PGA Tour Thread

Remind me · 02-04-2019 02:10PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I don't *know* no one picked up, I said
"I'd say few to none did it when the result of the hole hadn't been decided"

Yes...so where is the gamesmanship here?

Indeed. Again, so what was the alternative and where was the gamesmanship?

You started this paragraph by saying "of course playing to the rules can be gamesmanship" and then neglected to actually point any gamesmanship out...

Just look back 1 page where you said 'no one picked up'. Can't be clearer.

Using your own quote Kuchar's 'ploy' was to get the referee involved. IMO he should have dealt with it himself and moved onto the next hole. You have a different opinion.

02-04-2019 02:19PM

GreeBo wrote: »

So when is it not gamesmanship, since to do the contrary would be cheating?

Gamesmanship isn't cheating, that's the whole point of the concept. Doing things that whilst are legal, are ethically blurry, to win.

GreeBo · 02-04-2019 02:27PM

Remind me wrote: »

Just look back 1 page where you said 'no one picked up'. Can't be clearer.

Using your own quote Kuchar's 'ploy' was to get the referee involved. IMO he should have dealt with it himself and moved onto the next hole. You have a different opinion.

I gave specific scenario where no one picked up without it being conceded. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Lol, letting the referee do his job is a ploy now?:rolleyes:

The only way open to Kuchar to deal with it was to take the win, the alternative was to agree to waive the rules which would penalise them both since they had a prescribed match referee.

Mysterypunter · 02-04-2019 02:32PM

Sergio is a little child anyway, anyone who takes him seriously shouldn't bother. An out and out bottler who fell over the masters a couple of years ago, but failed many more times than he succeeded due to a suspect temperament.

GreeBo · 02-04-2019 02:36PM

AdamD wrote: »

Gamesmanship isn't cheating, that's the whole point of the concept. Doing things that whilst are legal, are ethically blurry, to win.

I specifically didn't say it was cheating, in fact I pretty much said the opposite.
The question I asked was, if the stated position is that playing by the rules can be gamesmanship, when is it not gamesmanship?

Deeper Blue · 02-04-2019 04:10PM

abff wrote: »

I'm sure there are lots of other examples of golfers behaving in a sporting manner, but these two are the first that spring to mind. I think both of those gentlemen would probably have conceded the next hole to Garcia in that situation.

The fact that Kuchar failed to do so is very disappointing, particularly as he could have used some good press after his recent caddy related problems.

.

Diego Tristan · 02-04-2019 04:43PM

NDWC wrote: »

But Garcia only missed out on a half, therefore conceding the next hole would've meant Kuchar would be down a half himself

Garcia went 2 down instead of staying at 1 down at the 7th because of the missed putt.

If he won the 8th hole it would have been back to 1 down again, where he felt it should have been after 7.

Diego Tristan · 02-04-2019 04:45PM

Find it hard to pick a favourite in this dispute.

Always disliked Kuchar.

That stupid gormless smile, those bland beyond words interviews where he'd talk about going out and having fun or thanking the good lord for everything, those deeply irritating chants of 'Kuuuuch' (out of his control, admittedly) following him around, the vast sums of money he'd make without ever really winning much of note. You'd think he'd have made enough in his career not to short change a caddy.

As for Garcia, the trend of trying to remind everyone at every opportunity that he won the Masters says a lot about him.Wearing green all the time and calling his child Azalea. Ok Sergio, we get it, you won a green jacket.

Wouldn't know who to root for if they came to blows.

Deeper Blue · 02-04-2019 05:15PM

Diego Tristan wrote: »

Garcia went 2 down instead of staying at 1 down at the 7th because of the missed putt.

If he won the 8th hole it would have been back to 1 down again, where he felt it should have been after 7.

You're right I had that completely wrong in my head

GreeBo · 02-04-2019 05:48PM

Diego Tristan wrote: »

Garcia went 2 down instead of staying at 1 down at the 7th because of the missed putt.

If he won the 8th hole it would have been back to 1 down again, where he felt it should have been after 7.

That takes away from Kuchar though, he has now a match over 17 holes rather than 18, which is unfair imo.

abff · 03-04-2019 10:40AM

Good discussion here.

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/wgc-match-play-2019-frank-nobilo-talks-garcia-ruling

GreeBo · 03-04-2019 11:55AM

abff wrote: »

Good discussion here.

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/wgc-match-play-2019-frank-nobilo-talks-garcia-ruling

"no good move" about sums it up for me.
After he missed the short putt there is no equitable way to resolve the situation.

RoadRunner · 03-04-2019 12:12PM

Sergio, fresh after disqualification for slamming his putter into the greens in the middle east, lost the head again after missing a putt. He attempted to quickly knock the ball in with the back of his putter, missing the putt and losing the hole to Kuch. Uproar at Kuchar now for some reason?

First Up · 03-04-2019 12:47PM

GreeBo wrote:

"no good move" about sums it up for me. After he missed the short putt there is no equitable way to resolve the situation.

I don't like Garcia for a variety of reasons but I have some sympathy for him over this. If it was strokeplay, he wouldn't have a case but in matchplay, it was as obvious a gimmie as you could find and had he waited 2 seconds it would have been given. Its the spirit of matchplay, not the letter of the law.

Kuchar didn't need to concede a hole but he might have conceded a putt a few inches longer than usually given. I think that's all Garcia could (and did) expect in the spirit of matchplay.

Mantis Toboggan · 03-04-2019 01:18PM

So McDowell had only 20 putts for his round last Saturday, 14 putts for his first 14 holes. That's unbelievable.

I also had 20 putts on Saturday, wasn't bad for the front 9.

