Off Topic Thread 4.0

awec · 06-05-2019 07:18PM

No discussion of spoilers.

In this thread, you can discuss up to the currently aired episode, so long as you use spoiler tags. Don't discuss anything beyond the current episode. Don't even hint at, insinuate or even joke about spoilers from the last 2 episodes.

That's been the way it's worked until now, we don't want anyone having it accidentally ruined for them in this thread.

CatFromHue · 06-05-2019 07:44PM

I didn't think the FAI could amaze me about anything anymore, but the Treasurer did an interview today giving out about the media and politicians :eek:

Unbelievable!

Clegg · 06-05-2019 08:19PM

They did a remarkable job of assassinating Brienne's character this episode.

Yeah she's in love with Jaime and doesn't want him to leave for Kings Landing. But crying and begging him to stay? That's never been her way. She's a proud woman and knight. You don't turn her into a a milksop ffs.

Bazzo · 06-05-2019 08:41PM

The show has been gradually getting worse the further they've departed from the source material - the books. The writers are nowhere near as good as Martin is and they know it, it's why they insisted on wrapping up in the 8th season with less episodes - at least this way they'll get to actually finish the show.

The result is even worse though. Now the writing is crap AND it's ridiculously rushed piling crap on crap and trying to shoehorn everything in as they run out of time. This episode was mental, jumping all over the place and spanning what would have been months and months in the space of a few mins.

Buer · 06-05-2019 09:52PM

GOT has been on a downward trajectory for some time now. I don't think it has been near as good since season 5 with a couple of notable exceptions. The intrigue, the manipulation and the shock factor are all completely gone. It had an incredibly high level to maintain which was always going to be near impossible but it has now fallen to simplification and convenience. It feels like the makers are tired and happy to wrap it up with money in the bank. Deus ex machina has been the star of the show this season

thomond2006 · 06-05-2019 11:11PM

Buer wrote: »

GOT has been on a downward trajectory for some time now. I don't think it has been near as good since season 5 with a couple of notable exceptions. The intrigue, the manipulation and the shock factor are all completely gone. It had an incredibly high level to maintain which was always going to be near impossible but it has now fallen to simplification and convenience. It feels like the makers are tired and happy to wrap it up with money in the bank. Deus ex machina has been the star of the show this season

Very true, I can't see the final two episodes producing moments anywhere close to the perfection of this. Season 6 is up there with the earlier seasons for it alone. The desperation of Margeary, the coolness of Cersei, the slow realisation of the High Sparrow that he had been tricked, the demise of Pycelle and possibly the most appropriate/fitting score to a scene I've ever heard. A phenomenal 10 minutes of television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtPtTUx_ks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS-gbqbVd8c Unfortunately the links don't work under spoilers!

I did enjoy the latest episode but Christ the pacing is really spoiling things. The 'slow build' of earlier seasons has been thrown out the window. I'm happy enough to see the whole thing end in two weeks.

Erik Shun · 06-05-2019 11:18PM

Its starting to look like the official CIA file on Osama Bin Laden around here!

pickarooney · 07-05-2019 07:50AM

Clegg wrote: »

They did a remarkable job of assassinating Brienne's character this episode.
Yeah she's in love with Jaime and doesn't want him to leave for Kings Landing. But crying and begging him to stay? That's never been her way. She's a proud woman and knight. You don't turn her into a a milksop ffs.

People blather on about lack of character development but when it actually happens they moan about inconsistencies. Brienne has been through a lot in the last few episodes. She's no longer just this obedient servant with an abnormal physique. For the first time she has been accepted as a knight, then a friend, then a lover, while cheating death and watching thousands die around her. If you think that's not going to stir up some emotion, I don't know what will.

bilston · 07-05-2019 08:26AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Very true, I can't see the final two episodes producing moments anywhere close to the perfection of this. Season 6 is up there with the earlier seasons for it alone. The desperation of Margeary, the coolness of Cersei, the slow realisation of the High Sparrow that he had been tricked, the demise of Pycelle and possibly the most appropriate/fitting score to a scene I've ever heard. A phenomenal 10 minutes of television. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtPtTUx_ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS-gbqbVd8c Unfortunately the links don't work under spoilers!

I did enjoy the latest episode but Christ the pacing is really spoiling things. The 'slow build' of earlier seasons has been thrown out the window. I'm happy enough to see the whole thing end in two weeks.

The pacing is my issue with it, but I suppose that leads to the other criticisms. They should have gone for more episodes or another series. We got half a seasons worth of stuff in the latest episode. Messindais capture and death was far far too rushed. There was some good politicking between Tyron and Carts, but again it happened very quickly. I still enjoyed it, I don't understand the attitude of I won't even bother watching the last two episodes from one or two! I bet you the people saying that for actually watch it!

