Google Stadia

Mr E · 19-03-2019 6:40pm #1

Officially announced today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_dggN2rN3A

OldMrBrennan83 · 19-03-2019 6:46pm

Sounds ambitious but Google's track record is too bad at this stage to have any faith that it'll ever happen.

There's some potential there if they can make it work though.

_

CatInABox · 19-03-2019 6:55pm

Some really good ideas in there. It's going to be so variable though, ultra dependent on having a low latency connection, which has been the downfall of every other streaming service. Getting the machines closer to the user will make a difference though, one of the benefits of having cloud infrastructure all over the world.

It's interesting that the three big players in cloud computing (Amazon, Google, Microsoft) are all making moves in the game streaming sector, while Sony's effort is in danger of being left behind, presumably because they don't have the infrastructure already built.

Corholio · 19-03-2019 7:09pm

Amazing that such a huge company like Google could have such a dull, boring conference. I haven't watched any for their products, are they always as boring as that?

The ideas are there but it will run is a whole other world of matter entirely. The latency showing off Assassins Creed didn't help either, pressed jump 3 times before he actually did. Can't believe not a single different game was shown either. The Youtube stuff is just bleh and having horrible idiots like MatPat is a bad start.

jkbkhhho7t · 19-03-2019 7:20pm

Google has already changed our lives so much already I have no doubt they will pull this off , Its just the cynical way the world works right now to try and discredit them before anyone even gets a chance to test it

Standman · 19-03-2019 7:29pm

It would be cool to see what game devs could do when hardware constraints aren't as much of an issue. However, I don't like the idea of everything being in the cloud, dependant on an internet connection. It'll probably be a subscription service, too.

I just want to buy what I like and have it there to play when I want, without having to log in to google or some other company's servers for the privilege of playing a game I paid for, or having to worry about my shitty connection dropping. Not to mention that I'm already uncomfortable with the amount of info google has on everyone.

I suppose you could argue that the same thing has already happened with movies and music, and people seem to be okay with that… I dunno.

Gunmonkey · 19-03-2019 8:01pm

Not sure if it will work or not...only way would be to test it myself.

Any word on a pricing structure or how that will work at all? Service is free but you need to buy the games for your account? Would imagine there will be a Gold or Premium version that offers more coming too (dedicated internal servers or blade allotments, access to demos or betas etc etc)

Can I use a keyboard and mouse? I know they have mentioned you can use your own controller with it but good luck getting me to play Doom Eternal without a K&M!

Though, the prospect of an online game that isnt hampered by server tech on player count would be intriguing. Thats what I want to hear from a new system announcement: how this will make games "better", not "prettier"

Creamy Goodness · 19-03-2019 8:05pm

Google have a great track record of launching products only to kill them a couple of years later. I don’t see this being any different.

Riesen_Meal · 19-03-2019 8:15pm

The fact Google have tonnes of servers here in Ireland this could be promising, not sure how it will all pan out but be interested to see can it work...

I'm more of the opinion that Onlive/PSNow/Shadowplay etc don't really work that well so if anyone can do this right, it's Google...

awec · 19-03-2019 8:16pm

I'd be a lot more excited for this if it was Microsoft or Sony.

This is the future, but it's long term really. We've seen from the local-only streaming options on xbox, playstation and steam that even the slightest amount of input lag makes games unplayable.

The 4k 60fps stuff sounds like pure pie in the sky.

Unearthly · 19-03-2019 8:18pm

It sounds great if it comes to life as promised

Here's hoping

Robert ninja · 19-03-2019 8:37pm

You can see the input lag from this service. That's a nope. https://i.imgur.com/CRkQsoh.mp4

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Google has already changed our lives so much already I have no doubt they will pull this off , Its just the cynical way the world works right now to try and discredit them before anyone even gets a chance to test it

I think I use every other search engine than google because they get better results. Google deserves any suspicion it gets and then some since dozens of their employees quit because of military contracts and they've continuously aid communist China's censorship, among many other things.

marcbrophy · 19-03-2019 9:01pm

With there being a Google data centre in Dublin, Irish users should be able to get good ping.
Our ISPs are looking towards lower latency too, as 5G is set to have 1ms as the standard.
We could be looking at something entirely possible in 6 months when it launches

Smiles35 · 19-03-2019 9:05pm

Robert ninja wrote: »

You can see the input lag from this service. That's a nope. https://i.imgur.com/CRkQsoh.mp4

You can't be judging lag from those conference centers. Sometimes the internets just bad and there is nothing the hosts can do about it.

