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John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭secman


    Dunphy on RTÉ again saying he doesn’t think it’s that big a deal.

    He humming and hawing hesitating about what to say.

    Nobody takes what Dunphy says seriously he's just so nonsensical, irrelevant to football in Ireland, no idea why anyone employs him on radio.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    First thing needs doing is stop the expense of Mazars and GT 'reports'. There gonna be an obvious whitewash and not worth the paper there gonna be written on.

    Then a full forsenic audit. Delaney ousted his predecessor over a 200e miss use of a credit card, should the same rules not be applied to him?

    Time for the board to move on. Two terms of 4yrs each Max for any new board member. Independent members of the board to keep an eye on it. Detailed public accounts. Time to learn from this and ensure we're never brought up this path again... If only the Genesis report was implemented.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    A couple of observations....

    The credit card stuff: is there anything new here? Don't get me wrong, it shows the pattern of behaviour that illustrates that JD treated the FAI as his own personal bank, but when JD was buying pints for 'real fans' and being a decent skin for away fans, who did everyone think was footing the bill? Delaney? Are you serious? It's a bit rich everyone jumping up and down now, when they have tolerated his behavior for many years.

    It's funny in a way the fancy shirts play a part.... Echos of CH and the Charvet shirts.

    Re:the tickets and IMG deal.... Someone said the tickets were worth 200 million, and the FAI (Delaney et al) refused 75 million. It's clear they weren't worth 200M, because they couldn't sell them. They are only worth the money the market will pay, and it's clear that the real value was closer to 75 than 200M,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    dont the revenue have strict rules on expenses. doubt they are too impressed with someone using a creditcard to withdraw cash.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Exactly, you should be able to cancel online. The fact they're going through the extra expense of having people phone up just means they'll try to give you the run-around. I'd pay for it no problem but I'd like the freedom to be able to cancel 6, 12, 14, etc months down the line whenever I'd like. Luckily I just copped it before I submitted the payment.

    My girlfriend cancelled last month. They offered her a cheaper package, she declined. It took less than a minute and it’s a free phone number.

    Whatever way you look at it - €5 a week for 6 daily newspapers and one Sunday newspaper is a proper bargain. If people won’t sign up at that price newspapers are doomed and the John Delaney’s of the future will get away with it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    Dunphy is a fecking idiot cut from the same cloth! Any football person that has any sort of interest in the game here wouldn’t take him seriously!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,654 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Eamo stopped being relevant many moons ago.

    He's asked to speak now more for comedy value. Bit like car-crash punditry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    mugsymugsy wrote: »
    Please tell me you are joking

    I hate Delaney.

    But the front story in times is a joke.

    There is no context to any of the spending and no matter how much we hate him.
    All sorts of stuff will be entertainment and justified at ceo level from an expense perspective.

    Out of all this , do we know anything he did wrong ?

    Dunphy is crazy . But he is getting at something.

    30 years ago when I started going to Irish games . International soccer was in a bad place.

    Yes the domestic game needs investment. But significant things have been done at underage level.

    He has done good things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    irishgeo wrote: »
    dont the revenue have strict rules on expenses. doubt they are too impressed with someone using a creditcard to withdraw cash.

    There has to be a business cause you can’t just use Company card for anything, he will try worm around it saying he was dining clients or something


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Mahony0509


    I hate Delaney.

    But the front story in times is a joke.

    There is no context to any of the spending and no matter how much we hate him.
    All sorts of stuff will be entertainment and justified at ceo level from an expense perspective.

    Out of all this , do we know anything he did wrong ?

    Dunphy is crazy . But he is getting at something.

    30 years ago when I started going to Irish games . International soccer was in a bad place.

    Yes the domestic game needs investment. But significant things have been done at underage level.

    He has done good things.

    Do you genuinely believe that its okay that an employee of the FAI used the company credit card to purchase €40k worth of ‘luxury goods’ in a six month period? Are you insane?

