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Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

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    #272
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Mod

    Everyone. People have died. Keep that in focus for this discussion. This thread is going through the roof in terms of the 'people trying to drag things off topic' o-meter.


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    #273
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Doesn't seem like he was all there to begin with if you ask me. If you've that much time in the day to write up 79 or so pages and get upset so much and plan for going to shoot unarmed people. You don't have a life. I wonder if there are others in this with him.

    Sorry, answering my own question here..

    'Four people in total are now in custody – three men and one woman – and a number of IEDs (improvised explosive devices) have been discovered around the city. The explosive devices were attached to vehicles belonging to the detained suspects. None had detonated and were subsequently made safe by the military.'


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    #274
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,284 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Pter wrote: »
    Mod

    Everyone. People have died. Keep that in focus for this discussion. This thread is going through the roof in terms of the 'people trying to drag things off topic' o-meter.

    Bear this in mind please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #275
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Sorry, answering my own question here..

    'Four people in total are now in custody – three men and one woman – and a number of IEDs (improvised explosive devices) have been discovered around the city. The explosive devices were attached to vehicles belonging to the detained suspects. None had detonated and were subsequently made safe by the military.'

    Just up on BBC.

    A man in his late twenties was charged with murder and will appear in court on Saturday morning, police confirmed.

    Two other men and one woman were detained nearby and firearms seized, Police Commissioner Mike Bush said.

    He said one of those detained was later released, while officers were working to understand if the other two were connected.


    Two now being held along with the shooter.


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    #276
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Wonder why the shooter went on holidays to Pakistan?
    https://preview.redd.it/r3iv410hp8m21.jpg?width=295&auto=webp&9732eb3d


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    #277
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Wonder why the shooter went on holidays to Pakistan?
    https://preview.redd.it/r3iv410hp8m21.jpg?width=295&auto=webp&9732eb3d

    To experience a country with very little emigration.


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    #278
    The Moleman
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    I just watched an NZ news clip where a guy told how a young member of the Linwood mosque tackled the shooter and disarmed him.

    The gunman fled and there was others in the car. The young fella actually ran after him

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213205


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    #279
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    It's just horrific. What can you say? My deep sympathy, condolences and solidary to out to the victims and their families and friends.

    I really think we need to do more to tackle the online bubbles of hate though. There's a commonality to all of these vicious attacks of all varieties. They seem to come down to bubbles and echo chambers online that attract psychopaths who's hate gets amplified and then they manage to turn it into an attack on a large group of innocent people.

    There's a common thread between all of these extremists of all types and even the school shooters that keep cropping up in the US.

    I don't really know how it can be tackled, but the internet has definitely changed the dynamic. The same things that are tremendously positive that allow like minded individuals to easily connect, to come together in a positive way have also connected some or the nastiest, most toxic and downright evil ideologies you could possibly think of.

    I'm not in pro censorship but I do think that the likes of social media outlets using algorithms to feed people stories and so on could do a lot more to inject an element of random into it to avoid some of it but I don't think it's possible to prevent downright nasty and toxic hate seeing out similar.

    I think just sitting here wringing our hands and saying nothing can be done is going to just lead to more and more chaos.


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    #280
    PressRun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Not surprising. An attack like this has been brewing and I don't think it will be the last of its kind. Right wing extremism is well and truly through the wire at this point, and is being aided and abetted by a media that is more concerned with "balance" and the "marketplace of ideas" than they are with actually challenging hateful rhetoric. What's even scarier is the amount of people who don't seem to realise the layers to this, how deep it goes and how high. These echo chambers have been building online, unfiltered, for literally years. They're now coming into the mainstream and people still don't get it. It's all just considered normal.


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    #281
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    The Moleman wrote: »
    I just watched an NZ news clip where a guy told how a young member of the Linwood mosque tackled the shooter and disarmed him.

    The gunman fled and there was others in the car. The young fella actually ran after him

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213205

    He is a hero. The death toll could have been much more.


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    #282
    friendlyfun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    Anteayer wrote: »
    It's just horrific. What can you say? My deep sympathy, condolences and solidary to out to the victims and their families and friends.

    I really think we need to do more to tackle the online bubbles of hate though. There's a commonality to all of these vicious attacks of all varieties. They seem to come down to bubbles and echo chambers online that attract psychopaths who's hate gets amplified and then they manage to turn it into an attack on a large group of innocent people.

    There's a common thread between all of these extremists of all types and even the school shooters that keep cropping up in the US.

    I don't really know how it can be tackled, but the internet has definitely changed the dynamic. The same things that are tremendously positive that allow like minded individuals to easily connect, to come together in a positive way have also connected some or the nastiest, most toxic and downright evil ideologies you could possibly think of.

    I'm not in pro censorship but I do think that the likes of social media outlets using algorithms to feed people stories and so on could do a lot more to inject an element of random into it to avoid some of it but I don't think it's possible to prevent downright nasty and toxic hate seeing out similar.

    I think just sitting here wringing our hands and saying nothing can be done is going to just lead to more and more chaos.



