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Future and potential Star Wars films - news and speculation
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Join Date:Posts: 33867
Oh FFS :rolleyes:
This is just dumb.
I've yet to hear a cogent set of arguments on why 'Game of Thrones' is so "bad" now. I haven't seen 8 yet, so it may be absolute shite. But this nerdy bollocks talk has been floating around for a while and it only stems from a binary RRM involved=good and RRM not involved=bad.
It's nonsense and GoT remains one of the finest examples of modern TV that's available. It's been consistently good since it started, slight flaws and all.
It comes down to a subset of over-invested fans still getting upset when, in a show famous for pulling the rug from underneath, proceeded to pull the rug from underneath. There are level headed suggestions that the latest "they did NOT just do that" moment is bad writing, there are many others losing their nut because of whatever weird psychological compunction imbues that other subset with aggressive entitlement.
As someone who doesn't (anymore) think it's one of the finest examples of modern TV, I'll be glad when it's over and people can shut the f*ck up about it.
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Hunky Monster wrote: »Really?
Jesus how sad are some people.
*scrolls through this and every other Star Wars thread*
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It comes down to a subset of over-invested fans still getting upset when, in a show famous for pulling the rug from underneath, proceeded to pull the rug from underneath. There are level headed suggestions that the latest "they did NOT just do that" moment is bad writing, there are many others losing their nut because of whatever weird psychological compunction imbues that other subset with aggressive entitlement.
As someone who doesn't (anymore) think it's one of the finest examples of modern TV, I'll be glad when it's over and people can shut the f*ck up about it.
Well, for me that runs across several things at present, including Star Wars.johnny_ultimate wrote: »Before I state the following I need to stress in no uncertain terms that modern online fandoms are largely horrible, remake petitions are embarrassing, and creatives should never really listen to fans about the direction any given film or show should go.
But as someone who's only ever thought Game of Thrones was at best 'pretty good' and far away from the best modern TV has to offer (god, I remember how weak the last season seemed when it was broadcasting at the same time as the transcendent Twin Peaks)...
Ah well, sure there's no accounting for taste. :pac:johnny_ultimate wrote: »...the writing in the past two seasons, this one in particular, has been pretty poor by the standards of what has come before. Even as someone with not much connection to the show beyond enjoying it as a Monday treat, I've been disappointed with the way they've rushed through the last couple of episodes, neglecting characters in the process. I think it's still capable of incredible spectacle and season's eight quietest, most uneventful episode is possibly even my favourite of the entire run. But they've fairly shat the bed in other respects and IMO much of the more reasonable criticism (i.e. not the shrieking hysteria) is perfectly fair and wholly justified.
There have been some dodgy parts to 'Game of Thrones' without a doubt, but I've yet to see any TV show that hasn't got dodgy parts. But, genuinely, it's been a show that I've been continually entertained by since it started and that cannot be said for much else.
Like yourself, I have no connection to it, other than a show I watch. I'm not even a fan of that kind of "Tolkien lite" type of fantasy. I couldn't care less about R.R. Martin. So, I don't have to white knight it or anything and I don't lose any sleep about stuff that people don't like. But the negative "criticism" of the show has been fairly hazy to say the least. It's usually "it's bad", or "it's crap now", etc, without offering anything of more substance.
Possibly the worst thing they did was thatJohn Snow's dead/Ah no he's notcrap. Have to say that really bugged me. But then'The Walking Dead' pulled that shite as well.
As I said, though, I have yet to see 8. So may over all appreciation of it may change once that happens.johnny_ultimate wrote: »Certainly doesn't make me particularly enthused about what Weiss and Benioff will do with Star Wars... but hey, will give them the benefit of the doubt until the third film where they inevitably rush through major plot developments for a well foreshadowed and yet eerily unconvincing resolution :pac:
I am far, far, more enthused about them being involved in a Star Wars thing than Rian Johnson or JJ Abrams.
Again, though, that may be subject to change once I've seen what they've done. :pac:0 -
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Johnson Benioff and weiss have the huge advantage of their new films being free of the ties to established canon.
B&W asked for a specific period and it’s thousand(s) of years before apaprently?
I hope they truly are interconnecting theirs with Johnson’s. Sets up a whole new era and canon free of all the ties. One of the podcasts have an insider that told them Johnson’s trilogy will be announced this year probably at that Disney conference D23. There are quite a few unnamed films that had dates on that Disney schedule that they released few weeks back.
More excited for B&W’s. 8 series of incredible TV and people losing their minds about this last season. It’s gas
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,118 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 27831
Cryptopagan wrote: »That’s a bit extreme; there are plenty of examples of positive fandom online.