19-03-2019 9:15pm

Why copy the Sony layout for the sticks and d-pad on the controller

Robert ninja · 19-03-2019 9:26pm

Smiles35 wrote: »

You can't be judging lag from those conference centers. Sometimes the internets just bad and there is nothing the hosts can do about it.

Perhaps... but google's net worth is 250+ billion USD and they can't get set up a good presentation for a new product in one of the hottest emerging markets in the world? Hard to swallow that one.

Service types of content delivery don't appeal to me for a number of value and technical reasons. Modding, custom servers, niche games/communities... not likely to thrive or even be possible on such platforms. You can't get save a HD picture from google's image search anymore. The company just ain't the right fit for what I want out of gaming.

TitianGerm · 19-03-2019 9:36pm

Robert ninja wrote: »

Perhaps... but google's net worth is 250+ billion USD and they can't get set up a good presentation for a new product in one of the hottest emerging markets in the world? Hard to swallow that one.

Service types of content delivery don't appeal to me for a number of value and technical reasons. Modding, custom servers, niche games/communities... not likely to thrive or even be possible on such platforms. You can't get save a HD picture from google's image search anymore. The company just ain't the right fit for what I want out of gaming.

You can't save a picture from Googles image search because of copyright or something to that effect. Google have to link you back to the source.

TheValeyard · 19-03-2019 9:43pm

Anyone remember google Glass, Knol, Video, Page Creator, Dodgeball, Wave???

Google have had lot of great ideas in the past, but no real vision, focus or drive for them in the future.

I am interested though...

RobertFoster · 19-03-2019 10:32pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Anyone remember google Glass, Knol, Video, Page Creator, Dodgeball, Wave???

...Reader, Picasa, Inbox

https://killedbygoogle.com/

A lot of the capabilities mentioned are interesting, but some of it also makes me feel uneasy for some reason. I wonder what the pricing is going to be like.

19-03-2019 10:46pm

People are used to paying a certain amount for other services so I'd imagine it would be in line with Netflix, or Gamepass maybe. 10-15 euro a month maybe.

The thing that would concern me is not the games but the service, Microsoft and Sony both took a while to get Xbox Live and PSN to where they are now.

Riesen_Meal · 19-03-2019 11:32pm

All seems too good to be true to me, and I love my Google shtuff...

I'll be interested to see if they can pull it off, they talk some crap sometimes but this and it's support seems to be solid enough so far.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeFnQrgtZ9k

Dyr · 19-03-2019 11:36pm

The f**k do I want Google near my gaming.

Outkast_IRE · 19-03-2019 11:44pm

Google just want to take a cut on the micro transactions I would say , take a small cut of everything and it adds up to alot. Targeted advertising plus micro transactions is a dangerous combo to younger gamers I would say, their reach is overextending . I could see Google getting broken up in the next few years.

Won't touch off this myself , I live just outside the city and barely get 2.5MB/s download speed. Can't see it being a runner until siro rolls out in the next year or two

19-03-2019 11:54pm

Another way to gather data is part of it I'd imagine. No tin foil hat stuff here just that data is a serious commodity these days.

There was a piece on the independent recently on the amount of data an hour a connected car generates with a number of passengers and the value of that information to those that collect it.

Venom · 20-03-2019 12:10am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Anyone remember google Glass, Knol, Video, Page Creator, Dodgeball, Wave???

Google have had lot of great ideas in the past, but no real vision, focus or drive for them in the future.

I am interested though...

Great ideas but piss poor implementation for the end user experience so never a surprise they utterly fail.

Canis Lupus · 20-03-2019 6:20am

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Google has already changed our lives so much already I have no doubt they will pull this off , Its just the cynical way the world works right now to try and discredit them before anyone even gets a chance to test it

This is true. I mean, I couldn't get by without my Google+ account.

OldMrBrennan83 · 20-03-2019 7:22am

Bambi wrote: »

The f**k do I want Google near my gaming.

