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Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

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Comments

  • #392
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    mayordenis wrote: »
    If everyone has guns the level of false negative killings will be through the roof, person sneezes loudly, gets shot.

    This is true, however an undercover licenced trained operative or two with a gun at these places would make all the difference and would have taken him out in seconds. We need to look seriously at this now for all large public events. In Belgium they make no bones about it with soldiers with machine guns everywhere, even at bus stations and cinemas. This is over the top and ineffective, but undercover trained people would be highly effective IMO.


  • #393
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Haven’t watched the video but read that the first guy he meets at the mosque greets him with a “good morning brother” before he’s blasted to death. That’s f*cking heartbreaking :(


  • #394
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    professore wrote: »
    This is true, however an undercover licenced trained operative or two with a gun at these places would make all the difference and would have taken him out in seconds. We need to look seriously at this now for all large public events. In Belgium they make no bones about it with soldiers with machine guns everywhere, even at bus stations and cinemas. This is over the top and ineffective, but undercover trained people would be highly effective IMO.

    I don't think it is possible to fight this fire with fire. It may just be the way things are now in the world, that ''war'' is a guerilla-style event.
    It is not two generations since the world has emerged from open warfare situations where mass slaughter was a recurring event and ordinary people participated in extraordinary evil and gore. Whole European towns fire-bombed or strafed, whole generations recruited to unremittingly bloody ground offensives. We don't do ''war'' like that now because we have convinced ourselves we are civilised (though Yugoslavia gave the lie to that) and so we have this now, these eruptions of horror from below the surface because in spite of all our technology and apparent fanciness, human beings are simply not that emotionally advanced as a species.


  • #395
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    professore wrote: »
    This is true, however an undercover licenced trained operative or two with a gun at these places would make all the difference and would have taken him out in seconds. We need to look seriously at this now for all large public events. In Belgium they make no bones about it with soldiers with machine guns everywhere, even at bus stations and cinemas. This is over the top and ineffective, but undercover trained people would be highly effective IMO.
    The presence of armed security personnel seems to have discouraged the attacker killing in Australia, he therefore attacked where security is soft. Suggest there is a warning for Ireland in this, but i don t want our society militarised either


  • #396
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    super_furry wrote:
    Oddly enough there's been nothing from the usual American NRA gun-nuts about how this would never have happened if only they had given ever worshipper a gun.

    Mod Note

    Nothing from NASA either. Or the mole people. And why haven't dolphins come out and castagated the madman.

    This didn't happen in America, we don't live in America. Please make sure your points are actually relevant.


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  • #397
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    professore wrote: »
    This is true, however an undercover licenced trained operative or two with a gun at these places would make all the difference and would have taken him out in seconds. We need to look seriously at this now for all large public events. In Belgium they make no bones about it with soldiers with machine guns everywhere, even at bus stations and cinemas. This is over the top and ineffective, but undercover trained people would be highly effective IMO.

    How many places? It happens in America more than anywhere else, going to have undercover operatives at every school, church, bus/train station, shopping centre, concert, etc there?

    That would require hundreds of thousands of people at least.

    Australia was having mass shootings every other year until the Port Arthur massacre. They went for the simplest approach and brought in gun control. No more mass shootings since.


  • #398
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Some really evil comments on my Facebook newsfeed this morning . This is hardly the time. I feel a bit sick to think I agreed with the same people about some things in the past.


  • #399
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,409 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Giveaway wrote: »
    Its mass murder pure and simple.

    You mean terrorism I assume

    It was designed to sow terror, polarisation and fear whilst being widely viewed.

