John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

kippy · 11-04-2019 02:59PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I dont think anybody is disputing the loan was very unusual

We dont, and may never know, the reason for it.

As regards the LOI , personally i dont think its worth much imvestment.

If the FAI gave them more money, most of it would probabaly go on paying players more. Id have zero interest in seeing the LOI players on more money.

I know others disagree, thats their perogative. Seems the FAI agrees with me moreso. Although they have helped develop facilities of numerous clubs.

Im much more aligned to the FAI vision of improving resources, coaching and facilities at underage level.

How do you think the FAI and JD performed yesterday?

Also, you'd swear that the FAI went above and beyond their remit by helping clubs develop facilities - this is their one of their roles surely. As is the promotion of soccer in general.

Yesterday was an absolute embarrassment for the country in general and soccer in this country specificlly.

kippy · 11-04-2019 03:01PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Necro wrote: »

My point is I don't really understand your position on the clear and obvious issues that have been mentioned much more clearly and succinctly by posters other than me.

You claim the FAI is underfunded - ok, fair enough. I'd counter that with all three major organisations in field sports being in the same boat.

SI chairman says they make good use of the funding - that is to be expected.

It still doesn't clear up the major issues, primarily:

Why won't they answer questions on the 100k, and indeed take extraordinary measures to keep the public and committees in charge of asking these questions in the dark?

The non promotion of the LOI, including the overcharging/underpayment and indeed withholding of prize funds.

5 board members being in situ for 13 years - breaching basic corporate governance guidelines on turnover of board members.

The honorary treasure not knowing that the FAI have more than one bank account - or if he did, why lie about it directly to the oireachtas committee yesterday.

The list goes on and on.[/QUOTE

Yes those points are all valid. But Niall Quinn’s clearly wasn’t. That’s really all I’m saying right now.

My focus as I’ve been reasonably clear about is how do we make Irish football better. I’ve made suggestions how to do this on this thread and others.

The FAI need to do better.
The government need to do better
The Irish public need to do better.

If pristine financial governance gets us better results on the pitch I want the best financial governance in the world

If it doesn’t then I still want it but I wouldn’t be as fixated on it.

Talk about an absolute cop out.

The current FAI and it's board are the key stakeholders here.
It is their job to get the governement and the public to "do better". They clearly cannot do this job as things stand so changes need to happen. If only to improve the reputation of an extremely damaged brand at this stage.
It's very hard for the public and the state to "do better" when there's a board and senior management team in place who are as well paid and inept as is currently the case.

You don't make Irish Football better by maintaining the status quo.

dundalkfc10 · 11-04-2019 03:04PM

When they were asked Who signed off on the statement from FAI and they said they didnt know

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/video-archive/committees/

The exchange starts at 3.34:00 and the exact second Conway whispers to delaney is 3.35.18. Delaneys solicitor whispered to him to get conway to get a copy of the statement, and conway totally ignores him.
Delaney whispers something inaudable back to conway after conway said "You signed off on that didn't you"

dundalkfc10 · 11-04-2019 03:05PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I dont think anybody is disputing the loan was very unusual

We dont, and may never know, the reason for it.

As regards the LOI , personally i dont think its worth much imvestment.

If the FAI gave them more money, most of it would probabaly go on paying players more. Id have zero interest in seeing the LOI players on more money.

I know others disagree, thats their perogative. Seems the FAI agrees with me moreso. Although they have helped develop facilities of numerous clubs.

Im much more aligned to the FAI vision of improving resources, coaching and facilities at underage level.

Does not matter what you think about it. They are the Organisation over Football in this country, its their job to invest and make it as good as it can be.

Necro · 11-04-2019 03:09PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Necro wrote: »

My point is I don't really understand your position on the clear and obvious issues that have been mentioned much more clearly and succinctly by posters other than me.

You claim the FAI is underfunded - ok, fair enough. I'd counter that with all three major organisations in field sports being in the same boat.

SI chairman says they make good use of the funding - that is to be expected.

