UK Bans pigeon and crow shooting

GolfVI · 23-04-2019 5:55pm #1

Shocking news

“The Government has bowed to Chris Packham and is banning most pigeon, crow, gull and Canada goose shooting in England and Wales.

Natural England – the Government agency responsible – is “revoking three general licences for controlling certain wild birds as of Thursday 25 April 2019,” says the Government in a statement. It adds: “These licences (GL 04/05/06) cover 16 species of birds including several members of the crow family, Canada goose, some gulls and pigeons.”

Chris Packham crowdfunded and launched a legal challenge called Wild Justice to the way the licences are issued, arguing that shooters are not acting lawfully. Government lawyers appear to have folded and let Packham have his way.”

https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/generallicences/

Mississippi. · 23-04-2019 6:24pm

And it's a EU derogation that allows us shoot crows, will they even have that if brexit goes ahead

Kran · 23-04-2019 6:42pm

Any chance of that happening over here or do we technically already have that law and the derogation is our way around it?

cookimonster · 23-04-2019 6:43pm

I would say that its a stop gap exercise, there is probably an issue with supportive regulations or wording. Prior to this, they had something somewhat similar to our derogation, they could shoot pest species all year round in line with the same reasons for control as scheduled in the Irish derogation.

We have periods of no shooting for specific species through out the 12 month general licences, so it may be a problem with the just cause and application they use.

cookimonster · 23-04-2019 6:56pm

Kran wrote: »

Any chance of that happening over here or do we technically already have that law and the derogation is our way around it?

EU Birds Directive protects all Wild Birds and all EU members must abide to it, but each member may in act a derogation to control certain species, at certain time with prescribed methods.

Grizzly 45 · 25-04-2019 5:49pm

It started with that knob end Chris Pakham of the BBC Country file sticking in his oar with a court case launched by his do gooder group ,Wild Justice.Of course they would pick the best time for this idiocy,smack bang in the early breeding season for song birds and for early crop growth.So magpies and other scavengers are going to have a field day with this stupidity this year.

OTOH,this strikes right into the heart of Fudd country in the UK shooting scene.If this doesn't rattle the likes of Mr Yardley down to his plus fours and highly polished brouges, and the Fudds in the double-barrel scene,piegon and crow shooting is the uber Fudd use of a shotgun that they can be attacked too,and that it is time now to quit throwing each other under the bus of political appeasement,then nothing will.

freshpopcorn · 26-04-2019 5:04am

Somebody left dead crows at his gate. He took to Twitter. He seems like a right yoke in his Tweet.
Saying replies expected.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/tv-presenter-chris-packham-contacts-police-after-dead-crows-left-outside-home-11703514

dodderangler · 26-04-2019 8:34am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Somebody left dead crows at his gate. He took to Twitter. He seems like a right yoke in his Tweet.
Saying replies expected.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/tv-presenter-chris-packham-contacts-police-after-dead-crows-left-outside-home-11703514

That’s not necessarily a shooter than done that. Don’t forget the likes of peta and a lot of animal welfare groups ( not all but some) have often killed animals and out them in situations to make it seem like it’s other people’s fault.
If it was someone from the hunting community then they’re idiots. This type of publicity shows us all to be bad apples. And that’s often not the case. My experience is to ignore these idiots. Go straight to the main people about it. Not the idiots like him that are begging for publicity.
Isn’t he supposed to be a wildlife enthusiast that studies animals? Surely he can see the damage that corvids have on song bird population and the damage pigeons and geese do to crops? He can’t be that stupid to not know that.

Cass · 26-04-2019 9:38am

Almost 100,000 signatures on Change.org to have him [Chris Packham] sacked. In less than 48 hours.

I didn't read the whole story, but apparently there is now a sh*t storm between him, Michael Gove, and the rest of the Government. Apparently Gove is linked into Wild Justice group and this ban came about with no notice to the appropriate bodies or anyone else for that matter.

There was talk of people being sacked, including MPs. So it's now taking on a life of its own.

tac foley · 26-04-2019 9:59am

Mine is one of them. I have a deep loathing for Mr Packham. And Mr Gove.

tac foley · 26-04-2019 10:00am

dodderangler wrote: »

That’s not necessarily a shooter than done that. Don’t forget the likes of peta and a lot of animal welfare groups ( not all but some) have often killed animals and out them in situations to make it seem like it’s other people’s fault.
If it was someone from the hunting community then they’re idiots. This type of publicity shows us all to be bad apples. And that’s often not the case. My experience is to ignore these idiots. Go straight to the main people about it. Not the idiots like him that are begging for publicity.
Isn’t he supposed to be a wildlife enthusiast that studies animals? Surely he can see the damage that corvids have on song bird population and the damage pigeons and geese do to crops? He can’t be that stupid to not know that.