    Mass murder has other objectives


  • #400
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Zorya wrote: »
    I don't think it is possible to fight this fire with fire. It may just be the way things are now in the world, that ''war'' is a guerilla-style event.
    It is not two generations since the world has emerged from open warfare situations where mass slaughter was a recurring event and ordinary people participated in extraordinary evil and gore. Whole European towns fire-bombed or strafed, whole generations recruited to unremittingly bloody ground offensives. We don't do ''war'' like that now because we have convinced ourselves we are civilised (though Yugoslavia gave the lie to that) and so we have this now, these eruptions of horror from below the surface because in spite of all our technology and apparent fanciness, human beings are simply not that emotionally advanced as a species.
    +1000. It would be my take that we're essentially fighting "World War 3" at the moment, but like you say not in the traditional way.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #401
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Wibbs wrote: »
    +1000. It would be my take that we're essentially fighting "World War 3" at the moment, but like you say not in the traditional way.

    yes, I have been speaking with a friend recently about the First Gulf War, which was the official start really of the ''clash of civilisations'' which we had all been told was coming. Though it is never mentioned anymore. That was was 28/29 years ago, and it was indeed the first overt strike in a war that I feel has been going on ever since - but somehow the narrative has been manipulated to make this an issue of hatreds among ordinary people, bigotry, fascism, racism, relgious stuff etc. When in fact it is a much bigger geo-political event that has been driven from the seats of authority and the craving for resources and power.

    Of course this is just a generalised summary, and may be incorrect in parts. But I do think this has been an ongoing war for decades. Sometimes played out in the arenas of desert countries with devastating consequnces that are downplayed all the time - the true numbers of casualties in the Middle East for example is horrific. Other times it manifests in guerilla strikes on civilians from deluded sick people from different sides.


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  • #402
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    listermint wrote: »
    You mean terrorism I assume

    It was designed to sow terror, polarisation and fear whilst being widely viewed.

    Mass murder has other objectives

    Personally I think we need to get rid of word "terrorist" all together. In a weird way it legitimatizes them and galvanizes them.

    Mass Murdering Coward is way more apt IMO.


  • #403
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The coward didn't have the balls to go to Syria to fight ISIS.

    Possible interpretations as to why:
    1. It would not have given him as much personal attention
    2. It would have involved saving Muslims (like the Kurds).
    3. It would have involved him being part of an organized military structure with people telling him what to do.
    4. He was really rather taken by ISIS style spectaculars.


  • #404
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Wibbs wrote: »
    +1000. It would be my take that we're essentially fighting "World War 3" at the moment, but like you say not in the traditional way.


    Who do you think is involved in this World War?


  • #405
    Mrcaramelchoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    Why is his face blurred on news reports?the whole planet know s who he is.


  • #406
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,050 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Mrcaramelchoc wrote:
    Why is his face blurred on news reports?the whole planet know s who he is.


    I don't, and I couldn't be bothered looking either, the damage is done


  • #407
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/15/brenton-tarrant-ordinary-white-man-turned-mass-murderer/


  • #408
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Who do you think is involved in this World War?
    There are a few actors on the stage I'd reckon M. America would be obvious enough, Russia another, China. A loose affiliation of ideologies in the Middle East and within the wider Western World. Corporations and high finance would be in the mix, as the always were. This time they want to keep it a "peaceful war", because 21st century outright war would be extremely bad for business. Places like the EU would me more like France in WW2, fought over, divided, but itself not quite sure what side it's on yet.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #409
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Pter wrote: »
    Nothing from NASA either. Or the mole people. And why haven't dolphins come out and castagated the madman.

    This didn't happen in America, we don't live in America. Please make sure your points are actually relevant.

    Didn't see a mod note or a usual bold font here so I assume you're speaking as a regular poster.

    The above is quite harsh and very condescending (dolphins and mole people) given it's a mass shooting and the NRA are forever commenting on those. What's wrong with making a point regarding that here?

    Sure we don't live in America but we don't live in NZ either yet we're discussing it here. Topics evolve and gun control has always been a major part of this topic and any mass shooting threads in general on here. It's relevant enough I'd have thought?


  • #410
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    As far as Pewdiepie is concerned, he's courted and payed lip-service to the alt right ever since their inception, I don't have much sympathy for him to be honest.


  • #411
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »
    Why is his face blurred on news reports?the whole planet know s who he is.

    Brilliant move by the Judge.

    He craves notoriety. Fook him.

    The Judge said it was "to give a fair trial", that was just bollix though.


