Madeleine McCann

juno10353 · 16-03-2019 06:07PM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You know quite well that they were not in a hotel . They were in an apartment that was on a public road . It was part of an apartment building with some private and some rented by Mark Warner
It was not an enclosed complex never mind a hotel . But you do know that

Also little gate on public road leading to balcony with door left unlocked. I wouldn't leave my handbag or jewellery unattended in apartment with door unlocked

limnam · 16-03-2019 06:09PM

splinter65 wrote: »

You keep saying “disgusting”. It's as if you imagine that the more often you say that the more chance it will become an irrefutable fact.
That’s not how opinions vs facts work though. It’s still just your opinion and even if you say it 50 times it won’t make it a fact.
The McCanns didn’t go to a pub. And they weren’t at home either. Fact.

While they were on holidays. That apartment was their "home".

According to the NSPCC toddlers and young childer should _never_ be left _alone_. Fact.

They left young kids alone in that apartment _alone_ to go and eat and drink in a restaurant. Fact.

Both parents regret that decision. Fact.

Why regret it if it was the right thing to do?

iamwhoiam · 16-03-2019 06:10PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

juno10353 wrote: »

Also little gate on public road leading to balcony with door left unlocked. I wouldn't leave my handbag or jewellery unattended in apartment with door unlocked

I would bet my last Euro that they didn't leave their credit cards or cameras or laptops in that vulnerable position .

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 06:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nor does yours for that matter . But its a discussion forum for discussing opinions

And the NSPCC are quite clear on there recommendations . At no stage did they say they were happy with the decision the Mc Canns made .

But they never said they were unhappy with the McCanns either. So mention of the NSPCC has no merit one way or the other.

16-03-2019 06:24PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes they most certainly left them home alone .. In fact so alone that someone could take one without them even noticing

I've not been to Praia de Luz, but my family used to holiday 22km east of there from when I was about 2 til I was about 12. My parents would occasionally go out to dinner just the two of them but they always got a baby sitter. Possibly one of my first crushes when I was 10 or 11 was on one of them. They were usually waitresses who wanted to make some money on the side, and from what I remember finding a babysitter was never difficult. My parents were not well off, but they still managed to spring for a babysitter if they wanted a date night. In a two week holiday they maybe did it once maybe twice. All other nights we had dinner with them even when I was 2. My Dad still has the pictures.

Hindsight is 20/20 but it would have been so easy to hire one or two babysitters, to go around continually checking on all the kids - thats if each set of couples didnt want to hire dedicated sitters for each set of kids.

According to reports the parents took it in turns to go checking on the kids every 30 minutes. If it was every 30 minutes like clock work then:
- Would you not just hire a sitter so you can enjoy your meal?
- Was it really every 30 minutes, did it sometimes become more like an hour?
- If it was 30 minutes, like clock work, every single night, plenty of time for someone to establish the routine. After a parent checking the last set of kids, a predator knows he has at least 30 minutes to do whatever.

limnam · 16-03-2019 06:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hindsight is 20/20 but it would have been so easy to hire one or two babysitters, to go around continually checking on all the kids - thats if each set of couples didnt want to hire dedicated sitters for each set of kids.

Services were offered to them but they didn't take them.

iamwhoiam · 16-03-2019 06:27PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

But they never said they were unhappy with the McCanns either. So mention of the NSPCC has no merit one way or the other.

Nobody said they did . We simply posted the NSPCC recommendations which is very similar to most parents thinking anyway . Thankfully its only a rare few who wouldn't apply those recommendations to their own lives without the need of a prompt from the NSPCC .

16-03-2019 06:29PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Services were offered to them but they didn't take them.

I know. If they didn't want to use the night creche, I'm saying they still could have hired a sitter or two to keep an eye on things.

One thing I find unusual: Was the food in the tapas restaurant so good, that they wanted to dine there practically every night?

chicorytip · 16-03-2019 06:30PM

Something Else

limnam wrote:

Both parents regret that decision. Fact.

limnam wrote:

Why regret it if it was the right thing to do?

