Anti-vaxxers

Amantine · 27-04-2019 7:33am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If i recall correctly this was an accident so using the word "dumped" is a little disingenuous of you.

Oh! I was an accident! Silly me! Of course it was an accident! GSK has nothing to gain from spreading polio since they offer the very vaccine that prevents it.

Beside how else can the fear mongering continue if we don't have a little polio outbreak every now and again:

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) appears to be taking the risk more seriously, however. The agency noted that the Dyle eventually joins up with the Escaut/Scheldt river, which flows through an area of the Netherlands with high populations of orthodox Protestants with low vaccination rates. This population might be at higher risk of infection if exposed to contaminated water or mud, the ECDC said.

Please note, I am not against the polio vaccine.

Erik Shun · 27-04-2019 7:36am

Amantine wrote: »

6. How effective is the new vaccine?

Studies have shown it is 100% effective in the prevention of cervical precancers and noninvasive cervical cancers caused by HPV-16 and 18 in those not already exposed to those strains, according to Merck & Co. Inc., which makes Gardasil. Merck is a WebMD sponsor.

source:https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/hpv-cervical-cancer-vaccine-15-facts#2

Precancers does not equal cancer. And most precancers will be caught in anyone who has regular smear test.

How many 12yo's get smear tests...

Amantine · 27-04-2019 7:51am

Erik Shun wrote: »

How many 12yo's get smear tests...

None! Because 12 year olds don't get cervical cancer, not from HPV anyway.
Gardasil doesn't prevent cancer in 12 year olds, it supposedly protects from 2 strains of sexually transmitted HPV which might or might not cause cancer when they get much much older. Mostly in women who drink and smoke and don't get regular smear test - which by the way are free from cervical check.

suicide_circus · 27-04-2019 7:54am

i got some vaccinations for a trip abroad and i can tell you i can feel the autism coming on

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-04-2019 8:03am

Amantine wrote: »

Oh! I was an accident! Silly me! Of course it was an accident! GSK has nothing to gain from spreading polio since they offer the very vaccine that prevents it.

Beside how else can the fear mongering continue if we don't have a little polio outbreak every now and again. Please note, I am not against the polio vaccine.

How many people do you think would/could have been infected?

The water from the treatment plant in question is not discharged to the supply network for drinking water,

Amantine · 27-04-2019 8:09am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How many people do you think would/could have been infected?

I don't think anyone knows. The fact remains that a pharmaceutical company dumped 45 litres of live, concentrated polio virus into a river!!

Amantine · 27-04-2019 8:13am

suicide_circus wrote: »

i got some vaccinations for a trip abroad and i can tell you i can feel the autism coming on

In adults it's not called autism, it's called alzheimers. You can speed it up by getting more aluminium in your system, injecting it is the best way to get it into the brain faster. Did your vaccine contain aluminium?

Erik Shun · 27-04-2019 8:20am

Amantine wrote: »

In adults it's not called autism, it's called alzheimers. You can speed it up by getting more aluminium in your system, injecting it is the best way to get it into the brain faster. Did your vaccine contain aluminium?

Aluminium is naturally present in the body...you do know that right... levels in the brain have no bearing on Alzheimer's... people have tried to claim this before with people who had raise levels... but studies had people with Alzheimer's also had lower levels...so not a factor

listermint · 27-04-2019 8:21am

Amantine wrote: »

None! Because 12 year olds don't get cervical cancer, not from HPV anyway.
Gardasil doesn't prevent cancer in 12 year olds, it supposedly protects from 2 strains of sexually transmitted HPV which might or might not cause cancer when they get much much older. Mostly in women who drink and smoke and don't get regular smear test - which by the way are free from cervical check.

Do you work on health care ?

As in are you a doctor or a research analyst?

Are you published?

If not , then why do you think your opinions matter.

Genuinely what have you done in your life that means people should listen to your opinion on anything remotely to do with healthcare.

If you are out there spreading this muck on Facebook then you are a parasite to those who know you. You actively harm others with your disinformation. Doing your best to ensure people are not properly informed by people who have actually put in the leg work on facts.

suicide_circus · 27-04-2019 8:27am

Amantine wrote: »

In adults it's not called autism, it's called alzheimers. You can speed it up by getting more aluminium in your system, injecting it is the best way to get it into the brain faster. Did your vaccine contain aluminium?

ive been chewing tin foil for years

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-04-2019 8:29am

Amantine wrote: »

I don't think anyone knows. The fact remains that a pharmaceutical company dumped 45 litres of live, concentrated polio virus into a river!!