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  • #412
    StinkyMunkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    How many places? It happens in America more than anywhere else, going to have undercover operatives at every school, church, bus/train station, shopping centre, concert, etc there?

    That would require hundreds of thousands of people at least.

    Australia was having mass shootings every other year until the Port Arthur massacre. They went for the simplest approach and brought in gun control. No more mass shootings since.

    I was surprised when I heard how lax NZ guns laws are, unfortunately there was always going to be outcome because of this.

    I'd hazard a guess that guns law will go the same way as other countries who have experienced these atrocities.

    Kinda makes you wonder why it takes something like this for countries to change their gun laws.

    Civilians and firearms invariably lead to this type of thing. A civilian has no business owning something that is designed to wage war.


  • #413
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    people painting new Zealand as some sort of cultural paradise goa by the sea etc, but didn't I hear yesterday that the current government was elected on changing immigration policies,turn to the right etc


  • #414
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,511 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    StinkyMunkey wrote: »
    I was surprised when I heard how lax NZ guns laws are, unfortunately there was always going to be outcome because of this.

    I'd hazard a guess that guns law will go the same way as other countries who have experienced these atrocities.

    Kinda makes you wonder why it takes something like this for countries to change their gun laws.

    Civilians and firearms invariably lead to this type of thing. A civilian has no business owning something that is designed to wage war.

    Because it wasn't a problem in NZ or Oz, most mass shootings were murder suicide in families. They both have/had low homicide rates from guns.

    They had vote in November just gone apparently, I think I read there was 19 recommendations on gun control, 7 were implemented, I imagine that will be reconsidered going forward.

    Your right though, the only reason someone in New Zealand should have an assault rifle is if the walls of Jurassic Park were breached.


  • #415
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    They'll change them now. Nobody should have access to the guns he had bar the USA they need them.


  • #416
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    I was wondering this morning if the death penalty was an option in New Zealand, would this prick-of-a-human have carried out the atrocity?
    I know that there are arguments against the death penalty, but in instances like this, it should be applicable. It would serve as as a deterrent because people like the heavily armed mass murderer in New Zealand are essentially cowards and would act differently (i.e not act at all) if they thought they would be executed for their actions.


  • #417
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    El_Bee wrote: »
    As far as Pewdiepie is concerned, he's courted and payed lip-service to the alt right ever since their inception, I don't have much sympathy for him to be honest.

    You may not have sympathy for him but using an atrocity like this in an attempt to take him down because people don't like him only continues the divide.

    The amount of ghouls online who essentially don't give a **** about what happened in NZ and are only using it for political points scoring is horrendous.


  • #418
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Checkmate19 wrote: »
    people painting new Zealand as some sort of cultural paradise goa by the sea etc, but didn't I hear yesterday that the current government was elected on changing immigration policies,turn to the right etc

    If you did hear it, it was incorrect.

    The minority government in control is a left wing alliance comprised of Labour and the Greens.


  • #419
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Some really evil comments on my Facebook newsfeed this morning . This is hardly the time. I feel a bit sick to think I agreed with the same people about some things in the past.


    This is why I deleted my FB account in January.:(


  • #420
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    El_Bee wrote: »
    As far as Pewdiepie is concerned, he's courted and payed lip-service to the alt right ever since their inception, I don't have much sympathy for him to be honest.
    That's ok, the most popular youtuber ever don't need your sympathy, nor your smears.


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  • #421
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,050 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Kivaro wrote: »
    I was wondering this morning if the death penalty was an option in New Zealand, would this prick-of-a-human have carried out the atrocity?
    I know that there are arguments against the death penalty, but in instances like this, it should be applicable. It would serve as as a deterrent because people like the heavily armed mass murderer in New Zealand are essentially cowards and would act differently (i.e not act at all) if they thought they would be executed for their actions.

    highly unlikely it would prevent such a thing, it hasnt stopped serious crimes being done in the past, it probably wont stop them now. humans are irrational beings, some highly irrational, even dangerous, some humans even struggle with uncontrollable behavior, acts are done before any thought process is complete


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