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Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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    #7652
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,586 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Roman Emperor wrote: »
    A pretty ugly event alright...driver appears to be a nasty piece of work. But you must admit you sparked the incident when you "motioned to put the phone down". If we were to react to every such episode we'd just drive ourselves crazy.
    Wait, do you NOT tell drivers to put their phones down in these situations?


    That's a bit crazy, isn't it? Letting drivers continue to drive multi-tonne vehicles at speeds of 50-150 kmph while they're distracted?


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    #7653
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,586 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    tnegun wrote: »
    Prick this morning decided he'd use the bus lane to skip the queue then couldn't wait to pass me safely https://vimeo.com/328534645
    Great to know that he's saving the planet with his Prius, while taking risks to knock of cyclists one by one.


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    #7654
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,206 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    If someone is set off by a cyclist gesturing to put they phone down they shouldn't be driving. Suggesting the poster caused it is just ridiculous. Imagine if everyone got out of their car anytime a cyclist gave the wtf hand gesture we all do. Every car has Bluetooth these days and if they don't a Bluetooth kit isn't expensive.


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    #7655
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    If someone is set off by a cyclist gesturing to put they phone down they shouldn't be driving. Suggesting the poster caused it is just ridiculous. Imagine if everyone got out of their car anytime a cyclist gave the wtf hand gesture we all do. Every car has Bluetooth these days and if they don't a Bluetooth kit isn't expensive.

    Cannot use bluetooth to look at the latest Facebook musings.


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    #7656
    Roman Emperor
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Roman Emperor


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Wait, do you NOT tell drivers to put their phones down in these situations?


    That's a bit crazy, isn't it? Letting drivers continue to drive multi-tonne vehicles at speeds of 50-150 kmph while they're distracted?


    Indeed. I would never tell another road user how they should behave.



    It is the role of the Garda to police the roads and to deal with any breaches of the law.



    To intervene very often leads to futile confrontation and to the type of ugly incident described by the poster.


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    #7657
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,586 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Roman Emperor wrote: »
    Indeed. I would never tell another road user how they should behave.



    It is the role of the Garda to police the roads and to deal with any breaches of the law.



    To intervene very often leads to futile confrontation and to the type of ugly incident described by the poster.
    It is indeed the role of the Gardai but they're clearly not doing it, given the endemic rates of mobile phone abuse while driving.


    So in the absence of effective policing, it seems hugely irresponsible to me to just sit back and let dangerous drivers continue without giving them any feedback or direction. If people are doing something so incredibly stupid, they really need to hear it.


    If you see a drunk wobbling towards his car in the pub car park with the keys in hand, are you going to say anything, or sit back, avoiding confrontation and let him kill himself or others?


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    #7658
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the chap today was definitely from ulster. he sounded like ian paisley snr in full flow, to the point where i didn't actually understand him.
    however, i *think* he was shouting at me that he needed to look at his phone while driving in order to be able to figure out where he should be going.
    this was a fun one. a chap veering in the lane, and i realised he had his head down staring at his phone. turns out (after i gestured at him he shouldn't be on the phone) that he needed it to figure out where he was going. looking at the road would have been a start.


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    #7659
    queldy
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭queldy


    I don't see why I shouldn't ask a driver with a phone to put down his phone while driving. If window is down, I ask. If I can't speak to him/her, I gesture. It's not easy to gesture it "politely", especially because 99% of them all are gonna answer aggressively whatever politeness you are using. It is still worth asking, gesturing and I do so every time.
    If this is gonna sparkle a confrontation or not, I always do so. If there is a confrontation sparkling I try to be relaxed and explain to him/her I was simply asking not to use his/her phone because it is dangerous for him/her.
    Sometimes people understand, sometimes they ignore, sometimes they are frightened, sometimes they attack me - whatever.
    I will do so every time, and I find the "let it go" attitude partially responsible for what we have on the road these days.

    Few weeks ago I was cycling around Stepaside, on a non-illuminated area - there was some queue and a van speed passing me to join the queue. I am vaccinated against these kinda things, I couldn't even bother - but I realised that, on top of this, he was with position lights only. As the queue was not advancing, I could reach them and indicating with my fingers on the lights, smiling kindly, suggesting the lights are off. As soon as they saw me window goes down and they start screaming (with driver bending over to the window raging like I was an assassin) "you fu** prick son of * and so on and so on".
    I said "sorry, just saying your lights are down" ... which led to "oh great thanks mate!"

