Madeleine McCann

Snake Plisken · 17-03-2019 09:46PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Trekker09 wrote: »

While all of the above are possible, I can't really see them being probable.

I firmly believe that she was abducted.

That was a good series, clarified in my mind that Madeline was abducted. Only crime that Kate and Gerry did was leave their children alone and they have paid for this mistake every day since. Just hope Madeline was taken by some childless couple and not some Pedo network.

iamwhoiam · 17-03-2019 09:47PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Could have taken the sister, no need for hand over mouth to keep her quiet, she and her brother were zonked anyway, and slept through the resulting mayhem.

If an abductor was the reason, and they had researched the situation, an accomplice or two would achieve the abduction of three kids in two minutes.

Sorry I am very annoyed at those saying the three kids could never have been taken by one person. There could have been more than one. But anyway, IMV it is all bobblycocks anyway.

No one said they " couldn't " but that is would be a lot easier to take one
Taking just one doesn't rule out an abduction in my opinion
But sure none of us know we are all only guessing really

scamalert · 17-03-2019 09:54PM

problem is that theres not a shred of evidence to support abduction either. the only thing there is, what family claims to happen on the last day which amounts to nothing as well. Like a claim about open blinds wich been proven to work only from inside and why risk that when you can walk out in a second via main exit as you entered, since wind claim aside it would prob bought another hour or two for kidnapper. its little lies and inconsistencies that really dont make much sense as a claim of facts. why tell you had walked trough resort access when you actually left open gates to main street and used it as main route which again prompts reason why ?

Trekker09 · 17-03-2019 09:57PM

scamalert wrote: »

problem is that theres not a shred of evidence to support abduction either. the only thing there is, what family claims to happen on the last day which amounts to nothing as well. Like a claim about open blinds wich been proven to work only from inside and why risk that when you can walk out in a second via main exit as you entered, since wind claim aside it would prob bought another hour or two for kidnapper. its little lies and inconsistencies that really dont make much sense as a claim of facts. why tell you had walked trough resort access when you actually left open gates to main street and used it as main route which again prompts reason why ?

So what do you think happened?

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 10:02PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

Though I don't agree with your scenarios they are valid and you believe them, which should be respected.

Sad and all that the mystery of the child's disappearance is, there is no getting away from the fact that everyone and his/her mother will have a theory.

I have mine, others have theirs. No proof of abduction gets me I have to say. So shoot me now.

scamalert · 17-03-2019 10:08PM

Trekker09 wrote: »

So what do you think happened?

its not about speculating its about asking why did it happen, as i said what was the reason to leave main gate open and apartment as well, would you act the same if you went on holidays and left all your cash knowing main gate is open to street and anyone could basically walk in and go out, while you drink and be like oh it will be fine if ill check every half an hour.

I bet if you did something like that and told someone the minute you did youd be called all names, now replace that with 3 children under 3 and rationalize that.

Plumbthedepths · 17-03-2019 10:14PM

"F**king b**tards took her". According to witnesses this is what Kate screamed the night Madeline disappeared. I wonder what made her so sure and not entertainthe thought her unsupervised child may have wandered off after waking up and not knowing where her parents were.

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 10:20PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

"F**king b**tards took her". According to witnesses this is what Kate screamed the night Madeline disappeared. I wonder what made her so sure and not entertainthe thought her unsupervised child may have wandered off after waking up and not knowing where her parents were.

Drink could have been a factor here too. Anyway I thought she said "they've taken her"

WTAF? How did KMC know this. But look, I am as interested in this mystery as everyone else posting is TBH, probably not good for my brain, must get a life ha ha.

Mike9832 · 17-03-2019 10:21PM

scamalert wrote: »

would you act the same if you went on holidays and left all your cash knowing main gate is open to street and anyone could basically walk in and go out, while you drink and be like oh it will be fine if ill check every half an hour.

That's a good point

Would they have left 20k in cash in that situation

**** no they would

Mike9832 · 17-03-2019 10:27PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The twins never woke the night in question despite all the commotion in the apartment. Which lead to the suggestion they were sedated .

Crazy

2 year olds are alert, i don't believe for a second the twins would have not woke up

A few day old newborn might sleep in such a situation from my experience anyway

Portuguese would have broke them if they stayed

They know a lot more than they are letting on that's for sure

Mike9832 · 17-03-2019 10:28PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

"F**king b**tards took her". According to witnesses this is what Kate screamed the night Madeline disappeared. I wonder what made her so sure and not entertainthe thought her unsupervised child may have wandered off after waking up and not knowing where her parents were.

She was probably langered

Calltocall · 17-03-2019 10:31PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Trekker09 wrote: »

While all of the above are possible, I can't really see them being probable.

I firmly believe that she was abducted.