It's the only company I want near mine.

Smiles35 · 20-03-2019 8:36am

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Google just want to take a cut on the micro transactions I would say , take a small cut of everything and it adds up to alot. Targeted advertising plus micro transactions is a dangerous combo to younger gamers I would say, their reach is overextending . I could see Google getting broken up in the next few years.

That's more like what they'd be going after. They already have their Play gift cards. Get more people buying those and they have they have them opening up to buy a bit of everything.

They are heading for anti-trust, 'monopoly' lawsuits down the line.

heebusjeebus · 20-03-2019 9:16am

This google product will be dead in a few years.
I don't even know who they are aiming it at as the focus from the videos I saw yesterday seem to be around how easy it was to stream it to youtube.
"Serious" youtube or twitch streamers will have no reason to use this due to the unavoidable increase in lag and would just use their main PC rig or console.

The target market is tiny:

user1842 · 20-03-2019 9:37am

marcbrophy wrote: »

With there being a Google data centre in Dublin, Irish users should be able to get good ping.
Our ISPs are looking towards lower latency too, as 5G is set to have 1ms as the standard.
We could be looking at something entirely possible in 6 months when it launches

Haha, 5G......

Pigs will fly if this will ever work properly on a 5G connection.

This 5G hype is nothing but snake oil. Just like the 4G hype.

marcbrophy · 20-03-2019 11:42am

user1842 wrote: »

Haha, 5G......

Pigs will fly if this will ever work properly on a 5G connection.

This 5G hype is nothing but snake oil. Just like the 4G hype.

I'm just saying that the tech allows for it.
I cannot guarantee you that the implementation won't he a shítshow!

20-03-2019 11:49am

I don't know. Just smacks of 1980s style arcade model again. The companies will bleed users dry on this.

Machine rental fees, game subscription fees, same transactions as already built in.
If it were a set fee for machine access and digital ownership of games maybe but it will become a money pit I fear

Benzino · 20-03-2019 2:01pm

I look forward to seeing how this goes. Google are probably the best company to do this currently, they have the infrastructure to do it. Plus the more competition, the better.

I'm not sure I understand why people are so against Google, or their involvement in gaming unless of course you avoid the big 4 (Google, Microsoft, Apple and Amazon) in general, then fair enough, this ain't for you.

piplip87 · 20-03-2019 2:09pm

Will the likes of EA and Rockstar really want to bring the likes of FIFA and GTA on board to this ?

A flat fee of 20 per month to access the streaming platform Vs thier 70 quid per game per year model they currently have. I think it's the biggest downfall of PS Now bigger studios will never get behind it and instead give us games from 4 or 5 years ago.

So will you have to pay goole your 20 per month but still have a console to play the bigger games from the bigger studios ?

wassie · 20-03-2019 2:25pm

Interesting piece by Dave Lee on the BBC that gives some food for thought on the potential impact on the industry:

Google leads gaming down a perilous path

I like the last line:

The ad-laden, endorphin-pumping, lootbox-peddling mobile gaming industry might be considered the canary in a very miserable coal-mine, here. Paying for a games console, and its games, may not be such a bad thing after all.

marcbrophy · 20-03-2019 2:35pm

piplip87 wrote: »

Will the likes of EA and Rockstar really want to bring the likes of FIFA and GTA on board to this ?

A flat fee of 20 per month to access the streaming platform Vs thier 70 quid per game per year model they currently have. I think it's the biggest downfall of PS Now bigger studios will never get behind it and instead give us games from 4 or 5 years ago.

So will you have to pay goole your 20 per month but still have a console to play the bigger games from the bigger studios ?

Who told you it was going to be a 20 quid per month streaming service?

Maybe it'll be a per month streaming service.
Maybe it'll cost a price per title for "ownership" access.
Maybe it'll be tiered pricing streaming service where AAA content will be X per month, when other content is Y per month.
Maybe it'll be all of the above.

These details are not known yet

Varik · 20-03-2019 4:46pm

Thinking there, might be able to purchase though google play store or a aspect of it and hence use carrier billing.

Kiith · 20-03-2019 4:57pm

EA already have a service model implemented (all EA games for €12.99 a month), and it's only a matter of time before others go down that route.