    Tell me there is no prejudice against cyclist...


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    #7660
    Roman Emperor
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Roman Emperor


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It is indeed the role of the Gardai but they're clearly not doing it, given the endemic rates of mobile phone abuse while driving.


    So in the absence of effective policing, it seems hugely irresponsible to me to just sit back and let dangerous drivers continue without giving them any feedback or direction. If people are doing something so incredibly stupid, they really need to hear it.


    Given that around 28,000 people per year incur penalty points for using mobile phones, it's not quite true to say the Garda don't enforce the law.


    It is pointless to be getting wrapped around the axle over every little transgression, perceived or otherwise.


    In my view the key to avoiding unpleasantness on the road is to practice the art of defensive cycling, and driving.


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    #7661
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,586 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Roman Emperor wrote: »
    Given that around 28,000 people per year incur penalty points for using mobile phones, it's not quite true to say the Garda don't enforce the law.


    It is pointless to be getting wrapped around the axle over every little transgression, perceived or otherwise.


    In my view the key to avoiding unpleasantness on the road is to practice the art of defensive cycling, and driving.
    Given that we are 2nd worst in Europe for checking social media at the wheel, it is fair to say that drivers have no fear of being caught. Drive along any queue of drivers stopped at lights and every 2nd or 3rd driver will have a phone in their hand.


    I'd have thought that the unpleasantness arising from distracted driving is a far bigger issue that one adult speaking to another adult.


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    #7662
    Roman Emperor
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Roman Emperor


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Given that we are 2nd worst in Europe for checking social media at the wheel, it is fair to say that drivers have no fear of being caught. Drive along any queue of drivers stopped at lights and every 2nd or 3rd driver will have a phone in their hand.


    I'd have thought that the unpleasantness arising from distracted driving is a far bigger issue that one adult speaking to another adult.


    "Stopped" is the keyword here.


    Life is too short to be starting a war with someone who is stationary in traffic, whatever they might be doing.


    A vehicle that isn't moving can't do a great deal of damage to anyone.


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    #7663
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,586 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Roman Emperor wrote: »
    "Stopped" is the keyword here.


    Life is too short to be starting a war with someone who is stationary in traffic, whatever they might be doing.


    A vehicle that isn't moving can't do a great deal of damage to anyone.

    A stationary driver is supposed to be watching what's going on around them, not playing scrabble on their dash mounted phone like the taxi man I met outside Pearse St Garda Station on Friday


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    #7664
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Roman Emperor wrote: »
    "Stopped" is the keyword here.


    Life is too short to be starting a war with someone who is stationary in traffic, whatever they might be doing.


    A vehicle that isn't moving can't do a great deal of damage to anyone.

    A distracted driver can do a massive amount of damage to anyone.


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    #7665
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Roman Emperor wrote: »
    Given that around 28,000 people per year incur penalty points for using mobile phones, it's not quite true to say the Garda don't enforce the law.

    Someone here a few months ago mentioned a company that had its drivers' phones linked to the handbrake so they couldn't drive unless the car was stopped and braked.

    Surely it would be worth the savings for insurance companies to produce a similar app and require its use if you were to be covered while driving?


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    #7666
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Someone here a few months ago mentioned a company that had its drivers' phones linked to the handbrake so they couldn't drive unless the car was stopped and braked.
    ??


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    #7667
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,539 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    homer911 wrote: »
    ??

    I presume Rechucote meant they cannot make or take a call unless the vehicle is completely stopped. Interestingly, it also adds to safety in the yard as well, as people looking at phones have them cut off on them if there are vehicles moving nearby or someone has forgotten to put on a handbrake.


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    #7668
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect she meant they couldn't use the phone unless the car was stopped and handbrake applied.


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    #7669
    jamesjustjames
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭jamesjustjames


    site_owner wrote: »
    Usual spot for a dodgy pass. Holding the lane doesnt always stop them trying

    https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1113851145859022853?s=19

    Why "hold the lane"?

    Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?


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    #7670
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    jamesjustjames wrote: »
    Why "hold the lane"?

    Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

    Self protection.