He is of the mindset 'Don't confuse me with facts, tell me what I want to hear'.

Grizzly 45 · 26-04-2019 11:32am

tac foley wrote: »

Mine is one of them. I have a deep loathing for Mr Packham. And Mr Gove.

Mutuall feeling.Signed and passed onto the "I hate the BBC" group on FB.

Bordglas · 26-04-2019 11:59am

I hope it won't result in an increase in tourist shooters from France and Italy coming here instead of the UK.

Nekarsulm · 26-04-2019 12:50pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OTOH,this strikes right into the heart of Fudd country in the UK shooting scene.If this doesn't rattle the likes of Mr Yardley down to his plus fours and highly polished brouges, and the Fudds in the double-barrel scene,piegon and crow shooting is the uber Fudd use of a shotgun that they can be attacked too,and that it is time now to quit throwing each other under the bus of political appeasement,then nothing will.

Mr Yardley has been very quiet about this, not a mention of it on his Twitter account yet.
(His Facebook account has been closed down or limited for some reason)
Given the kind of high end guns he prefers to use/ borrow/review I don't think sitting under a hedge waiting for a grey crow or magpie features in his shooting scene much anyway.

tac foley · 26-04-2019 2:59pm

Rumour has it that the veneered Mr Yardley does not deign to arouse from his bed of rest for guns worth less than £25,000 or thereabouts.

freshpopcorn · 26-04-2019 3:14pm

dodderangler wrote: »

That’s not necessarily a shooter than done that. Don’t forget the likes of peta and a lot of animal welfare groups ( not all but some) have often killed animals and out them in situations to make it seem like it’s other people’s fault.
If it was someone from the hunting community then they’re idiots. This type of publicity shows us all to be bad apples. And that’s often not the case. My experience is to ignore these idiots. Go straight to the main people about it. Not the idiots like him that are begging for publicity.
Isn’t he supposed to be a wildlife enthusiast that studies animals? Surely he can see the damage that corvids have on song bird population and the damage pigeons and geese do to crops? He can’t be that stupid to not know that.

Your probably correct!
People like him are very blinkered in my experience. They never think ahead.

yubabill · 26-04-2019 4:02pm

Cass wrote: »

Almost 100,000 signatures on Change.org to have him [Chris Packham] sacked. In less than 48 hours.

I didn't read the whole story, but apparently there is now a sh*t storm between him, Michael Gove, and the rest of the Government. Apparently Gove is linked into Wild Justice group and this ban came about with no notice to the appropriate bodies or anyone else for that matter.

There was talk of people being sacked, including MPs. So it's now taking on a life of its own.

Just signed the petition - a bit over 104,000 now.

Hate the creep - you want to hear him spitting vitriol about shooting when he did a package for the beeb from Malta not long ago, ignored him because I thought he wasn't dangerous...

Cass · 26-04-2019 4:23pm

Cass wrote: »

Almost 100,000 signatures on Change.org to have him [Chris Packham] sacked. In less than 48 hours.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Mutuall feeling.Signed and passed onto the "I hate the BBC" group on FB.

In the 6 hours since i posted the above it has gone up by over 7,000 (by the by i'm in no way claiming credit for that, just pointing out how quick it's rising).

If we had the same kind of response from our own when we tried previous petitions we'd have done better than 2,500 in 6 weeks.

Keep spreading the word because our Government has a habit of "borrowing" our neighbours laws if they think the social justice mob want it. So to avoid even allowing such a ban here, even int he form of a dirty thought in some TDs head, lets help get it stopped there.

Eddie B · 26-04-2019 4:54pm

One lesson we need to learn from this, is that all country sports enthusiasts need to stick together. The UK have lost a lot of their fieldsports in the last number of years, and it's worse it's getting. (Happening here too, slowely but surely.) Who would have thought that crow/pigeon shooting, could or would be banned. What next? Fishing!!

