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Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

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    #1382
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,226 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    The bill passed

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47878042


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    #1383
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    mvl wrote: »
    But please don't take this out of context: my question was linked to a specific post I quoted "Ardern is the elected PM of New Zealand and she has every right, and indeed duty, to represent all of her fellow Kiwis without segregation or qualification.". It is maybe me being pedantic: being lawful resident does not equal to being Kiwi. And then, from a genuine question taken out of context can see a later poster making pejorative assumptions about what my question would mean - bit mad tbh.
    Anyway, on the PMs decision to over wear that shawl - sounds to me the cloak suits her much better.

    I didnt. You asked how many of them were citizens as if that was somehow relevant to how their PM would react. She would, and should, have reacted the same even if they were illegal immigrants.


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    #1384
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I didnt. You asked how many of them were citizens as if that was somehow relevant to how their PM would react. She would, and should, have reacted the same even if they were illegal immigrants.
    Actually I didn't include in my question anything about how she should react based on the answer - this is your (very poor) interpretation of why I may have asked about citizenship. FYI, my question was just trying to find out how many kiwis are dead in that attack, in the context included with my question (as I quoted another poster saying this "PM must represent all of her fellow Kiwis without segregation or qualification" - as there are kiwi/Maori Muslims in NZ).
    To have an idea of nationalities - some info is published here - https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/asia/new-zealand-mosque-shooting-victims/index.html
    Besides, for any other tragic event with human casualties there would be statistical reports of individual nationalities. And some individuals prefer information organized this way, instead or focusing on religious background only - unless we are so PC not allowing this type of information here.
    PS: Then on the relevance on any of my comments on this thread from the beginning: you can't assume anything about my links to NZ; but bravo for showing your nature in the post below: might be an undesired end for a thread that should have shown tolerance, compassion ...


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    #1385
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    mvl wrote: »
    Actually I didn't include in my question anything about how she should react based on the answer - this is your (very poor) interpretation of why I may have asked about citizenship. FYI, my question was just trying to find out how many kiwis are dead in that attack, in the context included with my question (as in ... this PM must represent all of her fellow Kiwis without segregation or qualification).

    To have an idea of nationalities - some info is published here - https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/asia/new-zealand-mosque-shooting-victims/index.html

    You decided to jump on part of a post "to represent all of her fellow Kiwis" to ask your irrelevant question. their nationality is irrelevant to the NZ PM and to the people of NZ. The only person who thinks it is in some way relevant is you.


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    #1386
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    He has pleaded not guilty


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    #1387
    Thrashssacre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Gael23 wrote: »
    He has pleaded not guilty

    He’s ****ed either way. He’s just doing it to drag out his time in the limelight and as per usual the media are playing ball. He’s headline news worldwide yet again.


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    #1388
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Gael23 wrote: »
    He has pleaded not guilty

    Why like....he literally live streamed it


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    #1389
    Noo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Noo


    Thrashssacre wrote: »
    He’s ****ed either way. He’s just doing it to drag out his time in the limelight and as per usual the media are playing ball. He’s headline news worldwide yet again.

    I dont know the ins and outs of the laws in nz but in the very least a not guilty plea will remove any leniency in his sentence when he is inevidently found guilty (not that there should be any leniency for this barbaric act regardless of his plea, but you just never know).


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    #1390
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Noo wrote: »
    I dont know the ins and outs of the laws in nz but in the very least a not guilty plea will remove any leniency in his sentence when he is inevidently found guilty (not that there should be any leniency for this barbaric act regardless of his plea, but you just never know).
    Life without parole in solitary confinement?


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    #1391
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I suppose when you are facing life in prison you might as well plead not guilty, you've nothing to lose anyway and theres the slim hope that the trial might collapse on a technicality. Same with Boy A at the moment, despite overwhelming blood and DNA evidence he still pled not guilty.


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    #1392
    Noo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Noo


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I suppose when you are facing life in prison you might as well plead not guilty, you've nothing to lose anyway and theres the slim hope that the trial might collapse on a technicality. Same with Boy A at the moment, despite overwhelming blood and DNA evidence he still pled not guilty.

    This is just purely my opinion, no one has to agree....but in that case I dont think boy understands the consequences/difference of a guilty or not guilty plead, no matter how much his lawyers/parents would have explained it to him, being a kid I'd imagine he'll deny any involvement not matter what evidence, like any lying child.


