Anti-vaxxers

pjohnson

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Are parents here actually agreeing with the state injecting their own children without their permission

Well they can refuse to have them vaccinated but the parents then take responsibility to educate them at home and dont leave them with the educated parents with vaxxed children.

banie01

Saw this over on Reddit a few times over the last few weeks and kept forgetting to share it here...
It's real spiritual home

SEPT 23 1989

judeboy101 wrote: »

State did it 1930's-1970's with children in mother and baby homes, gave permission to vaccine companies to inoculate without parental consent or knowledge.

That's the biggest scandal of them all

Have we the names of these drug peddlers

Where is the money?

ancapailldorcha

judeboy101 wrote: »

State did it 1930's-1970's with children in mother and baby homes, gave permission to vaccine companies to inoculate without parental consent or knowledge.

Have you a source for this?

pjohnson

banie01 wrote: »

Saw this over on Reddit a few times over the last few weeks and kept forgetting to share it here...
It's real spiritual home

Ahahaha

Amantine

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Have you a source for this?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-vaccine-trials-were-kept-secret-by-the-state-26675516.html

Capt'n Midnight

MountainAshIRL wrote: »

I don't understand how you can call that article an anecdote. It's based on a study by scientists at Harvard, generally considered the best of the best when it comes to medicine. They are suggesting another dose of mmr to boost mumps immunity.

The anecdotes are the people I know who have permanent disabilities from preventable diseases.

It's personal.

Amantine

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That's the biggest scandal of them all

Have we the names of these drug peddlers

Where is the money?

Glaksosmithkline
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-vaccine-trials-were-kept-secret-by-the-state-26675516.html

banie01

Amantine wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/new-bessborough-revelations-show-wider-range-of-products-tested-on-children-453349.html

That's for lactose and baby milk.
The request was for a source on the purported vaccine experimentation?

Granted my own placenta was used for whatever experimental work they were at between but that was St Finbarrs and not Bessborough.

So do you have sources related to vaccine experimentation?

ancapailldorcha

Amantine wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/new-bessborough-revelations-show-wider-range-of-products-tested-on-children-453349.html

No harsh words for the government?

Amantine

TheRepentent wrote: »

The supposedly aggressive schedule is decided by the spread of disease surely?


With the recent outbreaks of measles world wide due to anti-vax fukwits leads to that vaccine being pushed. And pushed agrresvilely due to the serious side affects of measles

She is talking about the vaccine schedule in the US for babies for all vaccines, not just measles.

Amantine

banie01 wrote: »

That's for lactose and baby milk.
The request was for a source on the purported vaccine experimentation?

Granted my own placenta was used for whatever experimental work they were at between but that was St Finbarrs and not Bessborough.

So do you have sources related to vaccine experimentation?

sorry, my mistake, here it is:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-vaccine-trials-were-kept-secret-by-the-state-26675516.html

Amantine

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That's the biggest scandal of them all

Have we the names of these drug peddlers

Where is the money?

I posted the wrong link, it's here:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-vaccine-trials-were-kept-secret-by-the-state-26675516.html

Amantine

Actually it appears that it has been going on since the 1930's and on over 2000 children but for some reason I can't find much news coverage so not sure. https://www.thefix.com/content/irish-orphans-used-drug-guinea-pigs-1930s-unveiled-records-show

SEPT 23 1989

Mengele would have been proud

AtomicHorror

DublinWriter wrote: »

There is nothing straight-forward about academia. It's all about political manoeuvring and brinkmanship. You really are misguided if you think the sole noble ambition of academia is to be altruistic. Now throw in corporate money and things really start to get rotten.

Don't believe me? Try working in academia sometime yourself.

I've worked in academia. Primary research in the life sciences. Your characterisation is a massive exaggeration.

DublinWriter wrote: »

Be aware of a model called thesis - antithesis - synthesis. To cut it short, if you go against the Orwellian Groupthink, then you will be cut down.