I’ve always felt she was abducted, putting aside the rights and wrongs of the parents for a moment and focusing on what could have happened based on information/leads I’ve gone back over information online after watching the documentary as there was a segment about this charity collector that just didn’t sit right with me, from reading one website it was reported by a number of different people that a man was hanging around the general area collecting money for an orphanage, there were at least three separate incidents reported of this.

1. Paul Gordon - who stayed in the same apartment as the mcanns the week previous, reported that he was approached by a man outside his apartment who said he was raising money for an orphanage, he gave him a tenner, he reported this to police after the madeleine story broke.

2. Unidentified British woman in early 2007 in praia da luz - reported a man raising money for an orphanage knocked on her door, and reported he was affixed on her three year old daughter, she refused to give him money. That morning when walking her child to school the same man was hanging around the school, close to the ocean club apartments. The next day the woman said she found an intruder in her house speaking to her three year old daughter, he fled when he heard her coming down the stairs.

3. Gail Cooper reported she was asked by an unknown male for money for an orphanage, she said he made her uneasy, she said she saw the man three times, once in proximity to a childrens group playing on the beach, she gave a photofit description which apparently jane tanner said was 80% like the individual she saw walking away from the apartments with a child in his arms.

Now, apparently the agency responsible for orphanages in Portugal were asked and they said they have no orphanages near the area and they knew nothing of collectors looking for Money. Does anyone know how well those leads were investigated? Could well of been a scam but the woman who reported a man that intruded into her property and was speaking to her little girl in the same area as Madeliene mcanns hotel in the same year she went missing does raise eyebrows to say the least, that’s not an everyday occurrence and with all the messing with the investigation I hope this was given serious consideration.

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 10:38PM

So the only child in the resort was abducted. Pfff.

I am guessing that the daycare kiddies club was full of blond three year olds.

Why Madeleine, and not the children of the so called Tapas friends or others in the resort at that time?

Does not add up for me anyway.

iamwhoiam · 17-03-2019 10:46PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So the only child in the resort was abducted. Pfff.

I am guessing that the daycare kiddies club was full of blond three year olds.

Why Madeleine, and not the children of the so called Tapas friends or others in the resort at that time?

Does not add up for me anyway.

Because maybe the other three year old blonde girls parents stayed with them and locked the door .
And The Mc Canns apartment was the most vulnerable and close to the road

17-03-2019 10:48PM

In the absence of any evidence as to what did actually happen, people are blaming her parents for leaving her alone. It's natural to want someone to blame but the person to blame is actually whoever is responsible for her disappearance.

I'm not going to keep stating the same thing, unlike many on here! This is the case, as I see it;

A child is missing, last seen in bed in the apartment. Possible scenarios are

1. Child wakes, walks out of apartment, gets lost, is never found.

2. Child wakes, walks out & is taken by someone.

3. Child is taken from apartment by someone unknown.

4. Child is taken from apartment by someone known

5. Child dies / is killed & body is hidden, never to be found.

Now, while there is no evidence of any one particular theory, some are naturally more likely or less likely than others.
In Ireland, the chances of a child abduction by a stranger are practically zero, on the continent however things are different. So, her being abducted either from the street or from the apartment could be likely.
Her being abducted by someone known to her is a possibility, maybe someone in the group had an accomplice.
Her wandering out alone, & never being seen again is highly unlikely.
Her being killed or dieing in the apartment & her body being hidden somewhere never to be found is unlikely. Reasons being, timeline of events, behavior of parents, local knowledge of area by parents, chances to move a dead body & hide it somewhere never to be found all while being in the centre of a huge Investigation, highly unlikely.

So I would suggest that the most obvious scenario is she either wandered outside & got taken or someone went into the apartment & took her.

17-03-2019 10:53PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why Madeleine, and not the children of the so called Tapas friends or others in the resort at that time?

Does not add up for me anyway.

& if it was one of the other children you would be saying the same about that child.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here?

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 10:54PM

There was so much support from British establishment. So if anything dodgy happened it would never be revealed really.

I was amazed at the time at the amount of publicity, PR gurus, lawyers, lawsuits, Murat, and Malinka, and everything else that I just said to myself WTAF is going on here. Do they want to find their daughter, or shut dissenting voices.

I reckon there are D notices here.

Sorry for the little child.

scamalert · 17-03-2019 10:55PM

Calltocall wrote: »

I’ve always felt she was abducted, putting aside the rights and wrongs of the parents for a moment and focusing on what could have happened based on information/leads I’ve gone back over information online after watching the documentary as there was a segment about this charity collector that just didn’t sit right with me, from reading one website it was reported by a number of different people that a man was hanging around the general area collecting money for an orphanage, there were at least three separate incidents reported of this.

1. Paul Gordon - who stayed in the same apartment as the mcanns the week previous, reported that he was approached by a man outside his apartment who said he was raising money for an orphanage, he gave him a tenner, he reported this to police after the madeleine story broke.

