Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

AndrewJRenko · 06-04-2019 10:04PM

Roman Emperor wrote: »

Indeed. I would never tell another road user how they should behave.

It is the role of the Garda to police the roads and to deal with any breaches of the law.

To intervene very often leads to futile confrontation and to the type of ugly incident described by the poster.

It is indeed the role of the Gardai but they're clearly not doing it, given the endemic rates of mobile phone abuse while driving.

So in the absence of effective policing, it seems hugely irresponsible to me to just sit back and let dangerous drivers continue without giving them any feedback or direction. If people are doing something so incredibly stupid, they really need to hear it.

If you see a drunk wobbling towards his car in the pub car park with the keys in hand, are you going to say anything, or sit back, avoiding confrontation and let him kill himself or others?

magicbastarder · 06-04-2019 10:08PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

the chap today was definitely from ulster. he sounded like ian paisley snr in full flow, to the point where i didn't actually understand him.
however, i *think* he was shouting at me that he needed to look at his phone while driving in order to be able to figure out where he should be going.

this was a fun one. a chap veering in the lane, and i realised he had his head down staring at his phone. turns out (after i gestured at him he shouldn't be on the phone) that he needed it to figure out where he was going. looking at the road would have been a start.

queldy · 06-04-2019 10:29PM

I don't see why I shouldn't ask a driver with a phone to put down his phone while driving. If window is down, I ask. If I can't speak to him/her, I gesture. It's not easy to gesture it "politely", especially because 99% of them all are gonna answer aggressively whatever politeness you are using. It is still worth asking, gesturing and I do so every time.
If this is gonna sparkle a confrontation or not, I always do so. If there is a confrontation sparkling I try to be relaxed and explain to him/her I was simply asking not to use his/her phone because it is dangerous for him/her.
Sometimes people understand, sometimes they ignore, sometimes they are frightened, sometimes they attack me - whatever.
I will do so every time, and I find the "let it go" attitude partially responsible for what we have on the road these days.

Few weeks ago I was cycling around Stepaside, on a non-illuminated area - there was some queue and a van speed passing me to join the queue. I am vaccinated against these kinda things, I couldn't even bother - but I realised that, on top of this, he was with position lights only. As the queue was not advancing, I could reach them and indicating with my fingers on the lights, smiling kindly, suggesting the lights are off. As soon as they saw me window goes down and they start screaming (with driver bending over to the window raging like I was an assassin) "you fu** prick son of * and so on and so on".
I said "sorry, just saying your lights are down" ... which led to "oh great thanks mate!"

Tell me there is no prejudice against cyclist...

Roman Emperor · 06-04-2019 11:12PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It is indeed the role of the Gardai but they're clearly not doing it, given the endemic rates of mobile phone abuse while driving.

So in the absence of effective policing, it seems hugely irresponsible to me to just sit back and let dangerous drivers continue without giving them any feedback or direction. If people are doing something so incredibly stupid, they really need to hear it.

Given that around 28,000 people per year incur penalty points for using mobile phones, it's not quite true to say the Garda don't enforce the law.

It is pointless to be getting wrapped around the axle over every little transgression, perceived or otherwise.

In my view the key to avoiding unpleasantness on the road is to practice the art of defensive cycling, and driving.

AndrewJRenko · 07-04-2019 12:23AM

Roman Emperor wrote: »

Given that around 28,000 people per year incur penalty points for using mobile phones, it's not quite true to say the Garda don't enforce the law.

It is pointless to be getting wrapped around the axle over every little transgression, perceived or otherwise.

In my view the key to avoiding unpleasantness on the road is to practice the art of defensive cycling, and driving.

Given that we are 2nd worst in Europe for checking social media at the wheel, it is fair to say that drivers have no fear of being caught. Drive along any queue of drivers stopped at lights and every 2nd or 3rd driver will have a phone in their hand.

I'd have thought that the unpleasantness arising from distracted driving is a far bigger issue that one adult speaking to another adult.

Roman Emperor · 07-04-2019 12:54AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Given that we are 2nd worst in Europe for checking social media at the wheel, it is fair to say that drivers have no fear of being caught. Drive along any queue of drivers stopped at lights and every 2nd or 3rd driver will have a phone in their hand.

I'd have thought that the unpleasantness arising from distracted driving is a far bigger issue that one adult speaking to another adult.

"Stopped" is the keyword here.

Life is too short to be starting a war with someone who is stationary in traffic, whatever they might be doing.

A vehicle that isn't moving can't do a great deal of damage to anyone.