When the **** hits the fan, the all too common reaction, is to distance ourselves from each other. Even throw one form of fieldsports under the bus, to save another. Just remember this, as far Packham and his friends are concerned, we are all legitimate targets, and they will keep chipping away till there's nothing left.

yubabill · 26-04-2019 7:15pm

Cass wrote: »

In the 6 hours since i posted the above it has gone up by over 7,000 (by the by i'm in no way claiming credit for that, just pointing out how quick it's rising).

If we had the same kind of response from our own when we tried previous petitions we'd have done better than 2,500 in 6 weeks.

Keep spreading the word because our Government has a habit of "borrowing" our neighbours laws if they think the social justice mob want it. So to avoid even allowing such a ban here, even int he form of a dirty thought in some TDs head, lets help get it stopped there.

Wouldn't be surprised if they get in the hundreds of thousands to sign.

Pigeon shooting is the poor man's shooting in the UK, where the wealthy shoot driven pheasant, partridge and duck for $$ per bird.

I hope this turns out to be a major faux pas for Packham. The urban liberal elite have really got up the nose of the working class all around the world. In the UK, I see Brexit as a modern day Peasant's Revolt. In the US, it's Trump (albeit it the rednecks chose a billionaire to disrupt the system - weird).

Here in ROI, the peasants live outside the Pale and things like lowering the permitted alcohol limit followed by enthusiastic alcohol testing and banning learner drivers found unaccompanied by a full licensee are adding to the feeling of not being listened to (whatever the merits of the legislation). Still waiting for Shane Ross to set up a bus to my local (funny that - Ross was infamous for being pulled out of every ditch in Wicklow driving home in the '90's - but he probably can't remember much of it at all).

Cass · 26-04-2019 7:17pm

Up another 3,000+ in 3 hours.

freshpopcorn · 26-04-2019 7:23pm

Signed it also!

tac foley · 26-04-2019 7:28pm

It's great to see that Mr Packham is generating an international hate-up.

Mississippi. · 26-04-2019 8:21pm

Signed and shared also.

Grizzly 45 · 26-04-2019 8:24pm

Hope this turns out to be a major faux pas for Packham. The urban liberal elite have really got up the nose of the working class all around the world. In the UK, I see Brexit as a modern day Peasant's Revolt. In the US, I hit's Trump (albeit it the rednecks chose a billionaire to disrupt the system - weird).

It's very simple really for Brexit,if you are living in some place like Sunderland or Sheffield or the likes and havent seen a job in your family since the devestation Thatcher wrought on your towns since the 1980s...And you watch rich twats like Geldof,Branson &Co sipping champange on a private yacht on the Thames giving the finger and hurling abuse at British trawler men and Nigel Farrange protesting their livleyhoods and there is a vote there...What are you going to do??

Trump did simply what Hillary and Obama chose to ignore.He went to the so called "fly over " states and LISTNED to people that feel disempowerd by 8 years of the most disappointing and devisive president the US had since Carter.Yes they are both NYC millionares,and one a former Democrat and media darling too.I think thats actually WHY the liberal media hate him so much...He turned on them,and espoused the exact opposite to what his pals Hillary and Bill and Barrack and the rest stood for. In fact , legend has it,we can blame Trump for being president on one Mr William Jefferson Clinton,who when he wasnt eying up the talent,presumeably,said that his good friend Don would do very well in politics at some NYC award ceremony....The rest is history!

I hope this is a wakeup call in the Fudd shooting community in the UK.
You can be hit too as well,and it doesnt matter that you just shoot crows and piegons with a traditional SXS.The antis DO NOT CARE what you shoot or with what,they want us all gone.There are no 1st class passengers in a lifeboat.We are ALL in the same boat,and everyone needs to be bailing and rowing in this situation.

Cadpat_cowboy · 26-04-2019 9:02pm

Right boys and girls went on to sign that UK petition and a irish one came up to ban hate coursing minsters in charges details are in image below if you want to voice your views on there up coming decisions.

garrettod · 27-04-2019 3:17pm

GolfVI wrote: »

Shocking news

“The Government has bowed to Chris Packham and is banning most pigeon, crow, gull and Canada goose shooting in England and Wales.

Natural England – the Government agency responsible – is “revoking three general licences for controlling certain wild birds as of Thursday 25 April 2019,” says the Government in a statement. It adds: “These licences (GL 04/05/06) cover 16 species of birds including several members of the crow family, Canada goose, some gulls and pigeons.”

Chris Packham crowdfunded and launched a legal challenge called Wild Justice to the way the licences are issued, arguing that shooters are not acting lawfully. Government lawyers appear to have folded and let Packham have his way.”

https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/generallicences/

Ffs

More stupidity, because we let the tree huggers run loose...