No! You're wrong!

It was a leak it wasn't "dumped" so please stop using words that make it sound like it was deliberately done.

Tell me, why would they release it on purpose from thier own facility and then report it if it was done deliberately?

pjohnson · 27-04-2019 8:38am

Amantine wrote: »

In adults it's not called autism, it's called alzheimers. You can speed it up by getting more aluminium in your system, injecting it is the best way to get it into the brain faster. Did your vaccine contain aluminium?

And how much aluminium leads to posts like this?

Amantine · 27-04-2019 8:39am

suicide_circus wrote: »

ive been chewing tin foil for years

Aluminium is poorly absorbed that way, very small amounts will accumulate over many years. The best way to get high levels into the brain fast is by injecting it.

ancapailldorcha · 27-04-2019 8:39am

Amantine wrote: »

In adults it's not called autism, it's called alzheimers. You can speed it up by getting more aluminium in your system, injecting it is the best way to get it into the brain faster. Did your vaccine contain aluminium?

Are you serious? How can you spread such ignorance?

Autism and Dementia are completely different things. And you're spouting the same drivel about Aluminium again to complete the package.

bt25 · 27-04-2019 8:40am

Erik Shun wrote: »

Aluminium is naturally present in the body

how is it used in the body? obviously, it's there from ingestion and inhalation due to it's abundant use in recent decades but how does the body utilise it? Naturally it is bound and isn't in a pure form, that is the step we add so we wouldn't be exposed to it in that form in nature let alone in our bloodstream. not saying it does or doesn't cause damage, just asking what does it do

ancapailldorcha · 27-04-2019 8:41am

moonage wrote: »

The pharmaceutical industry is one of the most corrupt industries there is!

Anything more or is this one-liner the limit of insight on offer?

Amantine · 27-04-2019 8:52am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No! You're wrong!

It was a leak it wasn't "dumped" so please stop using words that make it sound like it was deliberately done.

Tell me, why would they release it on purpose from thier own facility and then report it if it was done deliberately?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Anything more or is this one-liner the limit of insight on offer?

As we know GlaxoSmithKline has a track record that is purer than snow.

GlaxoSmithKline has faced a number of product liability lawsuits. Patients filing lawsuits accuse the company of manufacturing dangerous or defective products.

Personal Injury Lawsuits Against GSK
Paxil

Suicidal thoughts and birth defects

NOTABLE VERDICTS
2009
Philadelphia jurors awarded $2.5 million in a Paxil lawsuit filed by the family of 3-year-old born with severe heart malformations.
2017
Chicago jurors ordered GSK to pay $3 million to the widow of a corporate attorney who killed himself after taking a generic version of Paxil not made by GSK.
NOTABLE SETTLEMENTS
2006
GSK settled thousands of addiction claims for a total of $160 million.
2010
GSK settled Paxil and pregnancy claims for $1.14 billion.
2016
GSK paid $6.2 million to settle a Canada class action lawsuit involving 50 mothers and their children.
Avandia

Strokes, heart attacks and heart failure

NOTABLE SETTLEMENTS
2010
GSK settled over 10,000 Avandia lawsuits for more than $500 million.
2011
GSK agreed to pay $250 million to settle 5,500 death and injury claims.
2011
GSK set aside $6.4 billion for future lawsuits and settlements.
Zofran

Birth defects

GSK Could Have Warned About Zofran Birth Defects, Families Say
Michelle Llamas
Michelle Llamas
November 15, 2016
LAWSUIT STATUS
GSK faced 445 Zofran lawsuits in May 2018.

Fraud, Misbranding & Failure to Report Safety Data
In 2012, GlaxoSmithKline pleaded guilty to federal criminal ofenses. The company’s crimes included misbranding of its antidepressants Paxil and Wellbutrin. GSK also failed to report safety data to the FDA about its diabetes drug Avandia.

GSK admitted to illegally promoting Paxil for treatment of depression in children.

The company reached a civil settlement with the U.S. federal government in which it agreed to pay a fine of $3 billion.

The plea represented the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history. It resolved allegations of pricing fraud.

GSK reached a related civil settlement with the U.S. Justice Department. It resolved allegations of improper marketing of Advair and Zofran.

Amantine · 27-04-2019 8:55am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Anything more or is this one-liner the limit of insight on offer?