    Events like this really show the pernicious side of social media. How a guy could livestream a massacre is absolutely crazy.


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    #283
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    This guy killed killed 49 muslims in a racially motivated attack after spending too much time in the alt-right bubble. This type of stuff has been happening more and more often.

    *mod - snipping out deleted post*


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    #284
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PressRun wrote: »
    Not surprising. An attack like this has been brewing and I don't think it will be the last of its kind. Right wing extremism is well and truly through the wire at this point, and is being aided and abetted by a media that is more concerned with "balance" and the "marketplace of ideas" than they are with actually challenging hateful rhetoric. What's even scarier is the amount of people who don't seem to realise the layers to this, how deep it goes and how high. These echo chambers have been building online, unfiltered, for literally years. They're now coming into the mainstream and people still don't get it. It's all just considered normal.

    I would say that your view on the media is incredibly wrong with regards providing balance.

    This is an absolutely horrific incident carried out by horrendous people in an attack based on racial/ideological beliefs.

    People on the right and the left are pretty much in unison with regards to condemning this and only a select few are using this as a point scoring exercise.


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    #285
    PressRun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭PressRun


    friendlyfun wrote: »
    Events like this really show the pernicious side of social media. It can literally be used as platform. How a guy could livestream a massacre is absolutely crazy.

    Facebook and YouTube and other sites have been asleep at the wheel for years on this. It's on those websites that all of this extremism has been building for a long time now, and it's been wilfully ignored by social media companies who have actively turned a blind eye to how the platform is used as long as they turn a profit.


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    #286
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I think with Trump, the rise of right wing parties in Europe and Brexit every nutter and extremist around the world has been given encouragment and, to them, i'd imagine a license to carry out horrible depraived acts of violence.

    It's all connected.

    RIP to all victims. :(


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    #287
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    The Moleman wrote: »
    I just watched an NZ news clip where a guy told how a young member of the Linwood mosque tackled the shooter and disarmed him.

    The gunman fled and there was others in the car. The young fella actually ran after him

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213205

    What a hero.

    It's a pity he couldn't find the trigger, but job well done. Safe to save he saved countless more lives.


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    #288
    SporadicMan
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭SporadicMan


    Alt-right echo chambers online work very similarly to the mosques with radical imams. Both of them are literally the same type of thing, just different ideologies.

    Prey on the weak, lonely people who crave a sense of belonging. Prop up enemies who can be collectively demonised.

    The big issue is both of them are left to their own devices with nobody caring until they've actually taken action. Then it happens, you look at all the details and think "How was all of this allowed to happen?"

    And they're both only going to feed each other and escalate it. How many 'on the fence' extremist Muslims are going to be pushed over the edge as a result of this?

    How many alt-righters are going to be spurred on by this, or were pushed over the edge by previous Islamist terrorist attacks?

    This isn't going away.


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    #289
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can understand the mentality of watching the video. It drives home the reality of the situation instead of it being just "another news story".

    In this day and age, events like this come and go and are replaced by the next horrific act without it resonating fully with people. You rarely hear about the Vegas shooting or the news reporter that was shot live on air anymore.

    Watching the video can sometimes make you treat it as an actual incident rather than something you read about underneath the latest Kardashian story.

    Sometime you have to witness horrific things to understand them.

    I can see why people wouldn't want to see it but I wouldn't condemn people who do watch the video.

    Watching it no, I wouldn’t criticize anyone for that although I can’t imagine any reason why anyone would want to.

    Sharing it though I take serious issue with. I think it’s disrespectful and insensitive and I have to question the mindset of anyone who does it. How would those sharing the video feel if a video of the last violent moments of a loved one’s life spread in the same manner?


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    #290
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    ...
    Note, for the record, Kiwi firearms laws are quite different from much of the world. They work off "Track the man, not the weapon". If a person is good to go, they can own pretty much what's on the permit, which can, in theory, include full-on machineguns. Firearms are generally not registered, only owners. That said, I have no idea what their position is on Aussies with permits.

    I foresee this attack leading to huge changes in NZ gun laws like the Port Athur mass shooting changed things in Australia and Dunblane and Hungerford changed things in Britain.

    It is not going to be like the US, where people just trot out stuff about the 2nd Amendment and move on to the next mass shooting/massacre.
    Anyway that is different argument for another thread.
    ebbsy wrote: »
    If this happened in India or Africa etc nobody would give a ****e though.

    Sadly there is some truth to this. When it happens in Western country, especially one with links to us, it becomes more localised to us.
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Prob had mental health issues. Psychotic break, could be drug induced. Extreme paranoia etc.

    Or just plain evil.
    An no I am not religious but I do believe some people are just plain bad.
    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Britain has very strict gun control laws, and terrorists just kill people with knives, vans and homemade bombs.

    The fundamental issue is the role of Islam in western society. Do they want to assimilate and accept our values or continue to drive a wedge between us?