GreeBo · 03-04-2019 03:03PM

First Up wrote: »

I don't like Garcia for a variety of reasons but I have some sympathy for him over this. If it was strokeplay, he wouldn't have a case but in matchplay, it was as obvious a gimmie as you could find and had he waited 2 seconds it would have been given. Its the spirit of matchplay, not the letter of the law.

Kuchar didn't need to concede a hole but he might have conceded a putt a few inches longer than usually given. I think that's all Garcia could (and did) expect in the spirit of matchplay.

The spirit can't ignore the rules if there is a match referee.

Garcia was looking for a longish putt to be conceded, but i don't know if it was for a win.

For me this would be very different if there was no ref and kuchsr claimed the hole. Its poor form that players don't stay nearby for putting during matches and leads to this nonsense.

First Up · 03-04-2019 03:20PM

GreeBo wrote:

The spirit can't ignore the rules if there is a match referee.

I think Garcia acknowledged that he correctly lost that hole. Given the circumstances, Kuchar could have been generous and conceded a putt later in the round - as a gesture within the spirit. He chose not to.

eagle eye · 04-04-2019 12:12AM

Kuchar has always been a gentleman. People rightly gave out about the caddy not being paid but that's a whole different thing. On the golf course he has always been a nice guy.
Sergio was stupid and completely at fault on this occasion.

Mantis Toboggan · 04-04-2019 08:39AM

I think Kuchar is far from the gentleman he likes to portray himself as.

RoadRunner · 04-04-2019 01:57PM

eagle eye wrote: »

People rightly gave out about the caddy not being paid.

The time the caddy was paid the agreed apon amount and received a bonus too, but wanted even more of a bonus :pac:
How stories get twisted! You gotta feel for poor Kutcher when this he’s somehow blamed for Sergio’s idiocy now and not considered a victim when a temp caddy publicly badmouths him for not giving him x10 times the prior agreed apon fee

valoren · 04-04-2019 02:03PM

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I think Kuchar is far from the gentleman he likes to portray himself as.

Zach Johnson, one of Kuchar’s closest friends and a Sea Island neighbor, says “There is no one on the PGA Tour whose image is more different than who he really is than Matt Kuchar.”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/matt-kuchar-mr-nice-guy-or-el-cheapo

detones · 05-04-2019 12:35PM

Having watched the Video, Sergio deserves to have lost the hole.

I also feel Kuchar seems to be a bit of a two faced individual. I would have had more respect for him had he stood his ground and just said, I didn't concede the putt, your bad, as opposed to the lame "i'm not sure how to make this right" and "I don't want to win like this" nonsense.

I'd say if it was any other 2 golfers this would be a non story, but these 2 have been in the news for the wrong reasons this year and it makes it all the more interesting.

The video they released together trying to explain the whole affair is awful, very cringe worthy stuff. Another mistake by these two numptys.

benny79 · 05-04-2019 03:11PM

RoadRunner wrote: »

The time the caddy was paid the agreed apon amount and received a bonus too, but wanted even more of a bonus :pac:
How stories get twisted! You gotta feel for poor Kutcher when this he’s somehow blamed for Sergio’s idiocy now and not considered a victim when a temp caddy publicly badmouths him for not giving him x10 times the prior agreed apon fee

Strongly disagee.. he won 1.2 million it could of been the Caddy that helped him win! Local lad giving him the lines etc he wasnt looking for 10% just $50,000 which is nothing to him but a world to a Caddy. Every Caddy I said it to in St Andrews said it was a disgrace & he's know for been a miserable Cnut!

PokeHerKing · 05-04-2019 07:13PM

RoadRunner wrote:

The time the caddy was paid the agreed apon amount and received a bonus too, but wanted even more of a bonus How stories get twisted! You gotta feel for poor Kutcher when this heâ€™s somehow blamed for Sergioâ€™s idiocy now and not considered a victim when a temp caddy publicly badmouths him for not giving him x10 times the prior agreed apon fee

CONTEXT my man!! COOOOONNNTEEEEEXT!!

To give the guy less than half a percent of the winnings!? Like that's not cheap, cheap is not tipping your taxi driver.

I'm not sure what you'd call what kucher did. I'd put it on par with robbing the change out of a homeless mans cup while he slept.

Remind me · 05-04-2019 08:00PM

Good bounce back after an awful start by Harrington today

eagle eye · 05-04-2019 11:28PM

Wow, Si Woo Kim takes a two shot lead to 16 with a sand save on the previous hole and then gets a hole in one on 16. Nice four shot lead now and the short 17th and par five 18th to go.

eagle eye · 05-04-2019 11:35PM

The other two players in the threesome both birdied the hole, must be a record for a threesome on a par 3 to shoot 4 under par.

Deeper Blue · 06-04-2019 01:19AM

Kim must be one of the most up and down players on tour. He seems to either contend or miss the cut by multiple shots. He got hammered in every match last week, 7&5 in one and 6&4 in the other two! Even when he won the Players I don't think his form was great before or after.

06-04-2019 02:09AM

NDWC wrote: »

Kim must be one of the most up and down players on tour. He seems to either contend or miss the cut by multiple shots. He got hammered in every match last week, 7&5 in one and 6&4 in the other two! Even when he won the Players I don't think his form was great before or after.

Pretty much Si woo kin to a tee

he can and will do anything at any stage.

Seems like a player who will beat himself if it happenns.

4 lead here is massive even if he has a bad day

Edit: just had a quick look and his short game has been massive recently and his putter does get hot

Dr. Bre · 07-04-2019 09:57PM

McDowell having another good week

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