2. Unidentified British woman in early 2007 in praia da luz - reported a man raising money for an orphanage knocked on her door, and reported he was affixed on her three year old daughter, she refused to give him money. That morning when walking her child to school the same man was hanging around the school, close to the ocean club apartments. The next day the woman said she found an intruder in her house speaking to her three year old daughter, he fled when he heard her coming down the stairs.

.

yeah sounds totally legit, stranger in house with your kid, sure report it next time when theres kid missing about it being suspicious.

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 10:59PM

scamalert wrote: »

yeah sounds totally legit, stranger in house with your kid, sure report it next time when theres kid missing about it being suspicious.

Does no one lock their doors anymore FGS.

Perfect foil for the mcs anyway. Ah sure it's Portugal, we don't need to lock up at all, but there are paedophiles out there abducting 3 year olds to order.

No bother at all.

Calltocall · 17-03-2019 11:06PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Because maybe the other three year old blonde girls parents stayed with them and locked the door .
And The Mc Canns apartment was the most vulnerable and close to the road

Exactly, you could say that about any abduction case, why that child and not another, it comes down to opportunity and timing, they gave the opportunity by leaving the room unlocked.

I strongly suspect he was watching the group and made his move after the last parent checked on the kids, you have to remember also one piece of key information is that hotel staff put a note in a book which stated the mcanns block booked a table for themselves and their friends from 8.30 for four nights and it mentioned in the note that their kids were sleeping in their rooms, this book was left at a reception area visible for anyone to see. For someone with ill intent they gave him the opportunity by unlocking the door and the note gave him the times when they were away from their room.

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 11:16PM

Sorry now, but firstly how could any parent go on the lash and leave three kids under the age of four alone? That is just unthinkable to me, but I may be alone in thinking that.

Secondly how could they think that leaving the doors unlocked was sensible. Well in fairness if you deem leaving your little kids alone, possibly leaving the doors unlocked was not on the radar.

The whole thing stinks to me.

But D notices abound, and we will never know.

But there is no evidence of an abductor either is there?

scamalert · 17-03-2019 11:19PM

yeah ok so we got that their aptm was closest to main street and, and as dumb as it sounds they had a note with times they will visits their kids at reception for some reason.

Now why would someone risk opening blinds if they had targeted that house why would someone open blinds, or even use them to jump out given its resorts all over place and pretty much lit up street so more chance to draw unwanted attention ?

as if it was such a timed kidnap why not put a towel under kids blanket or smth and buy yourself a days start, as given all records on checks it seems not a single parent went actually inside just a peek trough doors, as besides wind gust story it seems they prob wouldn't noticed it until next day.

17-03-2019 11:27PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sorry now, but firstly how could any parent go on the lash and leave three kids under the age of four alone? That is just unthinkable to me, but I may be alone in thinking that.

Secondly how could they think that leaving the doors unlocked was sensible. Well in fairness if you deem leaving your little kids alone, possibly leaving the doors unlocked was not on the radar.

The whole thing stinks to me.

But D notices abound, and we will never know.

But there is no evidence of an abductor either is there?

Same thing over & over.....
You don't like the McCanns, obviously, we get it. Leaving kids alone does not make someone responsible for their disappearance, whoever caused them to disappear, or dissapeared them, I know you love that word! Is responsible.
There's no evidence of anything, so like I said its a case of which is most likely to have happened.

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 11:30PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Same thing over & over.....
You don't like the McCanns, obviously, we get it. Leaving kids alone does not make someone responsible for their disappearance, whoever caused them to disappear, or dissapeared them, I know you love that word! Is responsible.
There's no evidence of anything, so like I said its a case of which is most likely to have happened.

There is no need to get personal at all. Where did I say I didn't like the McCanns anyway? You might have a link for that.

I said what a lot of people also say.

It is a discussion forum. As long as we are civil with each other and not libellous it's all good.

Calltocall · 17-03-2019 11:31PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sorry now, but firstly how could any parent go on the lash and leave three kids under the age of four alone? That is just unthinkable to me, but I may be alone in thinking that.

Secondly how could they think that leaving the doors unlocked was sensible. Well in fairness if you deem leaving your little kids alone, possibly leaving the doors unlocked was not on the radar.

The whole thing stinks to me.

But D notices abound, and we will never know.

But there is no evidence of an abductor either is there?

