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Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

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    #422
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    You are still comparing State actors with the unlawful terrorist groups, which is telling.
    You can compare the over 300,000 who served tours of duty in N. Ireland with the terrorists on both sides if you want, my point was should justice and equality not prevail? As was said, if some atrocities are investigated and those who murdered or broke the law punished, should not all who murdered or broke the law be punished?


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    #423
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    You can compare the over 300,000 who served tours of duty in N. Ireland with the terrorists on both sides if you want,
    You want the people of northern Ireland to thank them for not killing them, is it?
    my point was should justice and equality not prevail? As was said, if some atrocities are investigated and those who murdered or broke the law punished, should not all who murdered or broke the law be punished?

    Who isn't being pursued and punished?


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    #424
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I cannot remember much of the English riots in 2011 - had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?

    That is a despicable insinuation, that the innocent, peaceful demonstrators who were murdered had bombs and had previously killed. It's most likely pointless to tell you that you owe an apology to their grieving relatives. However, you have utterly undermined your credibility in this thread and are no longer to be taken seriously here.


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    #425
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    feargale wrote: »
    That is a despicable insinuation,.

    If you look back on the thread I said those killed on Bloody Sunday were innocent and should not have been killed. It was someone else who mentioned the English riots of 2011. I asked them to tell me more about that, they seemed to know more about the English riots than I do.


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    #426
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    If you look back on the thread I said those killed on Bloody Sunday were innocent and should not have been killed. It was someone else who mentioned the English riots of 2011. I asked them to tell me more about that, they seemed to know more about the English riots than I do.

    So, if they were innocent in your eyes, why did you ask this?
    had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?


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    #427
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So, if they were innocent in your eyes, why did you ask this?

    I fully accept the findings of the Saville report. Saville, who chaired the Bloody Sunday inquiry, had things to say about the nail bombs found but they could have been planted. Indeed they probably were planted on the 1 person, sure the British were capable of anything. The people shot on Bloody Sunday should not have been shot. Did you never read the Saville report?
    Now tell me, or will I have to google, about the English riots of 2011. What happened there?


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    #428
    Choochtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I cannot remember much of the English riots in 2011 - had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?


    A disgusting and disgraceful insinuation


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    #429
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I fully accept the findings of the Saville report.

    If you accept the findings (and yes, I have read the Saville report) why did you ask this?
    had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?

    You don't need to know anything about the English Riots.


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    #430
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I fully accept the findings of the Saville report.
    Did you never read the Saville report?
    Now tell me, or will I have to google, about the English riots of 2011.

    The point, as well you know, is that there have been plenty riots on the British mainland and never have the army gotten trigger happy on unarmed people. But when you say in those riots, did the people have bombs and had they killed previously, it at least reads like you're saying cause that was the case with the people shot on Bloody Sunday.


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    #431
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    And so it begins-raking up the past going to cause more trouble.
    https://www.derrynow.com/news/republicans-say-will-radically-confront-proposed-british-army-veterans-rally-derry/271313


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    #432
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    And so it begins-raking up the past going to cause more trouble.
    https://www.derrynow.com/news/republicans-say-will-radically-confront-proposed-british-army-veterans-rally-derry/271313

    Have you found that link yet? Make no mistake how scurrilous I think your lie was.
    Like everybody else I debate in good faith that lies won't be told about what I say. Where did I respond to the Derry bombing with 'glee'?


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    #433
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You don't need to know anything about the English Riots.

    So you are telling me what I need or not need to know? After someone else brought the subject of the English riots of 2011 in to the discussion.


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    #434
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    So you are telling me what I need or not need to know? After someone else brought the subject of the English riots of 2011 in to the discussion.

    Simple question and you don't need to know anything specific about riots that injured people and wrecked multiple properties over several days.

    Why did you say this?
    had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?


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    #435
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Because I was interested in learning more about the English riots, seeing as someone else mentioned them and I know little or nothing about them. Now you tell me I "don't need to know anything about the English Riots."


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    #436
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Because I was interested in learning more about the English riots, seeing as someone else mentioned them and I know little or nothing about them. Now you tell me I "don't need to know anything about the English Riots."

    People rioted over several days and wrecked and looted many properties. Nobody was shot by security forces.


    Now why did you make this comparison? What was it based on?
    had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?


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    #437
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    People rioted over several days and wrecked and looted many properties. Nobody was shot by security forces.