I would have a small amount of sympathy for the parents with regard to this particular aspect of the entire story. Yes, ultimately, they did leave the child unattended but did make regular trips back from the very nearby restaurant situated in the same complex to check on her welfare. I think their actions could be described as careless and irresponsible but not reckless or neglectful. I am quite sure many loving and caring parents have left children unattended for short periods of time in similar circumstances on foreign holidays. Let's remember, the McCann's felt safe staying in the Praya De Luiz resort which they had visited many times previously and they did not set out that evening with the intention of having an all night piss up. They could not have ever imagined, even in their worst nightmares, that there happened to be child abductors at large in the immediate vicinity at that fateful time.
The child is dead and her remains are unlikely to be ever recovered. Her parents had absolutely no part in her disappearance or death.

limnam · 16-03-2019 06:31PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nobody said they did . We simply posted the NSPCC recommendations which is very similar to most parents thinking anyway . Thankfully its only a rare few who wouldn't apply those recommendations to their own lives without the need of a prompt from the NSPCC .

tbh I can't believe it has to be pointed out.

It's like nurses in paternity hospitals will have to remind parents leaving with newborns

"Don't forget now! don't leave the baby alone at home and go out eating and drinking!"

iamwhoiam · 16-03-2019 06:34PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've not been to Praia de Luz, but my family used to holiday 22km east of there from when I was about 2 til I was about 12. My parents would occasionally go out to dinner just the two of them but they always got a baby sitter. Possibly one of my first crushes when I was 10 or 11 was on one of them. They were usually waitresses who wanted to make some money on the side, and from what I remember finding a babysitter was never difficult. My parents were not well off, but they still managed to spring for a babysitter if they wanted a date night. In a two week holiday they maybe did it once maybe twice. All other nights we had dinner with them even when I was 2. My Dad still has the pictures.

Hindsight is 20/20 but it would have been so easy to hire one or two babysitters, to go around continually checking on all the kids - thats if each set of couples didnt want to hire dedicated sitters for each set of kids.

According to reports the parents took it in turns to go checking on the kids every 30 minutes. If it was every 30 minutes like clock work then:
- Would you not just hire a sitter so you can enjoy your meal?
- Was it really every 30 minutes, did it sometimes become more like an hour?
- If it was 30 minutes, like clock work, every single night, plenty of time for someone to establish the routine. After a parent checking the last set of kids, a predator knows he has at least 30 minutes to do whatever.

And Mark Warner creche staff were available to baby sit for a fee .
In P da Luz because of the layout of the apartments not even Mark Warner offered walk around babysitters as it was considered not safe

I have been to P da L and seeing where they left the kids made me and my husband gasp as we passed that apartment .

My own opinion is that it was either an opportunist who saw the gaps in checks or an inside job who knew the routine and passed it on
It would be easy to park at the front , ( the entrance facing away from the Tapas ) . Take a child into the car and gone out of the village and into rural Algarve before anyone even missed her

limnam · 16-03-2019 06:35PM

chicorytip wrote: »

I think their actions could be described as careless and irresponsible but not reckless or neglectful.

Leaving 3 kids alone at home while you eat and drink?

It's careless, irresponible, reckless and neglectful. Which led to them losing thier daughter who could have been used as a sex slave for years.

Fairly neglectful.

chicorytip wrote: »

I am quite sure many loving and caring parents have left children unattended for short periods of time in similar circumstances on foreign holidays.

Never came across anyone in my life who did this or think it's normal. Just on boards.

chicorytip wrote: »

Let's remember, the McCann's felt safe staying in the Praya De Luiz resort which they had visited many times previously and they did not set out that evening with the intention of having an all night piss up. They could not have ever imagined, even in their worst nightmares, that there happened to be child abductors at large in the immediate vicinity at that fateful time.
The child is dead and her remains are unlikely to be ever recovered. Her parents had absolutely no part in her disappearance or death.