Eddie B · 27-04-2019 3:33pm

Well looks as though it aint such a big deal after all.

https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/generallicences/

Grizzly 45 · 27-04-2019 3:41pm

Apart from zero consultation with any of the groups involved??Yeah no big deal.

minktrapper · 27-04-2019 4:25pm

Some waste of British civil servants time. And the tax payers money. Don't you have to apply for a licence to use crows decoys here?

Kran · 27-04-2019 4:46pm

Can you even get a license for crow decoys? If so how do I go about it? I got permission to shoot over some tillage land which is rare in my area. The crows plague it when it’s just been set. I’ve shot a good few there but sometimes it can take ages to get the first few to use as decoys themselves.

Eddie B · 27-04-2019 4:49pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apart from zero consultation with any of the groups involved??Yeah no big deal.

Same amount of consultation as we got when the use of calls and decoys were banned here. Our government bodies aint much better than the UK's. Sure some lads still use them, not even aware that it's an illegal practice.

minktrapper · 27-04-2019 5:04pm

Eddie B wrote: »

Well looks as though it aint such a big deal after all.

https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/generallicences/

Why bother getting a licence when you can't be refused the same licence. You are licensed as soon as you put the application from in the post.

cookimonster · 27-04-2019 5:35pm

Kran wrote: »

Can you even get a license for crow decoys? If so how do I go about it? I got permission to shoot over some tillage land which is rare in my area. The crows plague it when it’s just been set. I’ve shot a good few there but sometimes it can take ages to get the first few to use as decoys themselves.

Look for the following:

WILDLIFE ACTS 1976 TO 2018 - SECTION 35 APPLICATION FOR LICENCE TO USE DECOYS, LURES, SCARECROWS.

Applications found at : https://www.npws.ie/licences/hunting

Kran · 27-04-2019 5:54pm

Anyone successfully apply for such a license? Or is the form only there for the sake of it.

Grizzly 45 · 27-04-2019 9:11pm

Slightly OT...The foreshore liscense.Is this a renewable annually,or a once off and you are good liscense??

cookimonster · 27-04-2019 9:24pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Slightly OT...The foreshore liscense.Is this a renewable annually,or a once off and you are good liscense??

If I follow your train of thought.

There are two different terms for a foreshore licence:

The individual: renew every 5 years

&

The club: renew every year

cookimonster · 27-04-2019 9:33pm

Kran wrote: »

Anyone successfully apply for such a license? Or is the form only there for the sake of it.

No, they are issued, they are done on a case by case basis. A local Wildlife Ranger will assess the merit of the application, just the same as a Sec42.

You won't be given a cart blanche to kill every target species and restrictions may be put in place. Effectively the licence is to grant the licensee the legal use of prohibited decoys and not the ability to hunt out side of the derogation to the Wild Birds Protection regulations.

tac foley · 27-04-2019 10:14pm

cookimonster wrote: »

If I follow your train of thought.

There are two different terms for a foreshore licence:

The individual: renew every 5 years

&

The club: renew every year

Same here in UK mainland. Not certain about Norn Iron.

Corvidae · 27-04-2019 10:24pm

Wonderful news. I have had the regular misfortune of seeing shooters leave wounded and dying birds both crows and pigeons in local fields. They did not even have the common decency to kill the birds that they had shot even walking past them to exit the fields. Hopefully our government follows suit sooner rather than later.

slipperyox · 27-04-2019 10:44pm

Corvidae wrote: »

Wonderful news. I have had the regular misfortune of seeing shooters leave wounded and dying birds both crows and pigeons in local fields. They did not even have the common decency to kill the birds that they had shot even walking past them to exit the fields. Hopefully our government follows suit sooner rather than later.

I don't believe many on here have a problem with laws. Its introducing them without debate, and a supposed impartial BBC presenter using his status to sway opinions.

If you want change, gradual is always more palatable to the ones affected.

Do you think non indigenous eurasian magpies should be protected and why?

cookimonster · 27-04-2019 10:53pm

Corvidae,

You need to keep afoot of the on going situation in England. The authorities are now being inundated with licence applications that are authorised by the mere application process.
This is simply a hicup in procedure and once the 'i's are dotted and the 't's crossed legitimate hunters and vermin controlers will be able to continue in thier lawful activities.
We already have control measures in place here for both the legal protection of birds and thier legal hunting. So there is no real reason to copy what was obviously a flawed system as seen in England.