    Well, I am after googling it, and it says " 2011 England riots, more widely known as the London Riots were a series of riots between the 6th of August and 11 August 2011, when thousands of people rioted in cities and towns across England, saw looting, arson, and mass deployment of police, and resulted in the deaths of five people"

    I condemn all deaths as a result of riots, indeed all unlawful deaths and violence. People who kill should be investigated and face the law. I know you did not condemn all killings as a result of violence.


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    #438
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Well, I am after googling it, and it says " 2011 England riots, more widely known as the London Riots were a series of riots between the 6th of August and 11 August 2011, when thousands of people rioted in cities and towns across England, saw looting, arson, and mass deployment of police, and resulted in the deaths of five people"

    I condemn all deaths as a result of riots, indeed all unlawful deaths and violence. People who kill should be investigated and face the law.

    So why did you say this?

    had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?


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    #439
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    And so it begins-raking up the past going to cause more trouble.
    https://www.derrynow.com/news/republicans-say-will-radically-confront-proposed-british-army-veterans-rally-derry/271313

    nothing to do with the necessary raking up of the past because there was a large scale attempt to cover it up. this is simply a bunch of bitter old trouble makers who haven't moved past the 1970s, going to derry to cause trouble. they will not win. they will be saw for the joke they are. they are pathetic.
    the people of derry will not rise to the bate, i really believe that.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #440
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So why did you say this?
    told you already


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    #441
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    told you already

    Yeh, you did of course. Disgraceful from somebody who claims to have read the report.


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    #442
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    end of the road wrote: »
    nothing to do with the necessary raking up of the past because there was a large scale attempt to cover it up. this is simply a bunch of bitter old trouble makers who haven't moved past the 1970s, going to derry to cause trouble. they will not win. they will be saw for the joke they are. they are pathetic.
    the people of derry will not rise to the bate, i really believe that.

    I agree that them going there is a bad idea.


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    #443
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Soldier ****face is a good start. Hopefully they trial a few more before their day of reckoning comes.


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    #444
    Maurice Yeltsin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 127 ✭✭Maurice Yeltsin


    Odhinn wrote: »
    "rule of law for all"? A total of four british soldiers were convicted over thirty years. Not a one served a full sentence and all rejoined their regiments after their prison time.





    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Clegg


    http://www.patfinucanecentre.org/state-violence/chronology-events-case-murdered-teenager-peter-mcbride

    There's a certain irony about republicans decrying sentences for shooting catholic youths driving stolen cars......


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    #445
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Maurice Yeltsin wrote: »
    There's a certain irony about republicans decrying sentences for shooting catholic youths driving stolen cars......
    During the troubles, I remember after a car drove through an Irish Defence Forces check point in Urlingford, County Kilkenny the driver of the car was shot and killed too. Sad times.


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    #446
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    janfebmar wrote:
    During the troubles, I remember after a car drove through an Irish Defence Forces check point in Urlingford, County Kilkenny the driver of the car was shot and killed too. Sad times.


    You mean a shootout with Dessie O Hare attempting to crash through a check point and his companion being shoot. My god but you are pathetic.


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    #447
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Have you a link to where I responded to the car bomb in Derry with 'glee'?

    I checked back on the car bomb in Derry thread and was wrong to say you responded with glee-i apologise for saying that.


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    #448
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I checked back on the car bomb in Derry thread and was wrong to say you responded with glee-i apologise for saying that.

    Apology accepted and appreciated.


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    #449
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You mean a shootout with Dessie O Hare attempting to crash through a check point and his companion being shoot.

    A car broke through a checkpoint and Irish security forces fired on it, killing an occupant and wounding another. Shortly afterwards Taoiseach Charles Haughey congratulated the Gardai and army and said the Irish people owed them 'a great debt of gratitude.'


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    #450
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    janfebmar wrote:
    A car broke through a checkpoint and Irish security forces fired on it, killing an occupant and wounding another. Shortly afterwards Taoiseach Charles Haughey congratulated the Gardai and army and said the Irish people owed them 'a great debt of gratitude.'


    With Dessie O' Hare, a known terrorist driving it. That's the bit you left out. As I said you are pathetic but you have form.


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    #451
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    With Dessie O' Hare, a known terrorist driving it.
    So it was ok to kill his companion? And to get commended by the Taoiseach for doing so.

    And yet if a soldier kills an unknown person in a speeding car that breaks through a checkpoint in N. Ireland, I thought I read that the soldier responsible there spent years in prison. Maybe I was wrong.


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