    Underage level? The LOI underage structure is a joke. An U13 league? Players get to U19 and fall off the radar because the ‘pathway’ is so far away from actual LOI football that none of them are able. Get a grip, open your eyes.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    major bill wrote: »
    There has to be a business cause you can’t just use Company card for anything, he will try worm around it saying he was dining clients or something

    in a pub in wicklow every weekend. yeah that will wash.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    howiya wrote: »
    What sort of goals would you set? Increased commercial revenue being the obvious one. I think an organisation with the make up of the FAI would struggle to set realistic and measurable goals which would then make the remuneration package unattractive.


    Off the top of my head...
    1. Ticket sales

    2. Merchandising/commercial revenue
    3. Budget targets/Debt management

    4. Employee turnover
    5. Employee satisfaction
    6. Team performance/Qualification bonus

    7. LOI performance
    8. LOI Euro qualification
    9. LOI/Grassroots satisfaction

    10. CORPORATE GOVERNANCE/TRANSPARANCY


    the list goes on.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,337 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Has the minster for sport anything to say about all this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Mahony0509 wrote: »
    Do you genuinely believe that its okay that an employee of the FAI used the company credit card to purchase €40k worth of ‘luxury goods’ in a six month period? Are you insane?

    It isn't as much as you think at that level. Some dude could order a bottle if wine for 200 plus .

    It's the wealthiest sport in the world. They are mixing with the highest highest level at corporate and political level.

    You don't bring a top level fifa lad to wowburger or meet him in a holiday inn. People will find it hard to accept that , but it is the reality of the world.

    If he spent 4/5 k on a trip . Got us a big international match or event it's money well spent, or may I add a couple of million from FIFA or a sponsor.

    It's just too simple to go, he spent loads of money . Disgrace.

    Again the expenses seem high . But there needs to be context .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    Mahony0509 wrote: »
    Do you genuinely believe that its okay that an employee of the FAI used the company credit card to purchase €40k worth of ‘luxury goods’ in a six month period? Are you insane?

    It isn't as much as you think at that level. Some dude could order a bottle if wine for 200 plus .

    It's the wealthiest sport in the world. They are mixing with the highest highest level at corporate and political level.

    You don't bring a top level fifa lad to wowburger or meet him in a holiday inn. People will find it hard to accept that , but it is the reality of the world.

    If he spent 4/5 k on a trip . Got us a big international match or event it's money well spent, or may I add a couple of million from FIFA or a sponsor.

    It's just too simple to go, he spent loads of money . Disgrace.

    Again the expenses seem high . But there needs to be context .

    Which is acceptable in most businesses but it’s been found he wasn’t using it for Corporate use he was using it in his local and using it to dine friends and family, this isn’t acceptable and is abusing the company card!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    There is no regard for money. Sporting ireland should withdraw our taxpayer funding. They’d more more wary of wasting cash then. Offering expensive contract renewals for highly paid managers at idiotic times etc ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    Regarding the credit card....we will have to wait and see if he is being honest in the background which I doubt. The question is was he paying non business expenses back to his employer...nothing that a forensic audit wouldnt expose. But then again...maybe thats why they dont want one........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Has the minster for sport anything to say about all this?

    we will find out tuesday, he is due in front of the committee , although as leo said the fai isnt a public body so they cant do much about it. If they are spending the grant money for what its supposed to be used they wont be able to do much about it.

    The sponsors would be the ones to watch. Cant see many been too impressed if the FAI are wasting their money on drinks in the local in wicklow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    sugarman wrote: »
    Credit card fiasco aside, I think this Independent article is the closest explanation of the €100k loan to date and it appears there are serious cash flow issues within the FAI. As in the €100k was actually needed on top of their €1.5m overdrafts to keep the FAI afloat.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/second-club-had-problems-securing-fai-prize-cash-and-grants-38012760.html

    This article is interesting too

    http://https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/new-concerns-raised-around-fai-in-protected-disclosure-including-questions-about-john-giles-foundation-38012763.html

    all around the time DOB stopped paying the wages of the manager and assistant manager.

    the wage bill of Delaney the board and keane and o'neill must have been a huge outlay.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You don't bring a top level fifa lad to wowburger or meet him in a holiday inn. People will find it hard to accept that , but it is the reality of the world...