Corvidae · 27-04-2019 10:59pm

slipperyox wrote: »

I don't believe many on here have a problem with laws. Its introducing them without debate, and a supposed impartial BBC presenter using his status to sway opinions.

If you want change, gradual is always more palatable to the ones affected.

Do you think non indigenous eurasian magpies should be protected and why?

I don't think Packham is supposed to be impartial, he is a wildlife presenter but whatever.

I believe that if scientific evidence deems that there is a problem with a non-indigenous species that a highly regulated set of people or companies are charged with performing a cull. Not some guy with a shotgun blasting away for a day leaving a mass of wounded birds behind him.

Perhaps I'm unlucky and live among a group of particularly uncaring shooters but I can only give you my experience.

slipperyox · 27-04-2019 11:04pm

Corvidae wrote: »

I don't think Packham is supposed to be impartial, he is a wildlife presenter but whatever.

I believe that if scientific evidence deems that there is a problem with a non-indigenous species that a highly regulated set of people or companies are charged with performing a cull. Not some guy with a shotgun blasting away for a day leaving a mass of wounded birds behind him.

Perhaps I'm unlucky and live among a group of particularly uncaring shooters but I can only give you my experience.

We in the shooting community here all agree what you have described is unacceptable, and you are within your rights to report a suspected wildlife crime and I personally encourage you to do so. There is always the <1%

Corvidae · 27-04-2019 11:16pm

slipperyox wrote: »

We in the shooting community here all agree what you have described is unacceptable, and you are within your rights to report a suspected wildlife crime and I personally encourage you to do so. There is always the <1%

Thank you. I appreciate that and hope as you say it is less than 1%.

ogsjw · 27-04-2019 11:22pm

Re-legalize fox hunting but illegalize this. Makes sense...

I agree that pest controllers should not be leaving animals alive to suffer. If you're a **** shot, use the extra cartridge and deal with it.

And then please come to Dublin and deal with the seagulls.

The pigeon man · 28-04-2019 12:29am

Kran wrote: »

Anyone successfully apply for such a license? Or is the form only there for the sake of it.

I got one of these licenses without any hassle. Just explain why you need to shoot the birds. Supply your land permission and copy of your firearms license.

I haven't got a chance to do any decoying but I'm hoping two dozen full bodied crow decoys and an electronic call will make the job easier.

cookimonster · 28-04-2019 1:20am

The pigeon man wrote: »

I got one of these licenses without any hassle. Just explain why you need to shoot the birds. Supply your land permission and copy of your firearms license.

I haven't got a chance to do any decoying but I'm hoping two dozen full bodied crow decoys and an electronic call will make the job easier.

Ahhh....... now here's were the issues start!

I am in no way questioning what your saying or have done but what you did to acquire your section 35 licence is not part of the procedure as per the application form, ie no proof of land permission, firearms certificate etc.
So this smacks of individuals in the department interpretating the nessecery requirements for issuing said licence.

Ive seen a few departmental doozies with the likes of section 42's - farms of 300 plus acres scourged with deer - 'shoot 1 stag and scare the rest' while two 4 acre fields could have a cull of 15 or more animals, or better still a 4 month long section with 1 stag only for the cull.

Your at the mercy of how much common sense that the individual who is dealing with the application actualy has. I know of one wild life ranger who wouldn't even set foot on the farm when they arrived to do an assessment in respect of a section, kept asking to be shown proof of damage, presence etc etc from the sanctity of the farm yard, this in an area riddled with deer!.

Double Barrel · 28-04-2019 1:35am

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/shooting-pigeons-crows-rooks-magpies-and-canada-geese-becomes-illegal-in-uk-105771?utm_campaign=%%emailname_%%&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ET

Chiparus · 28-04-2019 10:10am

cookimonster wrote: »

Look for the following:

WILDLIFE ACTS 1976 TO 2018 - SECTION 35 APPLICATION FOR LICENCE TO USE DECOYS, LURES, SCARECROWS.

Applications found at : https://www.npws.ie/licences/hunting

You need a licence for a scarecrow?

Half-cocked · 28-04-2019 10:43am

Chiparus wrote: »

You need a licence for a scarecrow?

Apparently. Love the section asking what qualifications the applicant has. An honours degree in scarecrowology?

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

UK Bans pigeon and crow shooting

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County