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Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

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    #812
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    I see sheep wrote: »
    UK Government - Universal Credit .. yes it is bonkers

    Slightly off topic, but the UK's 'Universal Credit' is nothing whatsoever like what is sounds like, and nothing like one of the potential POTUS20 candidates is offering i.e. 'Universal Income' ($1k free every month, for everyone).

    There is no harm in anyone offering funds to NDC: Paris is the world's #1 tourist destination, and this would likely be up in the top3 sights (even moreso once repaired), so any investment will pay for itself over time.

    Anyone can avail of the shelter it provides (within reason) via general (some slight exceptions) free admission. The Louve is only free entry at very specific times, or conditions, and the Eiffel Tower has various costs of entry.


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    #813
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Effects wrote: »
    Who ever suggested giving the money as direct cash payments to homeless/needy? That's bonkers.

    This is getting ridiculous.

    Start a thread about the homeless and I will be more than happy to discuss it there.

    The fact is the French spend billions on helping the homeless every year. Its a separate issue.

    The taxes of the super rich also pay for the homeless.

    The idea that Notre Dame which draws millions of people every year who in turn contribute millions in tax, should be allowed to lay in ruins so the homeless can be given priority is just a nonsense full stop.


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    #814
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    The French already had an opportunity to tax the rich (everyone earning over €400,000pa) at 100%
    - via Jean-Luc Mélenchon in the last election (who did ok considering).

    They instead (rightly or wrongly) went with Macron.

    If they went with Mél, perhaps the NDC would have been repaired already, and thus no fire?

    The French would also by now (potentially) have:

    Working week to four days
    More vacation days for workers
    Raise minimum wage by 16%
    Increase the tax on inherited wealth
    Abandon nuclear power; 100% renewable energy by 2050
    No new free trade agreements
    Leave NATO, the International Monetary Fund and the World Trade Organization
    Nationalize French energy company EDF and gas provider Engie

    But on the other hand, they would also see an exodus of thousands of millionaires.
    e.g. Actor: G.Depardieu, has already moved over to Rus, to save a few dolla'.


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    #815
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?


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    #816
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,500 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

    Eejit.


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    #817
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

    What an utterly moronic post.


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    #818
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    I'm just listening to the fire service press conference. It seems they did use fire fighting robots which had been on standby part of the Grand Paris Express (huge new metro) project that's on going at the moment.

    So the were in the roof in a more nuanced way than air dropping with water.

    They have gear for fire fighting in tight spaces and underground and so on because of the nature or the city they work in and to avoid putting crews and the public in danger.


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    #819
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Name one.

    The GPO


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    #820
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

    Reminding his followers why these buildings are here. Making people appreciate what was built and why it was built.

    When you go into the Notre Dame Cathedral you are told to removed your hat. It's a sharp reminder that it isn't just a tourist attraction. It is a place of worship.


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    #821
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Reminding his followers why these buildings are here. Making people appreciate what was built and why it was built.

    When you go into the Notre Dame Cathedral you are told to removed your hat. It's a sharp reminder that it isn't just a tourist attraction. It is a place of worship.

    Not a believer in that sense of the word - but I would agree that God(s) are generally known to work in mysterious ways ;)


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    #822
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Reminding his followers why these buildings are here. Making people appreciate what was built and why it was built.

    When you go into the Notre Dame Cathedral you are told to removed your hat. It's a sharp reminder that it isn't just a tourist attraction. It is a place of worship.
    Your God wore a hat to worship his God!

    IN A SYNAGOGUE!


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    #823
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,619 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Hard to believe there wasn't a serious fire watch during renovations in a building that's basically a pile of tinder.

    Hot works permits and an hour fire watch after hot works are completed are fairly standard in the construction industry. Well here anyway.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #824
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    A few questions for those in the know:

    1. Will the new roof beams be made of wood?
    2. Maybe steel clad in wood?
    3. Will they install a sprinkler system?

    1. Yes, almost certainly. They will either import hardwood for trusses or more likely use glulam.
    2. I imagine it's unlikely they will use steel
    3. The most advanced fire suppression systems will be installed to prevent a repeat.

    After disasters like this, restorers generally will repair what can be repaired with the correct historic methods and replace what has to be replaced with modern sympathetic materials. Buildings like these tell the story of their history, and the fire is now very much part of it. The new roof will tell that history so trying to mimic the old one would betray the story.


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    #825
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Feisar wrote: »
    Hard to believe there wasn't a serious fire watch during renovations in a building that's basically a pile of tinder.

    Hot works permits and an hour fire watch after hot works are completed are fairly standard in the construction industry. Well here anyway.
    I'd say they have already made more money than the cost of refurbishment.
    Is the whole thing a publicity stunt?


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    #826
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    I'd say they have already made more money than the cost of refurbishment.
    Is the whole thing a publicity stunt?

    This post is the equivalent of 1000 monkeys at 1000 typewriters

    Except I'm guessing its 1000 idiots smashing their faces against 1000 keyboards.