AndrewJRenko · 07-04-2019 01:11AM

Roman Emperor wrote: »

"Stopped" is the keyword here.

Life is too short to be starting a war with someone who is stationary in traffic, whatever they might be doing.

A vehicle that isn't moving can't do a great deal of damage to anyone.

A stationary driver is supposed to be watching what's going on around them, not playing scrabble on their dash mounted phone like the taxi man I met outside Pearse St Garda Station on Friday

buffalo · 07-04-2019 11:25AM

Roman Emperor wrote: »

"Stopped" is the keyword here.

Life is too short to be starting a war with someone who is stationary in traffic, whatever they might be doing.

A vehicle that isn't moving can't do a great deal of damage to anyone.

A distracted driver can do a massive amount of damage to anyone.

Rechuchote · 07-04-2019 04:42PM

Roman Emperor wrote: »

Given that around 28,000 people per year incur penalty points for using mobile phones, it's not quite true to say the Garda don't enforce the law.

Someone here a few months ago mentioned a company that had its drivers' phones linked to the handbrake so they couldn't drive unless the car was stopped and braked.

Surely it would be worth the savings for insurance companies to produce a similar app and require its use if you were to be covered while driving?

homer911 · 08-04-2019 10:10AM

Rechuchote wrote: »

Someone here a few months ago mentioned a company that had its drivers' phones linked to the handbrake so they couldn't drive unless the car was stopped and braked.

??

CramCycle · 08-04-2019 10:28AM

homer911 wrote: »

??

I presume Rechucote meant they cannot make or take a call unless the vehicle is completely stopped. Interestingly, it also adds to safety in the yard as well, as people looking at phones have them cut off on them if there are vehicles moving nearby or someone has forgotten to put on a handbrake.

magicbastarder · 08-04-2019 10:29AM

i suspect she meant they couldn't use the phone unless the car was stopped and handbrake applied.

jamesjustjames · 08-04-2019 10:51AM

site_owner wrote: »

Usual spot for a dodgy pass. Holding the lane doesnt always stop them trying

https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1113851145859022853?s=19

Why "hold the lane"?

Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

Fighting Tao · 08-04-2019 10:55AM

jamesjustjames wrote: »

Why "hold the lane"?

Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

Self protection.

magicbastarder · 08-04-2019 10:56AM

hello and welcome to the cycling forum.
looking at the footage, the cyclist in question is (very rough guess) about 40% of the way out from the kerb. he's entitled to do so, and it's also good roadcraft to do so, it helps prevent stupid overtaking manouevres (a la the one shown in the video). also, the gutter is often full of debris, which is another reason not to hug the kerb.

AndrewJRenko · 08-04-2019 10:59AM

jamesjustjames wrote: »

Why "hold the lane"?

Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

Because there isn't enough room to pass a cyclist safely in a bus lane, regardless of how close to the gutter the cyclist stays.

Holding the lane deters most dangerous overtakes, though not all, sadly.

mbradso2003 · 08-04-2019 11:10AM

blackwhite wrote: »

Cycle lane both sides of the road blocked by parked cars at Clonskeagh mosque. Good 200m stretch of cars.

Looks like they’ve learned to copy some of the worse habits of mass-goers

Had this couple weeks ago myself shortly after attacks in NZ, wrongly assumed it was once off.

jjpep · 08-04-2019 11:23AM

jamesjustjames wrote: »

Why "hold the lane"?

Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

If a lane isn't wide for both some one on a bike and someone in a car, what many experienced cyclist's will do is move into the middle of the lane to make it obvious to anyone behind that if they want to overtake, they need to move into the other lane. Essentially you're trying to help someone behind you make a good decision in regards to keeping both of you safe and out of trouble.

jamesjustjames · 08-04-2019 11:33AM

jjpep wrote: »

If a lane isn't wide for both some one on a bike and someone in a car, what many experienced cyclist's will do is move into the middle of the lane to make it obvious to anyone behind that if they want to overtake, they need to move into the other lane. Essentially you're trying to help someone behind you make a good decision in regards to keeping both of you safe and out of trouble.

But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.

08-04-2019 11:38AM

jamesjustjames wrote: »

But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.

It's not this simple. I was cycling down Erne Street last week and there were cars parked intermittently on the left side of the road. A car behind me was beeping aggressively at me and it turned out he expected me to move left any time there were gaps between parked cars. Nobody would ever drive in such a fashion so why would you expect a person to cycle this way?