Buer · 07-05-2019 08:52AM

Clegg wrote: »

They did a remarkable job of assassinating Brienne's character this episode.

Not too pushed about Brienne, I think it was a culmination of everything for her but I didn't believe the storyline whatsoever. I never got the impression (until the last 1-2 episodes) that there was anything remotely reciprocal from Jamie towards her. The Tormund storyline is just thrown away in 2 minutes and he's off with one of the servants instantly. It was a two fingered "Yeah, whatever" to the development that has gone on for a couple of seasons.

There were other things that disappointed me more. A massive fleet nearby isn't spotted from the air? That was just silly. Euron is just a crap bad guy who comes into it from nowhere and just randomly pops up to make massive impacts on the story line.

jr86 · 07-05-2019 09:18AM

City have pretty much sewn up the title now, absolutely incredible efficiency from them

To think when they lost that match at St. james's Park in january - and it looked for all the world Liverpool would take the title - they have since won 13 on the bounce (to become 14 Sunday), conceded a measly 3 goals, NONE of which from open play. I don't recall them ever going behind in any of those games either. Shame for Liverpool that City have saved their mediocre performances for the cup competitions (and they'll still win 2 of them).

While on a matchplay basis I don't know would they beat Chelsea of 05, Arsenal 02/04, and United 07-09, but on a consistent level - throughout a 38 game season - this is surely the greatest side the premier league has seen

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 10:51AM

Buer wrote: »

Not too pushed about Brienne, I think it was a culmination of everything for her but I didn't believe the storyline whatsoever. I never got the impression (until the last 1-2 episodes) that there was anything remotely reciprocal from Jamie towards her. The Tormund storyline is just thrown away in 2 minutes and he's off with one of the servants instantly. It was a two fingered "Yeah, whatever" to the development that has gone on for a couple of seasons.

There were other things that disappointed me more. A massive fleet nearby isn't spotted from the air? That was just silly. Euron is just a crap bad guy who comes into it from nowhere and just randomly pops up to make massive impacts on the story line.

Never mind that

the obvious solution was to circle around behind them and burn them up while their ballista were pointing the other way.

molloyjh · 07-05-2019 11:16AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

Not too pushed about Brienne, I think it was a culmination of everything for her but I didn't believe the storyline whatsoever. I never got the impression (until the last 1-2 episodes) that there was anything remotely reciprocal from Jamie towards her. The Tormund storyline is just thrown away in 2 minutes and he's off with one of the servants instantly. It was a two fingered "Yeah, whatever" to the development that has gone on for a couple of seasons.

There were other things that disappointed me more. A massive fleet nearby isn't spotted from the air? That was just silly. Euron is just a crap bad guy who comes into it from nowhere and just randomly pops up to make massive impacts on the story line.

Never mind that
the obvious solution was to circle around behind them and burn them up while their ballista were pointing the other way.

How do you know that they didnt have some on the back too?

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 11:31AM

molloyjh wrote: »

How do you know that they didnt have some on the back too?

I didn't see any, and I was looking because it was the first thing I thought of. The ones at the front were on swivels, so I assumed that they could rotate 360 degrees, but if you come in low from behind, there's no way they can shoot without hitting their own ships. And the sails would block their aim.

But I will have another look.

thomond2006 · 07-05-2019 11:33AM

WITCH HUNT!

molloyjh · 07-05-2019 12:03PM

It doesn't matter whether we can tell if there were or weren't balistas on the back. It only matters if Dany can tell or not.

Also, I don't really get the issue with Eurons fleet appearing out of nowhere. It was an ambush. Isn't that the point of ambushes? It wouldn't really be an ambush otherwise. And once the ships are within line of sight of the dragons, then the dragons are in line of sight of the the ships. Traps like that dont get sprung when neither side can see each other. They get sprung as soon as they possibly can.

I do get the dues ex machina complaints and I do feel this season is rushed. It could really have been done over 2 seasons. The first dealing with the white walkers and the Jon Snow revelation. The second dealing with Cersei and the fall out from the Jon Snow revelation.

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 12:31PM

molloyjh wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether we can tell if there were or weren't balistas on the back. It only matters if Dany can tell or not.

Also, I don't really get the issue with Eurons fleet appearing out of nowhere. It was an ambush. Isn't that the point of ambushes? It wouldn't really be an ambush otherwise. And once the ships are within line of sight of the dragons, then the dragons are in line of sight of the the ships. Traps like that dont get sprung when neither side can see each other. They get sprung as soon as they possibly can.