    Well he definitely wasn't bringing them to a pub in Wicklow.

    With all the benefits he was getting, and the types of benefits, it sounds like the people who should be carrying out an audit are not Grant Thornton, but the Revenue Commissioners.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Engagement with the Football Association of Ireland https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_tourism_and_sport/2019-04-10/3/
    On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 we had an internal finance meeting at the FAI. This meeting was attended by our director of finance, Mr. Eamon Breen, our financial controller Ms Yvonne Tsang, and me as the CEO. At this meeting I was advised that if all cheques and FAI bank transfers issued to third parties at that time were presented for payment that the FAI would exceed its overdraft limit of €1.5 million on its bank accounts, which were held with Bank of Ireland. I expressed concern and surprise at the meeting as to how the FAI could have arrived at this position. I recall thinking at the time that if I had been approached even a few days earlier I may have been able to better address the issue. I asked if any funds were due to the FAI that could resolve the matter and I was informed that there was nothing due imminently that could be confirmed at that stage.

    As the matter was pressing and we only had a few hours to resolve the potential issues that would arise if the bank overdraft limit was exceeded, as a precautionary measure and to assist the FAI I wrote a cheque for €100,000 from my personal account to the FAI. This cheque was made payable to the FAI and I gave it to our director of finance, Eamon Breen, telling him to only lodge the cheque if it became clear that the bank overdraft was going to be exceeded.

    Later that afternoon I travelled to London and the next day I travelled on to Geneva, Switzerland, where I was attending UEFA business on behalf of the FAI. I recall phoning our honorary secretary, Mr. Michael Cody informing him that I had made a precautionary payment to the FAI by way of a personal cheque for €100,000 to assist in the event that the bank overdraft was going to be exceeded. I informed him that I was very concerned and that I had to act quickly to assist the Football Association of Ireland. I recall also informing the then president Mr. Tony Fitzgerald who was chairman of the board at the time.

    The following day while I was in Geneva I received a call from our director of finance, Eamon Breen, informing me that there was a requirement to lodge the cheque by €100,000 and he subsequently confirmed that request to me by email. I agreed that the cheque should be lodged. I asked the director of finance when I would be paid back and he said it would be as soon as the funds came in.

    I subsequently received a cheque for €100,000 on 16 June 2017 from the Football Association of Ireland, repaying the amount in full and which I lodged to my personal account on 23 June 2017. I did not receive any interest payment and I would never have expected it. I was only acting to assist the FAI and for the benefit of Irish football.

    I recall asking the director of finance, Eamon Breen, if the FAI had any reporting or disclosure obligations arising out of the €100,000 payment. There was a board meeting on Monday, 19 June 2017 and the €100,000 payment did not arise.
    FAI had Dundalk's €2.2m prizemoney for 11 months https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fai-had-dundalks-2-2m-prizemoney-for-11-months-37978067.html
    The value of the consolation prize was €3m for falling at the final Champions League hurdle and a €2.6m Europa League group stage participation fee. UEFA payment dates released by their spokesperson show that the participation fee was paid out on October 7, 2016.

    Dundalk were also due prizemoney for progressing through the early stage Champions League rounds, and won a further €480,000 on the pitch in the Europa League group stages.

    Well-placed sources have indicated that Dundalk received close to €3m in the final months of 2016 with the substantial balance to be settled in 2017.

    It is understood that Dundalk's then owners - businessmen Andy Connolly and Paul Brown - were keen on an arrangement where the FAI would hold onto the European money and then release it upon request in the form of staggered payments.