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    #7671
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    hello and welcome to the cycling forum.
    looking at the footage, the cyclist in question is (very rough guess) about 40% of the way out from the kerb. he's entitled to do so, and it's also good roadcraft to do so, it helps prevent stupid overtaking manouevres (a la the one shown in the video). also, the gutter is often full of debris, which is another reason not to hug the kerb.


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    #7672
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,586 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    jamesjustjames wrote: »
    Why "hold the lane"?

    Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

    Because there isn't enough room to pass a cyclist safely in a bus lane, regardless of how close to the gutter the cyclist stays.

    Holding the lane deters most dangerous overtakes, though not all, sadly.


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    #7673
    mbradso2003
    Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭mbradso2003


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Cycle lane both sides of the road blocked by parked cars at Clonskeagh mosque. Good 200m stretch of cars.

    Looks like they’ve learned to copy some of the worse habits of mass-goers

    Had this couple weeks ago myself shortly after attacks in NZ, wrongly assumed it was once off.


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    #7674
    jjpep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 658 ✭✭✭jjpep


    jamesjustjames wrote: »
    Why "hold the lane"?

    Why not, as most cyclists using that route do, cycle closer to the footpath?

    If a lane isn't wide for both some one on a bike and someone in a car, what many experienced cyclist's will do is move into the middle of the lane to make it obvious to anyone behind that if they want to overtake, they need to move into the other lane. Essentially you're trying to help someone behind you make a good decision in regards to keeping both of you safe and out of trouble.


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    #7675
    jamesjustjames
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭jamesjustjames


    jjpep wrote: »
    If a lane isn't wide for both some one on a bike and someone in a car, what many experienced cyclist's will do is move into the middle of the lane to make it obvious to anyone behind that if they want to overtake, they need to move into the other lane. Essentially you're trying to help someone behind you make a good decision in regards to keeping both of you safe and out of trouble.

    But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.


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    #7676
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    jamesjustjames wrote: »
    But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.

    It's not this simple. I was cycling down Erne Street last week and there were cars parked intermittently on the left side of the road. A car behind me was beeping aggressively at me and it turned out he expected me to move left any time there were gaps between parked cars. Nobody would ever drive in such a fashion so why would you expect a person to cycle this way?


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    #7677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    site_owner wrote: »
    This happened to us yesterday. Absolute muppet of a driver

    https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1112456315417358336?s=19

    You're famous!

    https://road.cc/content/news/258883-video-dublin-motorist-needlessly-cuts-cyclist-carrying-two-kids-cargo-bike


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    #7678
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mod Note
    jamesjustjames wrote: »
    But the rules of the road require cyclists to keep left except where taking up position to turn or approaching a roundabout.

    They ask cyclists to keep to the left of the road. Just as they ask motorists to keep to the left of the road. They also state:
    Keep clear of the kerb – riding clear will make you more visible and help
    reduce unsafe overtaking.

    Now your question has been answered, I'll put my mod hat on and remind you of the mod-warning in the OP. Back on topic please.


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    #7679
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    jjpep wrote: »
    If a lane isn't wide for both some one on a bike and someone in a car, what many experienced cyclist's will do is move into the middle of the lane to make it obvious to anyone behind that if they want to overtake, they need to move into the other lane. Essentially you're trying to help someone behind you make a good decision in regards to keeping both of you safe and out of trouble.
    yep - to coin a phrase, if you cycle hugging the kerb, motorists will pass you as if you're not there.
    if you take the lane, they will (generally!) pass you as if you *are* thre.


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    #7680
    Ray Bloody Purchase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Ray Bloody Purchase


    Stopped at red here last Wednesday on the way out of town and the guy in his car at the front of the queue was reading his phone. He slowly broke the red light as he was looking at the phone. I'm not sure he even realised there was a traffic light there (traffic had backed up from Kimmage, so he was stopped for the traffic, not the red light).

    If there was anything coming out from the right he would have gone straight into them.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3199158,-6.2874637,3a,75y,249.84h,71.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfzMSxzEQAJjFs9jYkR4XuA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


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    #7681
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    mbradso2003 wrote: »
    Had this couple weeks ago myself shortly after attacks in NZ, wrongly assumed it was once off.

    Pretty much any Friday afternoon I’ve passed it it’s like that - but I’m usually not coming home from work till well after 6 so I’m fortunate that it’s usually cleared by time I’m passing.
    Any Friday I take a half day however.......


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