I agree it was not sensible or right to leave their children alone in an unlocked room they will have to live with that mistake and will be haunted by that forever, that being said an awful lot of this case has been focused on the moral actions of the parents etc which imo has taken the focus off the actual ****ing scumbag who abducted the child and all this back and forth arguing between police forces etc took the focus off him and allowed him to slip through the net, there’s a lot of eye raising plausible theories mentioned in the doc such as the charity collector to warrant throwing everything behind finding that individual however it didn’t happen and a lot of this stuff came to light years later through private investigators when it was really too late, the whole thing is a tragedy.

dark crystal · 17-03-2019 11:32PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sorry now, but firstly how could any parent go on the lash and leave three kids under the age of four alone? That is just unthinkable to me, but I may be alone in thinking that.

Secondly how could they think that leaving the doors unlocked was sensible. Well in fairness if you deem leaving your little kids alone, possibly leaving the doors unlocked was not on the radar.

The whole thing stinks to me.

But D notices abound, and we will never know.

But there is no evidence of an abductor either is there?

You are literally repeating the same paragraphs over and over again. We got it the first dozen times...the McCanns were wrong for leaving the children, D notices something and no evidence of abduction etc..

Anything new to add to the discussion?

Creol1 · 17-03-2019 11:34PM

Something Else

There's no smoking gun but my view is that the parents must have been responsible in some way for their daughter's disappearance/death, because, even though there is no conclusive evidence, it is too much of a stretch of credulity to believe anything else.

If we believe she was abducted by a stranger, then we have to believe that he managed to steal the child not only without being caught in a busy holiday resort, but that, critically, he did not even leave the merest trace of his own DNA evidence in the apartment; we have to believe that it was a coincidence that world-class cadaver dogs went through several different apartments and alighted on a cadaver odour in the cupboard of the apartment Madeleine had been in; that it was a coincidence that an independent witness testified that he had seen someone matching Gerry McCann's features with a child or the body of a child around the time of the disappearance; and that the professional instincts and judgement of the competent police authority were entirely misplaced and/or motivated by bad faith.

I just can't swallow all of that, and the denigration of the Portuguese police is something that is particularly jarring and seems to have been a feature of the case from the very beginning in coverage in the English-language media. There seems to be a touch of xenophobia in the way the British tabloids treated the Portuguese police as a mere detail in the case at best and at worst a hostile force engaging in some kind of conspiracy to frame these decent English professionals. The police force are the professionals, are linked internationally to INTERPOL and EUROPOL, and whatever thesis they come to should automatically be the preferred theory, unless there is some clear and solid evidence of corruption or bias on their part. While the McCanns were never charged, it is clear that the police in Portugal formed the view, and have never disavowed the view, that they were the most likely culprits.

Some of the alternative theories are simply risible. Apparently one idea that was actually seriously pursued by the British police was that Madeleine wandered out of the apartment and fell into a manhole somewhere, thus disappearing without trace. As for the child-trafficking theory, that this young white girl was kidnapped by a dastardly gang of North African child traffickers, this might represent the type of fears that might seem plausible in the minds of a certain segment of the English population, but to anyone else it is fanciful to the point of comical.

Involvement of her parents in her death seems to me the most likely explanation, but that's not the same as proof and if I were a member of a jury I wouldn't necessarily vote to convict her parents as probability isn't a high enough burden of proof. Even if they were responsible, Kate and Gerry McCann have built their lives around "searching" for their daughter and have probably reached they stage where they half-believe it; after this time lapse, I doubt they will ever confess, so I don't think we will ever know for sure what happened in that apartment.

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 11:37PM

Calltocall wrote: »

I agree it was not sensible or right to leave their children alone in an unlocked room they will have to live with that mistake and will be haunted by that forever, that being said an awful lot of this case has been focused on the moral actions of the parents etc which imo has taken the focus off the actual ****ing scumbag who abducted the child and all this back and forth arguing between police forces etc took the focus off him and allowed him to slip through the net, there’s a lot of eye raising plausible theories mentioned in the doc such as the charity collector to warrant throwing everything behind finding that individual however it didn’t happen and a lot of this stuff came to light years later through private investigators when it was really too late, the whole thing is a tragedy.

The fund had millions behind it, but in the end could find nothing. I do not know if that was deliberate or because there was no evidence of anything, but nothing was found. I often wonder. But anyway.

There is still no evidence of an abductor. If you think there is, why has the Fund not found this out do you think?

17-03-2019 11:41PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There is still no evidence of an abductor. If you think there is, why has the Fund not found this out do you think?

There is no evidence of anything, why do you think there was no abduction?

Spanish Eyes · 17-03-2019 11:42PM

dark crystal wrote: »

You are literally repeating the same paragraphs over and over again. We got it the first dozen times...the McCanns were wrong for leaving the children, D notices something and no evidence of abduction etc..

Anything new to add to the discussion?

Why do you care about what I say? It is a discussion, but I just wondered why you are seemingly so personal and kind of stalkerish about it.

Everyone has their theories. All are valid really given the lack of evidence for any theory.

There is really no need to personally target my posts. IMO.

Madeleine McCann

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