    According to one FAI source, they "got the money when they asked for it." This claim is not disputed by Dundalk insiders with a knowledge of the relationship.

    The drip feed became a problem when Dundalk were approached in the latter half of 2017 by an American consortium led by investment company Peak6.
    Dundalk faced delays after writing to John Delaney seeking their €300,000 https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/dundalk-faced-delays-after-writing-to-john-delaney-seeking-their-300000-38007872.html
    Dundalk earned close to €7m from a Europa League run under Stephen Kenny, and were keen on an arrangement where the FAI paid them in instalments upon request. Uefa confirmed that all performance-related payments were paid out by mid-January 2017.

    The Irish Independent understands that a representative from the League of Ireland champions contacted Mr Delaney on March 29, 2017, to say they needed €300,000 to pay for the upgrade of their artificial pitch and other bills.

    Mr Delaney replied saying the FAI would pay Dundalk €300,000 on April 12 if that was acceptable.

    Dundalk responded on March 30 to assert that they required a quicker payment.

    That was followed up by an email from Mr Breen, who advised that - on foot of the correspondence with Mr Delaney - the association was processing a €25,000 same-day transfer to the Louth club.

    Dundalk's next payment was another €25,000, which came through on April 13.

    They then received €100,000 on April 21, four days before Mr Delaney wrote a €100,000 cheque to his employer.

    After sending another request to Mr Breen on April 26, Dundalk's then owners were correctly told they would get the remaining €150,000 via a transfer on April 28.

    Mr Delaney this week told an Oireachtas hearing he was surprised by the extent of the cash-flow problems, when advised at an internal finance meeting on April 25 that the FAI would exceed a €1.5m overdraft limit if all cheques and bank transfers issued were presented for payment.

    seems to all match up problem is he didn't tell the rest of the board or Sport Ireland. Is all this above a "material deterioration in its financial position"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Nesta99


    Mahony0509 wrote: »
    Do you genuinely believe that its okay that an employee of the FAI used the company credit card to purchase €40k worth of ‘luxury goods’ in a six month period? Are you insane?

    Underage level? The LOI underage structure is a joke. An U13 league? Players get to U19 and fall off the radar because the ‘pathway’ is so far away from actual LOI football that none of them are able. Get a grip, open your eyes.

    Can you elaborate on your thinking on this? The new underage system is based on international best practice, systems that top footballing countries use. Yes u13 is a long way from senior ball and there will always be some attrition throughout the pathway. If you are saying that the gap between u19 and the senior game is too big for many, well sadly thats just they way it goes, for all the dedication and training some player just are not good enough. Some are that good that they are getting senior football before u19. How many players that have spent their lives at say the Manchester United academy and never get within an asses roar of the 1st senior team, many will carve out a career but just not at the highest of levels.

    The player pathway/elite player programme have been put together by Mr Dokter, the board/former CEO simply signed off on his recommendations so credit can not in entirety go to JD as some suggest, the role of High Performance director (or equivalent) was introduced prior to JDs CEO role.

    If I had made cash withdrawals on a company tab i'd have been in before my manager quick smart. Others did and the system became that of spending your own money, submitting expense reciepts and getting reimbursed. That cut a lot of the messing out. If there was an exceptional circumstance eg hosting a delegation then there was a credit card issued for that single event and then returned the next day. Nobody had a company credit card indefinitely - and that was as much to protect the employees as the company.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    That was a very clear and logical explanation of the 100k if you ask me.