Whether or not they want to share that with another provider is another question.

Lone Stone · 20-03-2019 5:01pm

i use to be against digital purchases of game's now i never buy boxed copies, if it becomes convenient and cheap enough i'd consider it. Could be interesting depends on the cost to play and broad band limits are the only thing i see making most people not even bother trying it.

awec · 20-03-2019 5:20pm

25mb/s required for 1080p, which pretty much rules out most of rural Ireland.

AlmightyCushion · 20-03-2019 5:36pm

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This google product will be dead in a few years.
I don't even know who they are aiming it at as the focus from the videos I saw yesterday seem to be around how easy it was to stream it to youtube.
"Serious" youtube or twitch streamers will have no reason to use this due to the unavoidable increase in lag and would just use their main PC rig or console.

The target market is tiny:

That target market isn't tiny, it's pretty huge. It's the bluray vs streaming arguement all over again. Most people don't really care too much about visual quality. Sure really good graphics are nice and so is really low ping, but most people really don't give a shít. They value convenience and cost more. Also, I don't think lag will be too big of a deal here. The trial of project stream went pretty well and I seen plenty of good reports about it. Google have data centres all over the place and a great peering. Sure, it won't be as good as having it on your local machine but for most people it'll be grand.

If it's priced right and has a decent catalogue of games I think it can suceed.

Venom · 20-03-2019 6:29pm

The guys a bit of a dose but his scoops tend to be on the money.

Seem's a Google insider has been taking out of shop to him, so we now know that the plan for Stadia is

The service is free so the player is the product as with all Google services.
There will be a separate shop from the Play store to buy games.
It's looking like it will only run from the Chrome browser.

20-03-2019 6:59pm

I do agree with the point that more competition is better for the consumer (usually).

if the pricing is true about only paying for game purchase then that would be impressive.

dreamers75 · 20-03-2019 7:04pm

This is highly unlikely to work with Multiplayer games that require some sort of fast paced skill.

I guess turn based RTS type games would work but PUBG/Fortnite/Apex most likely wont be playable.

awec · 20-03-2019 7:20pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

That target market isn't tiny, it's pretty huge. It's the bluray vs streaming arguement all over again. Most people don't really care too much about visual quality. Sure really good graphics are nice and so is really low ping, but most people really don't give a shít. They value convenience and cost more. Also, I don't think lag will be too big of a deal here. The trial of project stream went pretty well and I seen plenty of good reports about it. Google have data centres all over the place and a great peering. Sure, it won't be as good as having it on your local machine but for most people it'll be grand.

If it's priced right and has a decent catalogue of games I think it can suceed.

Lag will be an enormous deal for any FPS game. Even small amounts of lag drastically reduce the experience in these games.

The steaming / bluray thing is a bad comparison because there is no concern about lag there. The visual quality thing is just about pure bandwidth, the same as streaming TV / movies, if you've enough bandiwidth you'll be able to stream higher quality. The lag thing is a totally different kettle of fish, and is not just solved with bandwidth.

AlmightyCushion · 20-03-2019 7:43pm

awec wrote: »

Lag will be an enormous deal for any FPS game. Even small amounts of lag drastically reduce the experience in these games.

The steaming / bluray thing is a bad comparison because there is no concern about lag there. The visual quality thing is just about pure bandwidth, the same as streaming TV / movies, if you've enough bandiwidth you'll be able to stream higher quality. The lag thing is a totally different kettle of fish, and is not just solved with bandwidth.

Once again. Whilst it won't be as good as your local machine for most people it will be good enough. The comparison with Bluray/streaming was because when streaming was still relatively new people were saying it would never work because Bluray is soooooo much better, quality wise. They couldn't see that the vast majority of people don't have their same standards for quality. They don't care that Bluray is better because the stream is good enough. Same as this. A lot of people won't care that there is more latency with streaming games because it will be good enough. People have already been saying this about the project stream beta.

If anyone can minimise the latency for this it will be one of the big internet giants like Google, Amazon or Microsoft. They have data centres every where so people will be relatively close to one which will minimise latency. I think they can get it to a level where most people will think it's good enough. Price and library will be what really determines if it will succeed.