I do get the dues ex machina complaints and I do feel this season is rushed. It could really have been done over 2 seasons. The first dealing with the white walkers and the Jon Snow revelation. The second dealing with Cersei and the fall out from the Jon Snow revelation.

Well I checked and there were none at the back. Just a bunch of soldiers. I understand what you're saying about an ambush, but it goes against the whole idea of the superiority of air power. You just can't hide a fleet of that magnitude from aerial observation. The only way is if they are flying low enough to completely negate their advantage.

And how did they manage to shoot an arrow directly into Rhaegal's chest and a few seconds later hit him from the side? That either implies that they were so close that the dragons had come abreast of the fleet in those few seconds and yet hadn't spotted them or that they had turned sharply right in those few seconds. A manoeuvre that was not at all obvious in the sequence.

And how do you sink a fleet with scorpions? Do these things fly through water without losing velocity? It just doesn't stand up to any kind of logic that you can shoot at ships and hit them all at or below the waterline before they can get away or even turn to reduce the target area. That wasn't even possible in the age of ship-borne cannons without long and protracted sea battles. It's just all too sloppy for me.

molloyjh · 07-05-2019 12:39PM

I dont remember the sequence in enough detail to talk about the angles of each shot but it seemed clear to me at the time that the attack was side on. And I'd imagine that Dany simply wasn't high enough to spot the fleet as she had no reason to believe that her dragons were under threat from standard man-made weapons.

Also, there really is no point in talking about realism in a show about dragons, immortal ice men created from magic daggers, heroes being brought back from the dead etc etc etc. Some of that stuff you just have to let go. Its entertainment, not mockumentary.

Clegg · 07-05-2019 12:46PM

jr86 wrote: »

City have pretty much sewn up the title now, absolutely incredible efficiency from them

To think when they lost that match at St. james's Park in january - and it looked for all the world Liverpool would take the title - they have since won 13 on the bounce (to become 14 Sunday), conceded a measly 3 goals, NONE of which from open play. I don't recall them ever going behind in any of those games either. Shame for Liverpool that City have saved their mediocre performances for the cup competitions (and they'll still win 2 of them).

While on a matchplay basis I don't know would they beat Chelsea of 05, Arsenal 02/04, and United 07-09, but on a consistent level - throughout a 38 game season - this is surely the greatest side the premier league has seen

Which episode of GoT is this from?

Being serious, either City or Liverpool would be deserving Champions. Since the turn of the New Year both have been incredibly consistent.

It's a good thing we have them as the next best sides are actually a bit crap. Standard of the other big sides has dipped. Spurs deserve a break as they've financial restrictions and a paper thin squad as a result. But Chelsea, United and Arsenal have no such excuse.

I've no hope for United to get back to the tip any time soon either. They need directions from the top and an experienced DoF to get them there, making the right signings for at least three seasons. But We Woodward is incompetent and will feck it all up.

07-05-2019 12:51PM

Clegg wrote: »

They did a remarkable job of assassinating Brienne's character this episode.
Yeah she's in love with Jaime and doesn't want him to leave for Kings Landing. But crying and begging him to stay? That's never been her way. She's a proud woman and knight. You don't turn her into a a milksop ffs.

I don't get this complaint at all.

Brienne is the only character that they haven't made a balls of. I thought it made perfect sense for her to break down.

Mr Tickle · 07-05-2019 12:58PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

And how do you sink a fleet with scorpions? Do these things fly through water without losing velocity? It just doesn't stand up to any kind of logic that you can shoot at ships and hit them all at or below the waterline before they can get away or even turn to reduce the target area. That wasn't even possible in the age of ship-borne cannons without long and protracted sea battles. It's just all too sloppy for me.

Not arguing that the whole thing was sloppy. But the hero's (the fact that we have obvious heroes now is a bad sign) ships had just dropped anchor when the scene began so they wouldn't have been able to escape quickly.

Still agree that it was all a bit slapped together. There was enough in this episode for at least two decent hour long ones.

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 01:11PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I dont remember the sequence in enough detail to talk about the angles of each shot but it seemed clear to me at the time that the attack was side on. And I'd imagine that Dany simply wasn't high enough to spot the fleet as she had no reason to believe that her dragons were under threat from standard man-made weapons.

Well she should have. Because she lost one to a thrown javelin and nearly another to Bronn using the exact same weapon that Euron was using. When she went to attack the fleet, they were in a channel between what looked like an island and the mainland. Presumably the narrative was that they were hiding behind the island, yet within seconds had sailed into the channel in perfect formation. Rhaegal actually took two to the chest and it was the third that hit at a 90 degree angle to the first two and somehow she is attacking head on to the fleet. Which are bunched together.

molloyjh wrote: »

lso, there really is no point in talking about realism in a show about dragons, immortal ice men created from magic daggers, heroes being brought back from the dead etc etc etc. Some of that stuff you just have to let go. Its entertainment, not mockumentary.