    Probabaly better to rabble rabble corruption bad bad jd bad tho.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,195 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    sugarman wrote: »
    Credit card fiasco aside, I think this Independent article is the closest explanation of the €100k loan to date and it appears there are serious cash flow issues within the FAI. As in the €100k was actually needed on top of their €1.5m overdrafts to keep the FAI afloat.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/second-club-had-problems-securing-fai-prize-cash-and-grants-38012760.html

    This article is interesting too

    http://https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/new-concerns-raised-around-fai-in-protected-disclosure-including-questions-about-john-giles-foundation-38012763.html

    I said on another thread a few months ago that the FAI just don't the have the revenue streams as the other sports in Ireland and thus a the poor relation

    Rugby has a affluent fans base which also means an affluent sponsorship base
    The reason that tickets to 6N games in Dublin are so more expensive than soccer games is because the market can hold it
    They also have a network of fee paying schools that act as their development academies
    This makes a huge difference when the school absorb the cost of developing young talent

    The GAA does not have an international dimension so there is no pressure to compete on the international stage
    And it has a very very deep support base, so revenue comes every day of the week with people attending club games at every level

    Soccer on the other hand while very popular with the general public does not have many revenue streams

    Spending by soccer fans in Ireland goes towards TV subscriptions, trips to the UK, foreign club merchandise etc

    Spending by GAA fans on the other hand goes towards local club/county, trips to other clubs and counties and club/county merchandise etc

    Sure they get money for competing in international competitions, sponsorship etc but I'm not surprised that they are the poorer of the three.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭cardwizzard


    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/statement-issued-by-bernard-o-byrne-chief-executive-of-the-football-association-of-ireland-march-4th-2001-1.287400?mode=amp


    The treasurer at the time. Mr Delaney. Who Put a system in place to ban all private usage of any FAI credit cards...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    That was a very clear and logical explanation of the 100k if you ask me.

    Probabaly better to rabble rabble corruption bad bad jd bad tho.


    The big problem I have with the explanation is:


    1. Did the club or clubs in question allow the FAI use their monies to fund day to day business???


    2. Didnt the CFO say infront of the camera last week that UEFA money would go into a UEFA holding account?? If that was the case the money should have been available and there should never have been an issue with clubs getting at it.


    On another note....with a few million in the FAI accounts.....how would that effect their accounts and did they actually make a profit or have they been using LOI Euro prize money to balance the books and keep up the profit making front.


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,914 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The big problem I have with the explanation is:


    1. Did the club or clubs in question allow the FAI use their monies to fund day to day business???


    2. Didnt the CFO say infront of the camera last week that UEFA money would go into a UEFA holding account?? If that was the case the money should have been available and there should never have been an issue with clubs getting at it.


    On another note....with a few million in the FAI accounts.....how would that effect their accounts and did they actually make a profit or have they been using LOI Euro prize money to balance the books and keep up the profit making front.

    Again more reasons for a forensic audit.

    The board come across as incompetent in the least and gangsters at worst.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I said on another thread a few months ago that the FAI just don't the have the revenue streams as the other sports in Ireland and thus a the poor relation...

    Soccer could easily have outsripped GAA and rugby in this country if it hadn't been for the FAI and their mismanagement.

    You gloss over the fact that neither of them had any history of looking for sponsorship. Look at the GAA crowds and sponsorship in the early 90s, GAA figures in the past have said that post Italia 90 they were certain that soccer would steamroll them. Instead, they had came up with the very bold (and what many thought was an insane) plan to rebuild Croke Park and set about bringing in corporate sponsors. No background or history of doing it. But because they were simply competent they soon surpassed the FAI.

    I agree that rugby had the obvious D4/business connections advantage, but again they had to start from a long way behind soccer. But overtaking the FAI has been pretty easily done.

    In fairness, the failure of the FAI to capitalise on the success of the 90s can't be laid at John Delaney's door. More so his father. What a tradition of incompetence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    When Delaney goes . a couple of things will be interesting.

    His statement if any
    And will they fill the new made up position.

    Even his leaving has created some mess on top of other fundamental flaws in organisation.

    Even if I would believe most expenses could be justified.
    I'm.suprised he would get caught that way.

    It seems the most obvious mistake out there considering charity expenses saga and credit issues in FAI before.

    A full clean out is needed . But who can clean out basically a volunteer based association like that ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭shanec1928




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