It still doesn't clear up the major issues, primarily:

Why won't they answer questions on the 100k, and indeed take extraordinary measures to keep the public and committees in charge of asking these questions in the dark?

The non promotion of the LOI, including the overcharging/underpayment and indeed withholding of prize funds.

5 board members being in situ for 13 years - breaching basic corporate governance guidelines on turnover of board members.

The honorary treasure not knowing that the FAI have more than one bank account - or if he did, why lie about it directly to the oireachtas committee yesterday.

The list goes on and on.

Yes those points are all valid. But Niall Quinn’s clearly wasn’t. That’s really all I’m saying right now.

My focus as I’ve been reasonably clear about is how do we make Irish football better. I’ve made suggestions how to do this on this thread and others.

The FAI need to do better.
The government need to do better
The Irish public need to do better.

If pristine financial governance gets us better results on the pitch I want the best financial governance in the world

If it doesn’t then I still want it but I wouldn’t be as fixated on it.

And we come back to the central issue though.

The FAI, with all of those issues above, have shown themselves to be not fit for purpose.

They cannot be trusted with the future of Irish football, and that is why there is so much frustration about their behaviour.

Through good governance the sport can grow, and it is clear to most that they are not fit to do that.

Thus they must go, and at the very least give someone else a chance to make some changes.

Dots1982 · 11-04-2019 03:16PM

Necro wrote: »

And we come back to the central issue though.

The FAI, with all of those issues above, have shown themselves to be not fit for purpose.

They cannot be trusted with the future of Irish football, and that is why there is so much frustration about their behaviour.

Through good governance the sport can grow, and it is clear to most that they are not fit to do that.

Thus they must go, and at the very least give someone else a chance to make some changes.

Quite possibly. I just don’t support a boycott because it could do a lot of harm to decent FAI staff who took a wage cut in 2012 as well as endanger projects the FAI fund; Astro pitches etc. The FAI are an association almost always on the verge of poverty. A boycott will send them down the ****tube

I support the foundation of a supporters investment trust that will charge membership, be completely non affiliated to the FAI. Have a board of trustee
members you can trust as they are people like Niall Quinn or Brian Kerr (just as example) and they will use membership fees to invest in Irish footballing infrastructure

Thereby weakening the FAI while strengthening Irish football.

dundalkfc10 · 11-04-2019 03:19PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Quite possibly. I just don’t support a boycott because it could do a lot of harm to decent FAI staff who took a wage cut in 2012 as well as endanger projects the FAI fund; Astro pitches etc. The FAI are an association almost always on the verge of poverty. A boycott will send them down the ****tube

I support the foundation of a supporters investment trust that will charge membership, be completely non affiliated to the FAI. Have a board of trustee
members you can trust as they are people like Niall Quinn or Brian Kerr (just as example) and they will use membership fees to invest in Irish footballing infrastructure

Thereby weakening the FAI while strengthening Irish football.

Keep that clown away too

Dots1982 · 11-04-2019 03:21PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Keep that clown away too

It’s just an example of someone every knows who has sports management experience

Arghus · 11-04-2019 03:21PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Quite possibly. I just don’t support a boycott because it could do a lot of harm to decent FAI staff who took a wage cut in 2012 as well as endanger projects the FAI fund; Astro pitches etc. The FAI are an association almost always on the verge of poverty. A boycott will send them down the ****tube

I support the foundation of a supporters investment trust that will charge membership, be completely non affiliated to the FAI. Have a board of trustee
members you can trust as they are people like Niall Quinn or Brian Kerr (just as example) and they will use membership fees to invest in Irish footballing infrastructure

Thereby weakening the FAI while strengthening Irish football.

I think of one area where they could start to make some savings!

Dots1982 · 11-04-2019 03:24PM

Arghus wrote: »

I think of one area where they could start to make some savings!

We shall see what salary cut the next ceo takes.