That's absolutely true: there are for sure plenty of properly enthusiastic, reasonable fans out there waving their flags with pride. So perhaps my use of 'largely' was a bit hyperbolic, but definitely feel there's 'a lot' of bad vibes and endless hostility in many of the high-profile online fan communities these days, even if it's just a minority shouting loudly. Kinda sucks the fun out of discussing a lot of these big hyper-franchise films.
I do stand by my belief that the filmmakers put in charge of these things should ideally pave their own path and tell the stories they want to tell, in the way they want to. As fan fiction as so consistently proven, most 'alternative versions' put forward online are pedestrian at best... and I won't go into the worst as this is a family website. Add to this the usual distortions about how many films are talked about these days - whether that's the insufferable 'Cinema Sins' style nitpicking or the weaponisation of identity politics by ideologues - and a lot of the complaints about what constitute 'bad storytelling' or 'a bad film' make me want to tear my hair out :P
There are for sure cases where constructive feedback can be taken on board to positive effect, and things tweaked accordingly. But storytelling shouldn't be crowd-sourced, as IMO that's a shortcut to blandness. And the ownership a few people feel over these corporate behemoths can get fairly ridiculous - we've all seen perfectly reasonably critics come under fire for daring to speak mild ill about some blockbuster or another.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd always take something divisive but ambitious like The Last Jedi - which for me was a thrilling case study in letting a talented filmmaker exert their own vision over a tightly-controlled series - over the sort of vanilla, fan servicey likes of the Avengers films. Ultimately, we all have our own tastes and preferences, so I'm just speaking for myself - but as ever I think we'd all be better off if more online film discussion wasn't so drowned in negativity. That's not to say there should be no criticism, quite the opposite. It's more just an earnest wish for less of the nasty trench warfare over the mega-franchises!0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 33867
johnny_ultimate wrote: »That's absolutely true: there are for sure plenty of properly enthusiastic, reasonable fans out there waving their flags with pride. So perhaps my use of 'largely' was a bit hyperbolic, but definitely feel there's 'a lot' of bad vibes and endless hostility in many of the high-profile fan communities these days. Kinda sucks the fun out of discussing a lot of these big hyper-franchise films.
The simple reason why the poisonous aspects of fandom are more visible is because "'de media" insists on reporting it for the sake of clickbait and manufactured controversy. Newspapers never went out of business printing "dog bites man", so it is that online publications have latched onto negativity in an otherwise positive, inclusive space. Just flick over to the Batman thread, where linked is one website desperately trying to create outrage by dint of (near) non-existent petitions against Robert Pattinson becoming the next Batman - presumably jumping on the back of the Game of Thrones equivalent (and that franchise is a different beast altogether, transcending geekery into a cult like obsession among "the normal")
Most Star Wars (or Trek, Dr. Who, uh, Babylon 5?) fans are enthusiastic, welcoming people; just go looking for cosplay for instance at the - now hundreds of - geek conventions across the globe and you'll see passionate, smiling people of all ages & genders expressing their love of the franchise.
The minority 'black stormtroopers', 'Mary Sue' bell-ends not only fills blogs, they also act as a convenient rollback to that cliché of the 'geek' being this angry, likely male loner raging against the world. Pop culture is normal now, it's OK to love SciFi openly but a smiling family dressed up like the Skywalkers doesn't conform to that lingering cliché - so the worst aspects are trotted out for us to gawp at.johnny_ultimate wrote: »I do stand by my belief that the filmmakers put in charge of these things should ideally pave their own path and tell the stories they want to tell, in the way they want to. As fan fiction as so consistently proven, most 'alternative versions' put forward online are pedestrian at best... and I won't go into the worst as this is a family website. Add to this the usual distortions about how many films are talked about these days: whether that's the insufferable 'Cinema Sins' style nitpicking or the weaponisation of identity politics by ideologues, and a lot of the complaints about what constitute 'bad storytelling' or 'a bad film' make me want to tear my hair out :P
I take it you don't subscribe to the whole "Death of the Author" mentality, that at some point the 'author' no longer has cultural or emotional ownership of a property?johnny_ultimate wrote: »I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd always take something divisive but ambitious like The Last Jedi - which for me was a thrilling case study in letting a talented filmmaker exert their own vision over a tightly-controlled series - over the sort of vanilla, fan servicey likes of the Avengers films.
Naw, I'm there with you, waving the Last Jedi flag in the face of others - I watched it again recently and it holds up for me. Brave, flawed and kinda insane that such a film could be made.0 -
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