us exactly how incorruptible and unmaterialistic he is. It illustrates a theme that the books and the shows have consistently hammered away at, as he said to Tyrion " do you think our house words are written on our bodies when we're born?" and he shows no, they're not. Just like Tyrion, Theon, Arya, Sam. The argument that it was abandoned just doesn't hold up, it drives the action of the last three episodes totally and contains so much of the spirit and essence of the series. My tone was a bit strong there, you're right, but I'd argue not any stronger than that poster's own contributions.

Varys burnt the letter, there's a pretty limited degree to which you can progress the story of burnt paper. He burnt it and removed his rings because he is a thorough, conscientious person calmly facing his death, not panicking. It was just a little character beat, and very in character. The kind of thing that people claim to miss from the show.

Look there is so much to hate this season and last. Though they were both good scenes I felt that given the cutaways from Tyrion and Bran's conversation, Jon and his sisters, just the overall rushedness, that a two minute scene of Brienne writing followed by a good 90 seconds of Tyrion moving chairs around was tantamount to trolling! But the reality is that they were always going to piss of hundreds of thousands of people and people really seem to just be ranting about whatever their pet theory is or the first thing they think of.

"Characters are acting very inconsistently" yep.

"People are constantly explicitly put in certain death situations and constantly survive them" sure.

"Armies change size and ability level based on the plot" that is annoying, yes.

"Fcuking Euron oh my gaaaaawd" absolutely.

"You know the driving force of the entire narrative? The thing that drives the dragon queen over the edge? Leads to genocide? Leads to the iron throne being destroyed and its rightful heir rejecting its power and heading off to determine his own destiny? I don't think they developed that enough" ehh no,learn how to watch tv better.

EagererBeaver · 23-05-2019 1:44am

Foxtrol wrote: »

You're perfectly entitled to vent away, but I clearly saw that the reveal had a huge impact on the narrative and didn't need nor want everything to be spoon fed to me or for it to take over the whole ending of the show in a way that beats us over the head.

Thanks for this bit, I completely forgot that I'm a complete and utter moron and am incapable of digesting a story unless it is procedurally and narratively simplistic enough for a five year old to follow.

People are of course entitled to their opinions, but trying to explain away bad writing, narrative inconsistency and breakdowns of internal logic as somehow being something subtle that only a few of us can truly comprehend is laughably misguided, arrogant and wrong.

EagererBeaver · 23-05-2019 1:56am

Ryan Thundering Whim wrote: »

ehh no,learn how to watch tv better.

The absolute state of this ffs.

....... · 23-05-2019 9:06am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

The absolute state of this ffs.

This from the person who completely missed the importance of Jons parentage :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tazzimus · 23-05-2019 10:09am

PirateShampoo wrote: »

S1 Baratheon in Dragon Stone
S8 Ditto

Gendry is in Storms End, not Dragonstone

2ndcoming · 23-05-2019 12:30pm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

S1 Lannisters in Casterly Rock
S8 Ditto

Are there?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2019 1:01pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

The absolute state of this ffs.

The state of saying of the element of the plot which directly or indirectly caused every single thing we saw on this show and totally shaped the ending "nothing came of it".

And I'm not saying it was some subtlety of writing that only smart viewers could discern. Nobody stfu about his lineage for the last three episodes, it could not have been less subtle unless we got another scene like where Tyrion helpfully explicitly explains Danaerys' arc to everyone.

Apart from "flargle blargle something DIFFERENT it's so STUPID raaaargh!" what exactly did you want emphasised more or differently about the detail that was the subject of every second sentence out of everyone's mouth over three hours of television?

PirateShampoo · 23-05-2019 3:00pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

Are there?

Tyrion

PirateShampoo · 23-05-2019 3:02pm

....... wrote: »

This from the person who completely missed the importance of Jons parentage :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The single purpose for Jon's parentage was to be a catalyst for Danny's turn. It bore no other importance to the show.

Foxtrol · 23-05-2019 3:04pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Thanks for this bit, I completely forgot that I'm a complete and utter moron and am incapable of digesting a story unless it is procedurally and narratively simplistic enough for a five year old to follow.

People are of course entitled to their opinions, but trying to explain away bad writing, narrative inconsistency and breakdowns of internal logic as somehow being something subtle that only a few of us can truly comprehend is laughably misguided, arrogant and wrong.

My posts to you had nothing to do with the bolded and you're now trying to straw man, I commented on your complete breakdown that Jon's lineage meant 'nothing, absolutely nothing in the overall scheme of things'.

If you still truly believe that statement, especially after electro~bitch has eloquently detailed why that just isnt the case, then it is hard to argue with your self description in your first paragraph.

....... · 23-05-2019 3:27pm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

The single purpose for Jon's parentage was to be a catalyst for Danny's turn. It bore no other importance to the show.

Which in itself is the single most important event that happened in the show and resulted in a paradigm shift for EVERYONE in Westeros, then end of the 7 Kingdoms, the end of Succession Monarchy, the North doing a Brexit and the end of the Targaryens finally.

But hey, if people want to believe that it didnt matter that Jon was a Targaryen, then let them at it.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2019 3:30pm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

The single purpose for Jon's parentage was to be a catalyst for Danny's turn. It bore no other importance to the show.

Yes aside from the final, biggest twist in the show's run it bore no other narrative importance to the show, apart from kicking off Robert's Rebellion, retrospectively changing the whole meaning of that conflict and of Ned Stark's character. But nowt apart from that :pac:

Thematically it's the most significant plot point of them all.

I can understand people being disappointed that all the Prince who was promised etc prophecy stuff ending up dropped but the show's been veering that way for ages, suddenly reintroducing it in the last episode or two would have been ridiculous.

I can kiiiind of get disappointment at his identity not having anything to do with the Night King despite the fact that as commanders of opposing forces they made eye contact.

But this is not A Song Of Ice and Fire, it's Game of Thrones. Slight hint about the different focuses of two different texts right there like.

And while I can can understand the disappointment I can't understand the flapping frothing rage about it. It had a different significance than a portion of the book reading audience wanted, which doesn't mean it had no significance.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2019 3:33pm

On a lighter note on this episode, I'm not always the biggest fan of D&D's brand of levity (iirc they were responsible for the whole "Pod's good at riding and that's hilarious!" thing) but Bronn's "longMAYhereign" is still making me giggle.

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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