They should have imagined it.

That's what parents are there to protect against.

Not leaving them alone and heading out eating and drinking

iamwhoiam · 16-03-2019 06:39PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

chicorytip wrote: »

I would have a small amount of sympathy for the parents with regard to this particular aspect of the entire story. Yes, ultimately, they did leave the child unattended but did make regular trips back from the very nearby restaurant situated in the same complex to check on her welfare. I think their actions could be described as careless and irresponsible but not reckless or neglectful. I am quite sure many loving and caring parents have left children unattended for short periods of time in similar circumstances on foreign holidays. Let's remember, the McCann's felt safe staying in the Praya De Luiz resort which they had visited many times previously and they did not set out that evening with the intention of having an all night piss up. They could not have ever imagined, even in their worst nightmares, that there happened to be child abductors at large in the immediate vicinity at that fateful time.
The child is dead and her remains are unlikely to be ever recovered. Her parents had absolutely no part in her disappearance or death.

The Mc Canns had never been to P da L before
The apartment was not in a complex , it was outside on a public road
I don't know a single parent who would leave a child in that situation and think it was right .

goat2 · 16-03-2019 06:56PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Two doctors would be struck off the medical register if any trace of sedation was found in the body. The body was disposed of for some reason.

Injuries to the body would also result in similar action being taken,

how do you know there is a body, and it has injuries, they have not found a body

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 07:00PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nobody said they did . We simply posted the NSPCC recommendations which is very similar to most parents thinking anyway . Thankfully its only a rare few who wouldn't apply those recommendations to their own lives without the need of a prompt from the NSPCC .

Well I don’t know who “we” is (must be a collection of like minded individuals of the type I mentioned in another post) but I myself don’t see now why you mentioned the NSPCC if you agree that they have never referenced the McCanns, good bad or indifferent. But we’ll let that pass.

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 07:03PM

splinter65 wrote:

If you canâ€™t explain how where why and when the McCanns killed and disposed of their daughter, but you still insist that they did it then, yes, you are a nut job member of a lynch mob. What else would you be?

Have I said the McCanns killed their daughter? I firmly believe they are responsible for their daughter's disappearance by their negligence. I believe that she is dead, that is my opinion. Lastly I suggest you drop the name calling it would be best if you read people's comments instead of replying to stuff no one said.

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 07:05PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You do know that leaving kids alone doesn't simply apply to the childrens own home don't you ?
But the word twisting is your MO isn't it

No I’m not the poster who mentioned twisting first. As the NSPCC have never made any reference to this, the most famous child disappeance in history, you or I have absolutely no idea what that organizations opinion is of the parenting skills of G and K McCann. None whatsoever.

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 07:08PM

chicorytip wrote:

The child is dead and her remains are unlikely to be ever recovered. Her parents had absolutely no part in her disappearance or death.

...no part in her disappearance except their actions or lack thereof contributing to, Madeline's disappearance.

limnam · 16-03-2019 07:09PM

splinter65 wrote: »

No I’m not the poster who mentioned twisting first. As the NSPCC have never made any reference to this, the most famous child disappeance in history, you or I have absolutely no idea what that organizations opinion is of the parenting skills of G and K McCann. None whatsoever.

What we do know is the McCanns went against their advice and recommendations.

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 07:12PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Have I said the McCanns killed their daughter? I firmly believe they are responsible for their daughter's disappearance by their negligence. I believe that she is dead, that is my opinion. Lastly I suggest you drop the name calling it would be best if you read people's comments instead of replying to stuff no one said.