I hear this a lot. Of course you can suspend belief in a show with dragons etc. That does not mean that you can somehow wave away the massive plot holes that the show is throwing up with alarming regularity. It's just lazy script writing. Rather than take the time to come up with a plausible plot (even a paper thin one would be good) they just ignore the laws of physics and don't even bother to try and pull a fig leaf over it.

Podge_irl · 07-05-2019 01:13PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Also, there really is no point in talking about realism in a show about dragons, immortal ice men created from magic daggers, heroes being brought back from the dead etc etc etc. Some of that stuff you just have to let go. Its entertainment, not mockumentary.

Don't think there is any spoilers in this so leaving it open for the sake of page asthetics, but I hate this line of argument. No matter the show, all that matters is that it retains internal consistency. Just because you have dragons in it doesn't mean you can throw out all other rules that you have spent years and years defining. Otherwise what is the point in proper storytelling at all?

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 01:18PM

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Not arguing that the whole thing was sloppy. But the hero's (the fact that we have obvious heroes now is a bad sign) ships had just dropped anchor when the scene began so they wouldn't have been able to escape quickly.

Still agree that it was all a bit slapped together. There was enough in this episode for at least two decent hour long ones.

Yeah, they were at anchor with their sails furled. So it would have taken time to get under way. That's not an unreasonable scenario, except for the lack of any kind of lookout system. It looked like Dragoistone, which is a pretty high structure and yet nobody saw a fleet coming that could get within scorpion shot of their own fleet in a matter of minutes. But we've had the invisible Euron fleet before, so I suppose there's precedent. :rolleyes:

awec · 07-05-2019 01:23PM

It’s a fantasy show that’s grounded in a medieval type reality. Things that happen are supposed to be believable.

The majority of characters are supposed to be normal people, with normal abilities, normal problems etc.

irishbucsfan · 07-05-2019 01:49PM

What about the crossbow man bit? Did we all love that?

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 02:07PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What about the crossbow man bit? Did we all love that?

If we edit it down to the bits we liked (didn't go WTAF), how much will be left?

DGRulz · 07-05-2019 02:10PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

[/spoiler]
Well she should have. Because she lost one to a thrown javelin and nearly another to Bronn using the exact same weapon that Euron was using. When she went to attack the fleet, they were in a channel between what looked like an island and the mainland. Presumably the narrative was that they were hiding behind the island, yet within seconds had sailed into the channel in perfect formation. Rhaegal actually took two to the chest and it was the third that hit at a 90 degree angle to the first two and somehow she is attacking head on to the fleet. Which are bunched together.

I hear this a lot. Of course you can suspend belief in a show with dragons etc. That does not mean that you can somehow wave away the massive plot holes that the show is throwing up with alarming regularity. It's just lazy script writing. Rather than take the time to come up with a plausible plot (even a paper thin one would be good) they just ignore the laws of physics and don't even bother to try and pull a fig leaf over it.

Minor point, but they're not the same weapon. If you look at the behind the scenes thing, the weapons master goes into detail about how Qyburn went back to the drawing board and redesigned the scorpion we saw in S7 and Euron made his own tweaks as well. The current one is much bigger and the tip of the bolts expand into a sort of four prongs trident. Of course none of that was relayed in the episode.

prawnsambo · 07-05-2019 02:14PM

DGRulz wrote: »

Minor point, but they're not the same weapon. If you look at the behind the scenes thing, the weapons master goes into detail about how Qyburn went back to the drawing board and redesigned the scorpion we saw in S7 and Euron made his own tweaks as well. The current one is much bigger and the tip of the bolts expand into a sort of four prongs trident. Of course none of that was relayed in the episode.

Fair enough. But the basis of my argument wasn't the similarity but the fact of their existence as a weapon.

molloyjh · 07-05-2019 02:15PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

DGRulz wrote: »

Minor point, but they're not the same weapon. If you look at the behind the scenes thing, the weapons master goes into detail about how Qyburn went back to the drawing board and redesigned the scorpion we saw in S7 and Euron made his own tweaks as well. The current one is much bigger and the tip of the bolts expand into a sort of four prongs trident. Of course none of that was relayed in the episode.

Fair enough. But the basis of my argument wasn't the similarity but the fact of their existence as a weapon.

That did no real damage in its first iteration. Which was kind of my point.

Off Topic Thread 4.0

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