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    #1393
    Walter Bishop
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Why like....he literally live streamed it


    He gets some extra time in the glare of publicity if there's a trial.


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    #1394
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Walter Bishop wrote: »
    He gets some extra time in the glare of publicity if there's a trial.

    Can a judge not just order reporting restrictions?


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    #1395
    Walter Bishop
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    Probably, and his face has been blurred in any court photo I've seen so I assume that is a thing in New Zealand. Hopefully he gets as little extra coverage as possible from this however he does indeed have nothing to lose by pleading not guilty so he may as well.


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    #1396
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,268 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Brenton Tarrant trial to start May 2020.


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    #1397
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Brenton Tarrant has been sentenced to life without the possibility of release


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    #1398
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Brenton Tarrant has been sentenced to life without the possibility of release

    There wasn't really going to be any other outcome.


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    #1399
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Is there any word on where his sentence will be served? No doubt it will cost a ridiculous amount of money to the NZ taxpayer. Hopefully there's a way he can be sent back to Aussie to rot.


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    #1400
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Basil3 wrote: »
    Is there any word on where his sentence will be served? No doubt it will cost a ridiculous amount of money to the NZ taxpayer. Hopefully there's a way he can be sent back to Aussie to rot.

    Why would Oz take him? He's not their problem.


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    #1401
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Why would Oz take him? He's not their problem.

    It's not uncommon for prisoners to be transferred to their country of citizenship, AFAIK, possibly through a prisoner exchange or something.


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    #1402
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,154 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Basil3 wrote: »
    It's not uncommon for prisoners to be transferred to their country of citizenship, AFAIK, possibly through a prisoner exchange or something.

    usually when they are near the end of their sentence. that wont be for a long time.


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    #1403
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Basil3 wrote: »
    Is there any word on where his sentence will be served? No doubt it will cost a ridiculous amount of money to the NZ taxpayer. Hopefully there's a way he can be sent back to Aussie to rot.

    He'll serve it in NZ, and why shouldn't he? He commited the crime in NZ, NZ get to punish him. The monetary cost of that is negligible in the larger scheme of things really, and part of the normal cost of a functioning society.

    Countries don't deport people to serve sentences elsewhere. Occasionally a prisoner will be sent back to their own country during their sentence to serve the remainder of their time on compassionate grounds. Or they get deported after they've served their sentence. But it's entirely normal and right for a country to imprison someone themselves, regardless of their nationality.

    John Shaw, Ireland's longest serving prisoner at 44 years inside and counting, is English.


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    #1404
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »

    He'll serve it in NZ, and why shouldn't he? He commited the crime in NZ, NZ get to punish him. The monetary cost of that is negligible in the larger scheme of things really, and part of the normal cost of a functioning society.

    It's estimated he will cost the state over $3m in the next 2 years alone. It may be negligible compared to other things, but when compared to the normal cost of housing a prisoner, it's astronomical.


    Regardless, it's good to know he's been given the most extreme punishment ever handed out in NZ.


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    #1405
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Will he be in solitary confinement?
    We could be looking at 50 years of incarceration here


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    #1406
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Will he be in solitary confinement?
    We could be looking at 50 years of incarceration here

    He might need to. I assume that he will be serving his time Paremoremo and there are a few characters in there that would love to get their hands a white supremacist.


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    #1407
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I’m not sure I agree with the lock them up and throw away the key sort of justice but I suppose there are always exceptions


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    #1408
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Gael23 wrote: »
    I’m not sure I agree with the lock them up and throw away the key sort of justice but I suppose there are always exceptions

    What would your punishment be for him so?


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    #1409
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Basil3 wrote: »
    Is there any word on where his sentence will be served? No doubt it will cost a ridiculous amount of money to the NZ taxpayer. Hopefully there's a way he can be sent back to Aussie to rot.


    I'm sure there are a few Kiwis doing time in Australian prisons so I imagine it balances out.

    Funnily people who always dig up the taxpayer argument were the same ones who were vehemently opposed to Michaela Collum Connolly being returned to Ireland to serve her sentence and were licking their lips at her doing time in a tough Lima prison and the Peruvian taxpayer be damned.


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    #1410
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    I'm sure there are a few Kiwis doing time in Australian prisons so I imagine it balances out..
    thought AU is deporting lots of them tho - or no ?

    but on this, does NZ make an exception for him now (as in, does he meet the usual residency requirements where a non-national is not deported at all ?)


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