    Ah FFS.
    Whilst I am no fan of islam, especially it's hardcore adherents like wahhabists, these people were minding their own business going about their daily lives.

    If the fecker(s) wanted to have a go at the bad in islam book a flight to the Middle East and go join the kurds to really fight.
    But no he just picked on normal innocent people in a sleepy backwater.

    He is no better than the ISIS wantabees who he probably used as an excuse for this attack.
    Two cheeks of the same ar**.


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    #291
    GinAndBitter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 746 ✭✭✭GinAndBitter


    Looks like these guys had some military training, judging by what I've seen in the video.


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    #292
    Tacklebox
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭Tacklebox


    I find it strange why people are getting all political about this atrocity.

    Left,right, alt whatever way it sways.

    If one's a nutter and psychotic left or right don't mean ****...

    People of all different ages going to a place of worship and ending up slaughtered is not political, racist or religiously motivated.

    There was probably a lot of different race's in that mosque under the devotion of their respective religious beliefs.

    It's driven by hatred and the lack of empathy compassion and love.

    I'm not a fan of Abrahamic religion, because I don't believe in it.
    But I know there was good people who lost their lives in NZ...

    One of the most southern mosques on the planet, where these people thought they were safe but alas their dreams of a peaceful existence gone in a moment of madness.

    So sad


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    #293
    Samuel Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭Samuel Vimes


    jmayo wrote: »
    I foresee this attack leading to huge changes in NZ gun laws like the Port Athur mass shooting changed things in Australia and Dunblane and Hungerford changed things in Britain.

    It is not going to be like the US, where people just trot out stuff about the 2nd Amendment and move on to the next mass shooting/massacre.
    Anyway that is different argument for another thread.



    Sadly there is some truth to this. When it happens in Western country, especially one with links to us, it becomes more localised to us.



    Or just plain evil.
    An no I am not religious but I do believe some people are just plain bad.



    Ah FFS.
    Whilst I am no fan of islam, especially it's hardcore adherents like wahhabists, these people were minding their own business going about their daily lives.

    If the fecker(s) wanted to have a go at the bad in islam book a flight to the Middle East and go join the kurds to really fight.
    But no he just picked on normal innocent people in a sleepy backwater.

    He is no better than the ISIS wantabees who he probably used as an excuse for this attack.
    Two cheeks of the same ar**.

    I dont always agree with you but that is as fair and balanced a comment as I have seen or heard on this atrocity.
    Well said.


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    #294
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    Reading through the manifesto, it looks like he subscribes to what is known as 'Accelerationism'

    He wants the 'right' to be censored in order to provoke them into responding.

    Seems to want guns to be banned in the US so guns owners will fight back and ultimately cause a civil war.

    Says Spyro the Dragon 3 (video game?) taught him about ethnonationalism.

    Says Fortnite trained him to be a killer.

    Says hes not a Nazi but aligns with China.

    Very mixed up so far.


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    #295
    bluetractor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭bluetractor


    Possibly mentioned before, but main shooter was Australian of Irish English and Scottish ancestry.

    The shooting was in New Zealand.

    He reasoning? - he was Anti immigrant!

    How does someone become that stupid?


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    #296
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    GinAndBitter wrote: »
    Looks like these guys had some military training, judging by what I've seen in the video.

    Looks like it,


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    #297
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    bluetractor wrote: »
    Possibly mentioned before, but main shooter was Australian of Irish English and Scottish ancestry.

    The shooting was in New Zealand.

    He reasoning? - he was Anti immigrant!

    How does someone become that stupid?

    He addresses this in the manifesto.


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    #298
    The Moleman
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    He is a hero. The death toll could have been much more.
    TallGlass wrote: »
    What a hero.

    It's a pity he couldn't find the trigger, but job well done. Safe to save he saved countless more lives.

    There has been no mention on the BBC or any news channel I've been watching.

    It might show up later in the day but any one with social media should spread the link - this young fella needs to be talked about.

    I take the opposite view regarding finding the trigger. I'm glad the young man can live his life as someone who saved and didn't take one, regardless that the other guy is scum.

    Admittedly, I would not have that view if the shooter had hurt anyone else afterward.


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    #299
    GinAndBitter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 746 ✭✭✭GinAndBitter


    The Moleman wrote: »
    There has been no mention on the BBC or any news channel I've been watching.

    It might show up later in the day but any one with social media should spread the link - this young fella needs to be talked about.

    I take the opposite view regarding finding the trigger. I'm glad the young man can live his life as someone who saved and didn't take one, regardless that the other guy is scum.

    Admittedly, I would not have that view if the shooter had hurt anyone else afterward.

    The video shows one guy attempt to disarm the shooter but he gets shot dead.


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    #300
    The Moleman
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭The Moleman


    GinAndBitter wrote: »
    Looks like these guys had some military training, judging by what I've seen in the video.

    If he had been in the military himself that would surely have been in the news by now, but a person can get that type of training in boot camps like like are used to train actors for war movies.


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    #301
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    He wants to provoke a civil war in the west, lets hope he doesn't succeed.


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