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    #827
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    This post is the equivalent of 1000 monkeys at 1000 typewriters

    Except I'm guessing its 1000 idiots smashing their faces against 1000 keyboards.

    One of good things about these threads is that it helps to identify the Philistines, trolls, clowns, fools, conspiracy theorists, one-issue wonders, and downright ignorant amongst us.


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    #828
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    why it was built.
    To legitimise the confiscation of Jewish assets?


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    #829
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    One of good things about these threads is that it helps to identify the Philistines, trolls, clowns, fools, conspiracy theorists, one-issue wonders, and downright ignorant amongst us.
    One of the great things about posts like the above is that they identify the crawling things that shamble from some marsh of ignorance and mindlessly repeat the platitudes of childhood.


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    #830
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,124 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    One of the great things about posts like the above is that they identify the crawling things that shamble from some marsh of ignorance and mindlessly repeat the platitudes of childhood.

    Why are you such an angry little bunny today ? I hope tomorrow brings you more peaceful tranquility


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    #831
    Mollyb60
    Registered Users Posts: 6,578 ✭✭✭Mollyb60


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    1. Yes, almost certainly. They will either import hardwood for trusses or more likely use glulam.
    2. I imagine it's unlikely they will use steel
    3. The most advanced fire suppression systems will be installed to prevent a repeat.

    After disasters like this, restorers generally will repair what can be repaired with the correct historic methods and replace what has to be replaced with modern sympathetic materials. Buildings like these tell the story of their history, and the fire is now very much part of it. The new roof will tell that history so trying to mimic the old one would betray the story.

    I may be wrong but I remember being told by a fire engineer that the reason the Renee Mackintosh building in Glasgow caught on fire the second time and went up so easily is that Scottish heritage legislation requires any renovation work to historic listed buildings be carried out in the same manner with the same materials and to the same standards as the original building. So it was rebuilt the same way and shockingly caught fire again.

    I'm all for repairing as much as is reasonably practicable but the lessons need to be learned so that this doesn't happen again. I'm not sure what sprinklers could do in the event of a fire in the roof again apart from protect the rest of the building. IMO the new roof and spire should be constructed from fire resistant modern materials as much as possible.


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    #832
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Mollyb60 wrote: »
    I may be wrong but I remember being told by a fire engineer that the reason the Renee Mackintosh building in Glasgow caught on fire the second time and went up so easily is that Scottish heritage legislation requires any renovation work to historic listed buildings be carried out in the same manner with the same materials and to the same standards as the original building. So it was rebuilt the same way and shockingly caught fire again.

    They hadn't installed the new sprinkler system which would have prevented the fire from spreading.


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    #833
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    fryup wrote: »
    i say all the poor & homeless in France are feeling rightly p!ssed off...where were all these wealthy businessmen with their donations when these the less fortunate needed it??

    Something not quite right when 700,000,000 or whatever could do so much more elsewhere.


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    #834
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Happy to see hundreds of millions pledged for a great project, rather than thrown away on the charity and social welfare industry. This hundreds of millions will support thousands of skilled workers (note for emphasis - workers), who will be employed for years building something that the French can look at with pride.


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    #835
    Fastidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Fastidious


    hmmm wrote: »
    Happy to see hundreds of millions pledged for a great project, rather than thrown away on the charity and social welfare industry. This hundreds of millions will support thousands of skilled workers (note for emphasis - workers), who will be employed for years building something that the French can look at with pride.
    Seems like an awful lot for a building and why should Irish taxpayers be footing the bill. Meanwhile children are starving in Africa..scandalous


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    #836
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Fastidious wrote: »
    why should Irish taxpayers be footing the bill.

    How are we footing the bill?


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    #837
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Effects wrote: »
    How are we footing the bill?

    EU funds.


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    #838
    vargoo
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭vargoo


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Building insurance normally covers the cost of rebuilding or repair.
    What insurance company would cover a building that could potentially cost billions to rebuild if it was damaged or destroyed?

    Who insured the twin towers? They paid out 4.5 billion.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Silverstein


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    #839
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    As a country we give the bones of E750 million per annum to Overseas Aid. Taxpayers do not have a choice in this.

    We welcome people from these countries as asylum seekers and pay for them also.

    We are bombarded every day by TW charities looking for more.

    Has much improved in these countries, given that we are just minnows, other countries donate much more also.

    I think we are being conned quite frankly, but the received wisdom is we should give more.

    Delighted to see the philanthropists supporting the rebuilding of ND. That will last a lot longer than aid to Third World and will be visible and enjoyed by many.


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    #840
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    One of the great things about posts like the above is that they identify the crawling things that shamble from some marsh of ignorance and mindlessly repeat the platitudes of childhood.
    Jaysus, I'd say you spent some time thinking that up. Probably sounded better in your head too. These things usually do.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #841
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,631 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Jaysus, I'd say you spent some time thinking that up. Probably sounded better in your head too. These things usually do.

    Sounds almost like it's written by a Nigerian prince.


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