Necro · 11-04-2019 03:25PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Quite possibly. I just don’t support a boycott because it could do a lot of harm to decent FAI staff who took a wage cut in 2012 as well as endanger projects the FAI fund; Astro pitches etc. The FAI are an association almost always on the verge of poverty. A boycott will send them down the ****tube

I support the foundation of a supporters investment trust that will charge membership, be completely non affiliated to the FAI. Have a board of trustee
members you can trust as they are people like Niall Quinn or Brian Kerr (just as example) and they will use membership fees to invest in Irish footballing infrastructure

Thereby weakening the FAI while strengthening Irish football.

Can that happen though? I mean, setting up the trust is probably not an issue.

But what good would it do - the FAI have complete and full control over funding for Irish soccer.

To weaken that at all you'd nearly have to give this trust group either: positions with the FAI

OR

provide them with funding.

It's all well and good and I think there is some merit in setting up such a group but I'm not sure what change they can make if any - especially whilst the current board continue their iron fisted grip on the sport here.

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 04:15PM

bohsman wrote: »

Nobody is talking about throwing money at LOI clubs other than Chancer and Dunphy. Not handicapping LOI teams would be a major start.

Well, yes they are.

Quinn, Kerr and Mike Farnan want to build academies all around Ireland and have approached the governement with a proposal.

Their aim involes......

"Putting a blueprint in place that clubs can follow in order to develop players who can stay at home until they are that little bit older, so they can complete their education and , we believe, still stand a better chance of becoming Premier League players, is essential. “Whether the cost of that is €2 million or €1 million or €500,000 (per club) depends on the structure and what exactly you settle on but you certainly do have to spend money on a programme that helps to create a better standard of football and footballer."

2m per club with the intention of still feeding them to the premier league couldnt seem like more of a waste to me.

Necro · 11-04-2019 04:29PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I dont think anybody is disputing the loan was very unusual

We dont, and may never know, the reason for it.

As regards the LOI , personally i dont think its worth much imvestment.

If the FAI gave them more money, most of it would probabaly go on paying players more. Id have zero interest in seeing the LOI players on more money.

I know others disagree, thats their perogative. Seems the FAI agrees with me moreso. Although they have helped develop facilities of numerous clubs.

Im much more aligned to the FAI vision of improving resources, coaching and facilities at underage level.

You seem hellbent on pushing this point based on no evidence at all, when in fact, you yourself quote what this money would be used for, which is not for payment of players....

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Well, yes they are.

Quinn, Kerr and Mike Farnan want to build academies all around Ireland and have approached the governement with a proposal.

Their aim involes......

"Putting a blueprint in place that clubs can follow in order to develop players who can stay at home until they are that little bit older, so they can complete their education and , we believe, still stand a better chance of becoming Premier League players, is essential. “Whether the cost of that is €2 million or €1 million or €500,000 (per club) depends on the structure and what exactly you settle on but you certainly do have to spend money on a programme that helps to create a better standard of football and footballer."

2m per club with the intention of still feeding them to the premier league couldnt seem like more of a waste to me.

Seems pretty clear the money is for academies, not for payment of players???

Also is that an exact quote or did you stick in the (per club) part? Link to the article maybe?

artanevilla · 11-04-2019 04:30PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Well, yes they are.

Quinn, Kerr and Mike Farnan want to build academies all around Ireland and have approached the governement with a proposal.

Their aim involes......

"Putting a blueprint in place that clubs can follow in order to develop players who can stay at home until they are that little bit older, so they can complete their education and , we believe, still stand a better chance of becoming Premier League players, is essential. “Whether the cost of that is €2 million or €1 million or €500,000 (per club) depends on the structure and what exactly you settle on but you certainly do have to spend money on a programme that helps to create a better standard of football and footballer."

2m per club with the intention of still feeding them to the premier league couldnt seem like more of a waste to me.

This is the bit I have a problem with, why are we spending government money to provide players to a foreign league system?

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 04:37PM

@necro

Not sure you followed what i posted.

1 - People here are asking for investment IN LOI. I'm saying more money would presumably find its way to players at first team level, if priize money was increased e.g.. Which I have no interest in, FAI also seems to have little interest.