Good morning ancapailldorcha -you yourself make a persuasive argument.

27-04-2019 8:57am

This is a dangerous thread. There is a real risk that some lives will be damaged, or, lost, as a result of threads like this.

I know there are many people who are genuinely confused and want information. They should be directed to the relevant bona fide health information sites.

As for the rest, there is no point in arguing the pros and cons of vacination with hard core anti-vaxers. They will not be swayed by evidence, even with the overwhelming evidence that exists. Some just have a world view in which there is a conspiracy against them, some are ideologically opposed to vacination (all or some vacines). There are also those who prey on these groups to sell quack medicines, cures and alleged alternative preventatives.
It is also a perfect playground for sociopathic types, who get a thrill from causing chaos that may damage people, and for those misogynists who have a particular thing with vacination for cervical cancer.

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-04-2019 9:01am

Amantine wrote: »

As we know GlaxoSmithKline has a track record that is purer than snow.

GlaxoSmithKline has faced a number of product liability lawsuits. Patients filing lawsuits accuse the company of manufacturing dangerous or defective products.

Personal Injury Lawsuits Against GSK
Paxil

Suicidal thoughts and birth defects

NOTABLE VERDICTS
2009
Philadelphia jurors awarded $2.5 million in a Paxil lawsuit filed by the family of 3-year-old born with severe heart malformations.
2017
Chicago jurors ordered GSK to pay $3 million to the widow of a corporate attorney who killed himself after taking a generic version of Paxil not made by GSK.
NOTABLE SETTLEMENTS
2006
GSK settled thousands of addiction claims for a total of $160 million.
2010
GSK settled Paxil and pregnancy claims for $1.14 billion.
2016
GSK paid $6.2 million to settle a Canada class action lawsuit involving 50 mothers and their children.
Avandia

Strokes, heart attacks and heart failure

NOTABLE SETTLEMENTS
2010
GSK settled over 10,000 Avandia lawsuits for more than $500 million.
2011
GSK agreed to pay $250 million to settle 5,500 death and injury claims.
2011
GSK set aside $6.4 billion for future lawsuits and settlements.
Zofran

Birth defects

GSK Could Have Warned About Zofran Birth Defects, Families Say
Michelle Llamas
Michelle Llamas
November 15, 2016
LAWSUIT STATUS
GSK faced 445 Zofran lawsuits in May 2018.

Fraud, Misbranding & Failure to Report Safety Data
In 2012, GlaxoSmithKline pleaded guilty to federal criminal ofenses. The company’s crimes included misbranding of its antidepressants Paxil and Wellbutrin. GSK also failed to report safety data to the FDA about its diabetes drug Avandia.

GSK admitted to illegally promoting Paxil for treatment of depression in children.

The company reached a civil settlement with the U.S. federal government in which it agreed to pay a fine of $3 billion.

The plea represented the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history. It resolved allegations of pricing fraud.

GSK reached a related civil settlement with the U.S. Justice Department. It resolved allegations of improper marketing of Advair and Zofran.

So you're not going to answer my question? What a surprise :rolleyes:

Amantine · 27-04-2019 9:02am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Are you serious? How can you spread such ignorance?

Autism and Dementia are completely different things. And you're spouting the same drivel about Aluminium again to complete the package.

"Exposure to aluminum linked to Alzheimer's disease and dementia according to the latest research. With the growing evidence linking aluminum and Alzheimer’s disease, we all need to personally take steps now to reduce our exposure to this ubiquitous metal."

I would post the finer details but it's probably too difficult for ancapailldorcha to understand. Still the details are below for everyone else.

https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/memory/aluminum-linked-to-alzheimers-disease/

Erik Shun · 27-04-2019 9:16am

Amantine wrote: »

"Exposure to aluminum linked to Alzheimer's disease and dementia according to the latest research. With the growing evidence linking aluminum and Alzheimer’s disease, we all need to personally take steps now to reduce our exposure to this ubiquitous metal."

I would post the finer details but it's probably too difficult for ancapailldorcha to understand. Still the details are below for everyone else.

https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/memory/aluminum-linked-to-alzheimers-disease/

https://alzheimer.ca/en/Home/About-dementia/Alzheimer-s-disease/Risk-factors/Aluminum

ancapailldorcha · 27-04-2019 9:21am

Amantine wrote: »

"Exposure to aluminum linked to Alzheimer's disease and dementia according to the latest research. With the growing evidence linking aluminum and Alzheimer’s disease, we all need to personally take steps now to reduce our exposure to this ubiquitous metal."