Venom · 20-03-2019 8:11pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Once again. Whilst it won't be as good as your local machine for most people it will be good enough. The comparison with Bluray/streaming was because when streaming was still relatively new people were saying it would never work because Bluray is soooooo much better, quality wise. They couldn't see that the vast majority of people don't have their same standards for quality. They don't care that Bluray is better because the stream is good enough. Same as this. A lot of people won't care that there is more latency with streaming games because it will be good enough. People have already been saying this about the project stream beta.

If anyone can minimise the latency for this it will be one of the big internet giants like Google, Amazon or Microsoft. They have data centres every where so people will be relatively close to one which will minimise latency. I think they can get it to a level where most people will think it's good enough. Price and library will be what really determines if it will succeed.

The price of Bluray vs streaming was also a huge factor as the likes of Netflix started off pretty cheap when compared to the high price of a Bluray disc.

It's also not just a case of Google having data centres everywhere but more of how good someone's net connection to those data centres is, which for vast amounts of people just won't be good enough.

awec · 20-03-2019 9:37pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Once again. Whilst it won't be as good as your local machine for most people it will be good enough. The comparison with Bluray/streaming was because when streaming was still relatively new people were saying it would never work because Bluray is soooooo much better, quality wise. They couldn't see that the vast majority of people don't have their same standards for quality. They don't care that Bluray is better because the stream is good enough. Same as this. A lot of people won't care that there is more latency with streaming games because it will be good enough. People have already been saying this about the project stream beta.

If anyone can minimise the latency for this it will be one of the big internet giants like Google, Amazon or Microsoft. They have data centres every where so people will be relatively close to one which will minimise latency. I think they can get it to a level where most people will think it's good enough. Price and library will be what really determines if it will succeed.

But that's the point, it's not the same, it's entirely different. The limitations for high quality streaming are purely your connection speed. Faster connection = higher quality. The tolerances when it comes to connection speed are much higher, like you can just leave something to buffer for a few minutes before watching it if your connection is a little bit slow.

When it comes to lag, it has nothing to do with your connection speed. You could live right on top of the google data centre, on a fiber connection, and still suffer from lag.

The annoyances and frustration of latency (i.e. lag) are infinitely worse than having to watch something at a lower quality than you're used to. For example, I am betting every single person would prefer to watch a TV show that is only 720p, rather than a 1080p show where the audio is noticeably lagging behind the video. In the same vein, accepting games at a lower quality is one thing, accepting games where there is a noticeable lag in the controls is another thing entirely, even for the most casual of casual gamers.

AlmightyCushion · 20-03-2019 9:48pm

awec wrote: »

But that's the point, it's not the same, it's entirely different. The limitations for high quality streaming are purely your connection speed. Faster connection = higher quality. The tolerances when it comes to connection speed are much higher, like you can just leave something to buffer for a few minutes before watching it if your connection is a little bit slow.

When it comes to lag, it has nothing to do with your connection speed. You could live right on top of the google data centre, on a fiber connection, and still suffer from lag.

The annoyances and frustration of latency (i.e. lag) are infinitely worse than having to watch something at a lower quality than you're used to. For example, I am betting every single person would prefer to watch a TV show that is only 720p, rather than a 1080p show where the audio is noticeably lagging behind the video. In the same vein, accepting games at a lower quality is one thing, accepting games where there is a noticeable lag in the controls is another thing entirely, even for the most casual of casual gamers.

I know how latency works and I know higher bandwidth doesn't reduce latency, my comparison with Blu-ray Vs streaming is to do with the good enough factor. Lag will be worse with game streaming but that won't matter is it's good enough for most people. I think it will be good enough for most people.

Cordell · 22-03-2019 3:16pm

For most people lag will not be worse than the video input lag of their tv. They are already accustomed to 30 fps laggy gaming, so this will be actually an improvement.
For the PCMR, this may be the end, the final nail in the coffin.

awec · 22-03-2019 3:19pm

Cordell wrote: »

For most people lag will not be worse than the video input lag of their tv. They are already accustomed to 30 fps laggy gaming, so this will be actually an improvement.
For the PCMR, this may be the end, the final nail in the coffin.

That lag will still be there.

This will be additional lag on top of that.

Google Stadia

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