08-04-2019 11:39AM

site_owner wrote: »

This happened to us yesterday. Absolute muppet of a driver

https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1112456315417358336?s=19

You're famous!

https://road.cc/content/news/258883-video-dublin-motorist-needlessly-cuts-cyclist-carrying-two-kids-cargo-bike

Chips Lovell · 08-04-2019 11:40AM

Mod Note

jamesjustjames wrote: »

But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.

They ask cyclists to keep to the left of the road. Just as they ask motorists to keep to the left of the road. They also state:

Keep clear of the kerb – riding clear will make you more visible and help
reduce unsafe overtaking.

Now your question has been answered, I'll put my mod hat on and remind you of the mod-warning in the OP. Back on topic please.

magicbastarder · 08-04-2019 11:48AM

jjpep wrote: »

If a lane isn't wide for both some one on a bike and someone in a car, what many experienced cyclist's will do is move into the middle of the lane to make it obvious to anyone behind that if they want to overtake, they need to move into the other lane. Essentially you're trying to help someone behind you make a good decision in regards to keeping both of you safe and out of trouble.

yep - to coin a phrase, if you cycle hugging the kerb, motorists will pass you as if you're not there.
if you take the lane, they will (generally!) pass you as if you *are* thre.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 08-04-2019 11:53AM

Stopped at red here last Wednesday on the way out of town and the guy in his car at the front of the queue was reading his phone. He slowly broke the red light as he was looking at the phone. I'm not sure he even realised there was a traffic light there (traffic had backed up from Kimmage, so he was stopped for the traffic, not the red light).

If there was anything coming out from the right he would have gone straight into them.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3199158,-6.2874637,3a,75y,249.84h,71.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfzMSxzEQAJjFs9jYkR4XuA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

blackwhite · 08-04-2019 12:08PM

mbradso2003 wrote: »

Had this couple weeks ago myself shortly after attacks in NZ, wrongly assumed it was once off.

Pretty much any Friday afternoon I’ve passed it it’s like that - but I’m usually not coming home from work till well after 6 so I’m fortunate that it’s usually cleared by time I’m passing.
Any Friday I take a half day however.......

Seth Brundle · 08-04-2019 01:42PM

jamesjustjames wrote: »

But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.

Whilst the ROTR isn't the law, if people drove as suggested in the book, there would be a lot fewer deaths and serious injuries on our roads caused by people driving stupidly!

jive · 09-04-2019 10:27AM

Had some eejit in a 'PCB' minibus beep and point at the shared cycle lane on the road coming up to leeson bridge as I was ~1m outside of the cycle lane. You might think to yourself 'so what? use the cycle lane there, it's grand' and yes it is. I was overtaking 2 cyclists (who were in single file) as he beeped and pointed to the cycle lane, the mind boggles. Ya can't help but laugh sometimes

09-04-2019 10:43AM

Just after Newcomen Bridge on Amiens St there is a cycle lane that merges with a footpath containing a busstop, a mess of a junction. The cycle lane seems to end at the stop and begin again just after. Anyway this morning a passenger alighting from a bus gave out to me telling me I should be in the cycle lane. Tries pointing out that there is some form of a cycle lane there, only to be told well then I should be in it. Had I remained in it I would have collided with her. Not sure what else I could have done. Awful layout of a cycle lane and bus stop.

mr spuckler · 09-04-2019 10:46AM

downtheroad wrote: »

Just after Newcomen Bridge on Amiens St there is a cycle lane that merges with a footpath containing a busstop, a mess of a junction. The cycle lane seems to end at the stop and begin again just after. Anyway this morning a passenger alighting from a bus gave out to me telling me I should be in the cycle lane. Tries pointing out that there is some form of a cycle lane there, only to be told well then I should be in it. Had I remained in it I would have collided with her. Not sure what else I could have done. Awful layout of a cycle lane and bus stop.

that's one of those to file under "dangerous by design". I've never used it in all the time I've cycled that stretch.

seamus · 09-04-2019 10:52AM

downtheroad wrote: »

Just after Newcomen Bridge on Amiens St there is a cycle lane that merges with a footpath containing a busstop, a mess of a junction. The cycle lane seems to end at the stop and begin again just after. Anyway this morning a passenger alighting from a bus gave out to me telling me I should be in the cycle lane. Tries pointing out that there is some form of a cycle lane there, only to be told well then I should be in it. Had I remained in it I would have collided with her. Not sure what else I could have done. Awful layout of a cycle lane and bus stop.

Looking at it on Google Maps, it's a complete mess. I'd advise that you stay in the bus lane, don't bother following the cycle lane.

As a general rule I don't follow off-road cycle lanes unless I know them already and know they're safe.

Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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