I would post the finer details but it's probably too difficult for ancapailldorcha to understand. Still the details are below for everyone else.

https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/memory/aluminum-linked-to-alzheimers-disease/

It's really, really basic knowledge that compounds are different from their constituent elements. I don't know why you're struggling with this.

Sofiztikated · 27-04-2019 9:30am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28919482

"Infant B-Al and H-Al varied considerably but did not correlate with their immunization history. Likewise, there was no correlation between B-Al and infant development or between H-Al and language or cognitive development. An inverse correlation between H-Al and BSID motor scores deserves further investigation."

The belief in aluminium being harmful is a fringe science. And the fact that aluminium is the 3rd most common substance and we've survived how many years now?

ancapailldorcha · 27-04-2019 9:33am

1641 wrote: »

This is a dangerous thread. There is a real risk that some lives will be damaged, or, lost, as a result of threads like this.

I know there are many people who are genuinely confused and want information. They should be directed to the relevant bona fide health information sites.

As for the rest, there is no point in arguing the pros and cons of vacination with hard core anti-vaxers. They will not be swayed by evidence, even with the overwhelming evidence that exists. Some just have a world view in which there is a conspiracy against them, some are ideologically opposed to vacination (all or some vacines). There are also those who prey on these groups to sell quack medicines, cures and alleged alternative preventatives.
It is also a perfect playground for sociopathic types, who get a thrill from causing chaos that may damage people, and for those misogynists who have a particular thing with vacination for cervical cancer.

This is the problem with anti-vaxxers.

Anyone intelligent enough to ask for proof isn't going to be fooled by the whataboutery, text dumps, lack of evidence, blog posts and general spamming. Ditto for the utilisation of autistic children to one-up random people on the internet, even one's own.

The point behind this hateful ideology of ignorance designed to make them feel special is that they're trying to convince people who don't come from scientific, technical backgrounds. Unlike research and pharma, they are completely unregulated and can say what they want. Some of them even make a nice living out of this. If GSK abused children, there'd be an enquiry following by prison terms. Andrew Wakefield got to be a millionaire.

The world is getting ever more complex and until we find ways to come to terms with this, people are going to find simplistic (read BS) answers quite alluring. This is the reason behind a lot of the anti-vaxxer spam tactics. The conspiracy angle feeds into this as well. We like plucky underdogs. It's ingrained in our cultural DNA. Then you see the links to dodgy blogs, pseudo-health products like vitamins peddled by the likes of Alex Jones and his ilk. It's an industry that's earning of some people's narcissistic need to feel special, different from the pack.

It's supposed to wear out the skeptics so that they can create an echo chamber. Works well on Facebook. Forums like this are a different matter. It's important to call out this carry one wherever it appears.

The really dangerous thing is that anti vaxxers have poisoned the well. With the best will and regulation in the world, it is only possible to do so much to prevent contaminated medical products from getting released. Any time it does, anti vaxxers will latch onto it and use it to push their hateful agenda.

MrFresh · 27-04-2019 9:56am

Can we look at this claim that autism is the same disease as alzheimers? This is a new one for me. Where does it come from?

ancapailldorcha · 27-04-2019 9:58am

MrFresh wrote: »

Can we look at this claim that autism is the same disease as alzheimers? This is a new one for me. Where does it come from?

It nonsense and belongs in the bin. Looks like the latest anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory intended to shore up the Aluminium fiction.

Rechuchote · 27-04-2019 10:03am

suicide_circus wrote: »

I thought we were pro choice, no?

Until the first child brain damaged or health damaged by measles sues their parents, and the first child who gets cancer sues her (or his, boys can get HPV too) parents, for refusing to vaccinate and damaging their health. Or the State sues individuals who have refused to vaccinate their kids and have cause a devastating epidemic…

Quandary · 27-04-2019 10:20am

MrFresh wrote: »

Can we look at this claim that autism is the same disease as alzheimers? This is a new one for me. Where does it come from?

It sounds like a perfectly cromulent idea, and it really embiggens the claims underpinning it.

Rechuchote · 27-04-2019 10:23am

MrFresh wrote: »

Can we look at this claim that autism is the same disease as alzheimers? This is a new one for me. Where does it come from?

It comes from a fraudulent 'study' by someone who was later struck off for fraud. It is cruel and harmful nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Anti-vaxxers

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