Consider American geochemist Clair Patterson, who for years was degraded as a 'crank' for wanting to get rid of lead from petrol and CFCs from aerosol products.

Again, Joseph Lister. Lister's ideas were mocked and in 1873 The Lancet warned the entire medical profession against his progressive ideas.

Plate tectonics? Again, Alfred Wegener was seen by many in academia as a crank. His 1912 publication of his theory of continental drift, which was a controversy in the field through the 1950s was only universally accepted by academia as late as 1966.

That's only three examples from the top of my head. Dozens, if not hundreds more are extant.

Carl Sagan summed up the response to this argument.

Sagan wrote:

...the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

Yes, scientists vigorously resist overturning the status quo model, but the reason for that is because while the status quo model is always inaccurate, it is almost always the most accurate model supported by the evidence at any given time. Most of the time, when someone proposes revolution, they are a crank.

That doesn't excuse underhanded responses, of course.

DublinWriter wrote: »

I am pro-vaccination, but I believe more research needs to be carried out into the current aggressive schedule.

On what basis? I already challenged this assertion you made and you ignored my reply.

Children are exposed to enormous volumes and variety of new antigens every single day- surely on the order of thousands to millions in their first few years. Why is the addition of a few dozen low-volume antigens a concern in that context?

DublinWriter wrote: »

Proper, grown up debate on this subject has now become virtually impossible because for many, this debate is just so much as a interesting Internet diversion to practise their gain-saying school debating skills. On both sides.

They're not parents of children with Autism, they've never worked in Big Pharma, and in short, they've no real skin in the game.

I've worked in Big Pharma, but mostly mentioning that results in cries of "shill". Notably whenever the parent of non-neurotypical person or a non-neurotypical person comments on the subject, their main feeling is annoyance at their phenotype being used as a bogeyman to scare people.

Rechuchote

I'm outa here. Too much bat****ness for the morning.

Amantine

Rechuchote wrote: »

I'm outa here. Too much bat****ness for the morning.

I agree, it's all just too strange, it's pretty much just a waste of time. Nothing is ever established, the criteria to decide what information is valid are completely random/illogical and the arguments based on the opinion of the majority/rudest person. Everything is simplified until it's black and white, in a way that real science could never be.

AtomicHorror

Amantine wrote: »

I agree, it's all just too strange, it's pretty much just a waste of time. Nothing is ever established, the criteria to decide what information is valid are completely random/illogical and the arguments based on the opinion of the majority/rudest person. Everything is simplified until it's black and white, in a way that real science could never be.

I've never met a scientist who did not understand that our role was to try to draw lines within the grey areas, to make a useful model. Effectively, to render the grey areas into black and white, while always accepting that this model is flawed and temporary. So in fact your appraisal of science is flat wrong- it's our business to simplify.

I've never met a pseudoscientist who was not keenly aware of the scope to exploit the grey areas, to draw the lines wherever suited them, or nowhere if that suited better. To always query whether the truth is knowable, open to infinite vacillation. Ever seeking to put all knowledge into doubt, so as to make truth belong to whoever is most charismatic or best able to manipulate emotions, but always using the language of the scientist to cast their opponents as illogical.

MrFresh

Amantine wrote: »

More people die of diarrhoea worldwide than measles. It's sad, but these epidemics are outside of the western world. Thankfully measles deaths are pretty much unheard of here. Measles vaccine deaths are also very rare. In both cases, scientists say the patients tend to have preexisting conditions.

Measles vaccine deaths?

Igotadose

Nice data aggregator site tracking this years measles epidemics worldwide: https://www.epidemictracker.com/?pathogen=Measles%20virus

More details on it here: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/2019-measles-outbreak-tracker/

Igotadose

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I've never met a scientist who did not understand that our role was to try to draw lines within the grey areas, to make a useful model. Effectively, to render the grey areas into black and white, while always accepting that this model is flawed and temporary. So in fact your appraisal of science is flat wrong- it's our business to simplify.