Once again, it was your good self that suggested that I would probably consider those who insist that the folk who insist that the McCanns murdered their daughter but cannot put forward a how where when or why are “nut” members of a mob ( your very words, check your post) and I agreed with you. Because that’s what you are when you hold a very strong position on something but can’t even remotely back it up. A nut job.

iamwhoiam · 16-03-2019 07:13PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

No I’m not the poster who mentioned twisting first. As the NSPCC have never made any reference to this, the most famous child disappeance in history, you or I have absolutely no idea what that organizations opinion is of the parenting skills of G and K McCann. None whatsoever.

The more you twist posters words the less sense your posts make.
We know what the NSPCC recommend so by deduction we know they would not recommend The Mc Canns actions

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 07:15PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

What we do know is the McCanns went against their advice and recommendations.

I don’t know about you but I rarely checked the NSPCC website for advice on a day to day basis. I don’t think even they expect that, but hey, I could be wrong I suppose.

limnam · 16-03-2019 07:15PM

splinter65 wrote: »

A nut job.

Is someone who leaves young kids alone in an unsecured apartment while they go wining and dining.

limnam · 16-03-2019 07:17PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know about you but I rarely checked the NSPCC website for advice on a day to day basis. I don’t think even they expect that, but hey, I could be wrong I suppose.

Considering you think it's perfectly normal to leave 3 young kids alone while wining and dining.

You might want to consult it more often.

Boom_Bap · 16-03-2019 07:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MOD

Here I was hoping that my 20,000th post on this site was going to be something awesomely hilarious, or something that will go down in the annals of boards.

But no, it's a warning to remind people of the charter and the terms of use of boards.ie, please refrain from making things personal, stick to facts and no back seat moderation or labelling of others.

Thanks

20,000. Yay.

iamwhoiam · 16-03-2019 07:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know about you but I rarely checked the NSPCC website for advice on a day to day basis. I don’t think even they expect that, but hey, I could be wrong I suppose.

Most of us don't need to check it we instinctively know whats right . I sure wouldn't need the NSPCC to tell me not to leave my toddlers alone .

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 07:27PM

splinter65 wrote:

Once again, it was your good self that suggested that I would probably consider those who insist that the folk who insist that the McCanns murdered their daughter but cannot put forward a how where when or why are â€œnutâ€ members of a mob ( your very words, check your post) and I agreed with you. Because thatâ€™s what you are when you hold a very strong position on something but canâ€™t even remotely back it up. A nut job.

Have you evidence that rules out the McCanns? Btw your post is still there where you described those who hold a different position to yourself as nut jobs part of a lynch mob. Not my words, these are the discriptors you used. I repeated them back to you. How difficult is it to read what people write, genuine question?

16-03-2019 07:28PM

Sadly it's a lot more common than we think for people to leave their children on their own, or in the care of completely unsuitable people, while they go out socialising. A social worker friend of mine tells me that they see instances of it all the time. There have been lots of cases when social services have to intervene as it is classed as child neglect.
There have also been some terrible cases of abuse at the hands of so-called babysitters who aren't fit to be taking care of young children. I know that's a separate issue.
Different social situations to the McCanns maybe, but the principle is the same.

limnam · 16-03-2019 07:28PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Most of us don't need to check it we instinctively know whats right . I sure wouldn't need the NSPCC to tell me not to leave my toddlers alone .

The McCanns know what they did was wrong.

They've said so.

They made a risky choice and paying the biggest price for it.

No one in their right mind genuinely thinks otherwise.

limnam · 16-03-2019 07:29PM

inthehat wrote: »

Sadly it's a lot more common than we think for people to leave their children on their own, or in the care of completely unsuitable people, while they go out socialising. A social worker friend of mine tells me that they see instances of it all the time. There have been lots of cases when social services have to intervene as it is classed as child neglect.
There have also been some terrible cases of abuse at the hands of so-called babysitters who aren't fit to be taking care of young children. I know that's a separate issue.
Different social situations to the McCanns maybe, but the principle is the same.

Oh if you're a working class knacker and slip out to the off license across the road it's wrong.

If you're a middle class doctor. It's fine.

Madeleine McCann

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