2 - The group looking to spend 40m (of tax money) on academies, is an example of how some people are saying to throw money at the League of Ireland in a different way. Again, I don't agree with this, as I think it's a money maker for those in charge. Is unnecessary at the moment and STILL their ultimate goal is to farm out players to England.

givyjoe · 11-04-2019 04:38PM

artanevilla wrote: »

This is the bit I have a problem with, why are we spending government money to provide players to a foreign league system?

Its not the main aim, but we will benefit in 2 significant ways.

-Transfer fees, and those over and above initial fee (i.e. sell on clauses) which will help to fund the league sustainably. You help the league by putting the infrastructure in, they then become self sustainable with the conveyor belt of sell-able talent.

-Help improve the national team having a players play at an even higher standard. I'm sure leagues in Holland/Scotland/Norway/Sweden etc would love to see all of their best players, stay and realise their potential at home, but they all know to get themselves to the next/higher level, they need to play in a higher quality league.

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 04:38PM

artanevilla wrote: »

This is the bit I have a problem with, why are we spending government money to provide players to a foreign league system?

Whats your opinion on Bale playing with Madrid?

Or say Cristiano not playing much in Portugal.

Or any major player who plays outside their country of upbringing?

kippy · 11-04-2019 04:45PM

artanevilla wrote: »

This is the bit I have a problem with, why are we spending government money to provide players to a foreign league system?

This is just silly.
Extend the logic a tiny bit.
Why are we subsidising an education system for various professions, that eventually end up working abroad.....

bohsman · 11-04-2019 04:50PM

kippy wrote: »

This is just silly.
Extend the logic a tiny bit.
Why are we subsidising an education system for various professions, that eventually end up working abroad.....

Yes it's fantastic if players end up in the PL with good careers but if the English FA came out and said that they were hoping their investments would lead to the best players going to la liga how would it be viewed?

dundalkfc10 · 11-04-2019 04:53PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

@necro

Not sure you followed what i posted.

1 - People here are asking for investment IN LOI. I'm saying more money would presumably find its way to players at first team level, if priize money was increased e.g.. Which I have no interest in, FAI also seems to have little interest.

2 - The group looking to spend 40m (of tax money) on academies, is an example of how some people are saying to throw money at the League of Ireland in a different way. Again, I don't agree with this, as I think it's a money maker for those in charge. Is unnecessary at the moment and STILL their ultimate goal is to farm out players to England.

Dundalks ultimate goal is to qualify for Group Stages on a regular basis (as said by owners on numerous occasions)

Nowhere do they ever mention selling players to England!

We gave Duffy a new contract just so he wouldnt be poached by an English club.

You havn't a notion what you are talking about.

Shamrock Roves ultimate goal last few years has been to develop a team capable of competing with Dundalk and Cork, they have stuck at it and are now in a title race for first time in 9 years nearly.

No clubs ultimate goal is to sell players to England, and if you can give a link to any club saying different, please feel free to send it

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 04:55PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Dundalks ultimate goal is to qualify for Group Stages on a regular basis (as said by owners on numerous occasions)

Nowhere do they ever mention selling players to England!

We gave Duffy a new contract just so he wouldnt be poached by an English club.

You havn't a notion what you are talking about.

Shamrock Roves ultimate goal last few years has been to develop a team capable of competing with Dundalk and Cork, they have stuck at it and are now in a title race for first time in 9 years nearly.

No clubs ultimate goal is to sell players to England, and if you can give a link to any club saying different, please feel free to send it

I dont think you read my post properly.

Point two referred to a business group headed by Niall Quinn and Brian Kerr. That point had nothing to do with Dundalk or Shamrock Rovers etc

givyjoe · 11-04-2019 04:56PM

bohsman wrote: »

Yes it's fantastic if players end up in the PL with good careers but if the English FA came out and said that they were hoping their investments would lead to the best players going to la liga how would it be viewed?