I've never met a pseudoscientist who was not keenly aware of the scope to exploit the grey areas, to draw the lines wherever suited them, or nowhere if that suited better. To always query whether the truth is knowable, open to infinite vacillation. Ever seeking to put all knowledge into doubt, so as to make truth belong to whoever is most charismatic or best able to manipulate emotions, but always using the language of the scientist to cast their opponents as illogical.

Either this, or Jaqing. That shows up here all the time.

Pinch Flat

Anyone know if a vaccine for stupidity is being developed? Few on here could do with it.

Capt'n Midnight

MrFresh wrote: »

Measles vaccine deaths?

Oh yeah it's up there with mobile phone radiation deaths

vs

the number of lives saved by calling emergency services using a mobile.



Though I fear that if the herd immunity is lost some immunosuppressed people may have to put themselves at risk because of a greater risk they have no control over.


A reminder too that measles , like other serious diseases, can compromise your immune system for a time. So even if you fully recover from it you are still at risk from other things for years.



With measles the only risk free strategy is to eradicate the disease. Once that's done the risks are gone forever.

Every other option means exposing future generations to pain, disability and death.

DublinWriter

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Children are exposed to enormous volumes and variety of new antigens every single day- surely on the order of thousands to millions in their first few years. Why is the addition of a few dozen low-volume antigens a concern in that context?

There's a big difference between direct injection into the bloodstream and exposure to airborne or ingested toxins. The GI tract will happily expel toxins such as mercury.

If anyone could point me in the way of studies based on examining the Immunisation Schedule in-toto I'd be grateful.

I'm just concerned that the 'more-and-earlier' approach is failing. Could it be that we're over-taxing developing immune systems with too many antigens at the same time? Even with 'dead' antigens, action is still needed on the part of the immune system to learn to develop antibodies.

Dohnjoe

DublinWriter wrote: »

I am pro-vaccination, but I believe more research needs to be carried out into the current aggressive schedule.

They're not parents of children with Autism, they've never worked in Big Pharma, and in short, they've no real skin in the game.

Big Pharma? what game?

There's no proven link between vaccines and autism. Do you agree with that?

jh79

DublinWriter wrote: »

There's a big difference between direct injection into the bloodstream and exposure to airborne or ingested toxins. The GI tract will happily expel toxins such as mercury.

If anyone could point me in the way of studies based on examining the Immunisation Schedule in-toto I'd be grateful.

I'm just concerned that the 'more-and-earlier' approach is failing. Could it be that we're over-taxing developing immune systems with too many antigens at the same time? Even with 'dead' antigens, action is still needed on the part of the immune system to learn to develop antibodies.

Common claim by anti- vaxxers. Here is a discussion on why such a study isn't necessary.

"No matter how you slice it, the vaccine schedule represents a miniscule exposure to antigens and organisms compared to what people encounter as part of life. Worrying about the exposure from the vaccine schedule is like worrying about a thimble of water getting you wet when you are swimming in an ocean."


https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-infection-schedule-vrs-the-vaccination-schedule/

Capt'n Midnight

jh79 wrote: »

Worrying about the exposure from the vaccine schedule is like worrying about a thimble of water getting you wet when you are swimming in an ocean."

Good god !

There's hundreds of thousands of viruses in the ocean :eek:

Amantine

jh79 wrote: »

Common claim by anti- vaxxers. Here is a discussion on why such a study isn't necessary.

"No matter how you slice it, the vaccine schedule represents a miniscule exposure to antigens and organisms compared to what people encounter as part of life. Worrying about the exposure from the vaccine schedule is like worrying about a thimble of water getting you wet when you are swimming in an ocean."


https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-infection-schedule-vrs-the-vaccination-schedule/

Ah yes, sciencebasedmedicine! The self appointed expert with a blog and 0 credentials! It has "science" and "medicine" in the name, that's what makes it a very reliable source!!

Amantine

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Good god !

There's hundreds of thousands of viruses in the ocean :eek:

We better vaccinate against every single one of them!!