Bit of a silly comparison. Premier League and La Liga are in competition with each other for the best players. While many clubs (in various leagues) won't say it, their business model is based upon being a feeder club to bigger clubs/leagues. Clubs in Scandinavia, Portugal, Scotland (specifically Celtic).

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 05:00PM

givyjoe wrote: »

Bit of a silly comparison. Premier League and La Liga are in competition with each other for the best players. While many clubs (in various leagues) won't say it, their business model is based upon being a feeder club to bigger clubs/leagues. Clubs in Scandinavia, Portugal, Scotland (specifically Celtic).

Indeed most of these leagues main selling points is exactly THAT they are selling leagues.

Come show what you can do in a first team here and maybe one of the good leagues (pretty much England, Spain, Germany, France) will sign you

D14Rugby · 11-04-2019 05:01PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I dont think anybody is disputing the loan was very unusual

We dont, and may never know, the reason for it.

As regards the LOI , personally i dont think its worth much imvestment.

If the FAI gave them more money, most of it would probabaly go on paying players more. Id have zero interest in seeing the LOI players on more money.

I know others disagree, thats their perogative. Seems the FAI agrees with me moreso. Although they have helped develop facilities of numerous clubs.

Im much more aligned to the FAI vision of improving resources, coaching and facilities at underage level.

So your vision is just fund kids until they're 12 then leave it? Dont fund the people who are then in charge of their development from that point

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Well, yes they are.

Quinn, Kerr and Mike Farnan want to build academies all around Ireland and have approached the governement with a proposal.

Their aim involes......

"Putting a blueprint in place that clubs can follow in order to develop players who can stay at home until they are that little bit older, so they can complete their education and , we believe, still stand a better chance of becoming Premier League players, is essential. “Whether the cost of that is €2 million or €1 million or €500,000 (per club) depends on the structure and what exactly you settle on but you certainly do have to spend money on a programme that helps to create a better standard of football and footballer."

2m per club with the intention of still feeding them to the premier league couldnt seem like more of a waste to me.

That's not throwing money at clubs, that's exactly what you're saying you support, investing in youth development

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 05:03PM

D14Rugby wrote: »

So your vision is just fund kids until they're 12 then leave it? Dont fund the people who are then in charge of their development from that point

Literally no idea what you're talking about. Never said anything like that.

You want my vision for promoting youths soccer? Kinda seems like the wrong thread?

D14Rugby · 11-04-2019 05:05PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Literally no idea what you're talking about. Never said anything like that.

You want my vision for promoting youths soccer? Kinda seems like the wrong thread?

You said you wouldn't invest in LOI clubs. LOI clubs are, by the FAIs own design, the people in charge of players development from U13 level up. Try keep up

bohsman · 11-04-2019 05:07PM

givyjoe wrote: »

Bit of a silly comparison. Premier League and La Liga are in competition with each other for the best players. While many clubs (in various leagues) won't say it, their business model is based upon being a feeder club to bigger clubs/leagues. Clubs in Scandinavia, Portugal, Scotland (specifically Celtic).

Every single club has that business model outside of maybe the oil rich ones but if you look at the size of their academies they are still looking to make money. You can feed the best players on and still improve your own club/league.
The problem is when someone like Quinn comes in with this goal you have to wonder about his motives.

shanec1928 · 11-04-2019 05:08PM

https://twitter.com/BitORedTrust/status/1116340678919950336

Chancer3001 · 11-04-2019 05:09PM

D14Rugby wrote: »

You said you wouldn't invest in LOI clubs. LOI clubs are, by the FAIs own design, the people in charge of players development from U13 level up. Try keep up

ahhhh, No theyre not.

The vast majority of players play with their local teams at underage. They have no affiliation with league of Ireland teams.

D14Rugby · 11-04-2019 05:21PM

Chancer3001 wrote: »

ahhhh, No theyre not.

The vast majority of players play with their local teams at underage. They have no affiliation with league of Ireland teams.

So the national underage leagues were just set up for the craic?

John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

Comments