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Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #242
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Motion to request Art. 50 extension passed by a majority of 210

    Now the little matter of agreeing on what to request it for!!


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    #243
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    tuxy wrote: »
    Inquitus wrote: »
    3rd WA Vote by Weds next week.

    Nice, gives her time to get a 4th one in by the 27th with a very slight change to it after taking to the EU at the EU summit!
    Funny how a second referendum would be undemocratic but MPs can vote on the same thing multiple times.


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    #244
    upupup
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    I propose an amendment to lock the doors of the hoc now,cut the power and phones lines and do not open the doors until march 29th.


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    #245
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Gintonious wrote: »
    I thought this was only a rumour? How does she expect this to ever pass if the EU have said (time and time again), that the deal won't change?

    She said on the floor of the House that if it doesn't pass by the 20th, she'll have to seek a longer extension.


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    #246
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,912 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Gintonious wrote: »
    I thought this was only a rumour? How does she expect this to ever pass if the EU have said (time and time again), that the deal won't change?


    It is not going to change. All in the HoC know that so the only options after these votes and last nights is either vote for it, or have a extension delaying Brexit for a long time or indeed never.

    At least that is my reading off it


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    #247
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    franglan wrote: »
    When you really think about voting for the same thing for a third time while looking at the majorities of the past two votes - extraordinary times we live in.

    Well hopefully we'll never again hear any Leavers use Ireland's second votes on the revised/clarified Lisbon & Nice treaties as examples of bullying - especially if their preferred MPs vote for Mays WA next week.


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    #248
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,912 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    upupup wrote: »
    I propose an amendment to lock the doors of the hoc now,cut the power and phones lines and do not open the doors until march 29th.


    No food or drink and it might even work.



    Worked in a papal election once allegedly.


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    #249
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,306 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    charlie14 wrote: »
    It is not going to change. All in the HoC know that so the only options after these votes and last nights is either vote for it, or have a extension delaying Brexit for a long time or indeed never.

    At least that is my reading off it

    Despite them taking No Deal off the table though, thats not law though is it? Is it not just a vote for preference?


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    #250
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    upupup wrote: »
    I propose an amendment to lock the doors of the hoc now,cut the power and phones lines and do not open the doors until march 29th.
    I'm sure the Pope would loan them his special stove for the duration.


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    #251
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Despite them taking No Deal off the table though, thats not law though is it? Is it not just a vote for preference?

    It's not off the table really, it's the default if there's no agreement.


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    #252
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Inquitus wrote: »
    3rd WA Vote by Weds next week.

    I thought this was only a rumour? How does she expect this to ever pass if the EU have said (time and time again), that the deal won't change?
    She is banking on the idea that the hardline brexiteers will help pass it eventually, if the alternative is long extension with the risk of Brexit slipping away on them.
    I'm not saying it is likely but not beyond the bounds of possibility


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    #253
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,118 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    How can the DUP and ERG seriously consider voting for the WA at the third asking?

    They ridiculed Ireland for having a re-vote on Lisbon - but at least it had a number of concessions - the WA has not been altered at all.

    The MPs are just continually voting on the same deal time after time after time.

    The possibility of EU introduced checks on border to protect their market must be putting the DUP vote base into a panic - no import tariffs, but export tariffs - will result in closure for many and job losses. Looks like TMs attempt at goading the EU to put up a hard border has the additional joyous side effect of putting the DUP right in the firing line with NI voters.

    Peston seems to think the voting so far increases the chance of a no deal:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1106254285925507073

    Would that not suit the DUP and ERG instead of the WA?


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    #254
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,599 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    I don't know if today's votes solved anything at all. If May's deal doesn't pass with the next vote then the EU will not grant an extension no matter what the HoC votes for. The UK will also leave the EU without a deal if there is no extension and they have not ratified the WA. So what the HoC votes for while not voting for a deal doesn't seem to mean much in the bigger scheme of things.

    As for Labour, I fail to see how Corbyn will be able to lead if he cannot keep his MPs in line. If he has a small majority there will always be rebels that could scupper his plans. It is no wonder his followers are so big into recalls of MPs as they know they will need blind faith in Corbyn or it will unravel quickly. He as given his token backing to a second vote again but the fact that time is running out and he told his MPs to abstain, I believe, against a second vote probably means he will be happy for Brexit to happen and his support for a second referendum to only be a token gesture.


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    #255
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Gintonious wrote: »
    Despite them taking No Deal off the table though, thats not law though is it? Is it not just a vote for preference?

    It's not off the table really, it's the default if there's no agreement.

    Wl, yes and no.

    The house has expressed its will, and the Gov are obliged to respct it. They did not do it recenty and were held in contempt of Parlament.

    They do not want a repeat of that.


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    #256
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Also on Sky presenter reads out tweet along the lines of why Brexit countdown is still showing 15 days to Brexit when the HoC had voted to extend it to June.

    On a very fundamental level they just don't get it.


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    #257
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    If they extend, can they still revoke after the 29th?


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    #258
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,912 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Despite them taking No Deal off the table though, thats not law though is it? Is it not just a vote for preference?


    They could still stumble out with no deal, but with a long extension possibility of there being a long delay or no Brexit at all, she is putting pressure on both the DUP and the ERG to now support her deal.


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    #259
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Also on Sky presenter reads out tweet along the lines of why Brexit countdown is still showing 15 days to Brexit when the HoC had voted to extend it to June.

    On a very fundamental level they just don't get it.
    They have to ask for the extension, then the EU has to agree an extension, until the date remains the same.


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    #260
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    And then you see comments like this, not the UKs fault of course

    Check out @EdConwaySky’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1106264926446936064?s=09


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    #261
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Is there any projections on what a 2 year delay could do to the UK economy? I would think businesses would continue to relocation over that period of time.


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    #262
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,298 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    jester77 wrote: »
    If they extend, can they still revoke after the 29th?

    Hopefully they can


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    #263
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Wl, yes and no.

    The house has expressed its will, and the Gov are obliged to respct it. They did not do it recenty and were held in contempt of Parlament.

    They do not want a repeat of that.

    I can't see that the contempt thing made the slightest difference. The problem with an unwritten Constitution of precedents and customs is that when May flagrantly ignores them, who is going to stop her?


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    #264
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,644 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Adam Boulton apologises to SNP and Remoaners.

    Can't see the Beeb doing that.

    Never thought I'd say this but Sky FTW.

    Why what did he say ?


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    #265
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They have to ask for the extension, then the EU has to agree an extension, until the date remains the same.

    That's my point.


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    #266
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    jester77 wrote: »
    If they extend, can they still revoke after the 29th?

    I think only the European Court of Justice could give 100% accurate answer to questions like that.


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    #267
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Why what did he say ?

    He said most of the SNP abstained when they hadn't and inadvertently/jokingly used the word remoaners.


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    #268
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    jester77 wrote: »
    And then you see comments like this, not the UKs fault of course

    Check out @EdConwaySky’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1106264926446936064?s=09

    Christ :(

    The inability for a lot of the British people to analyse a situation from anywhere but their own point of view is scary.

    Are most replies to that tweet bots, or do I need to re-evaluate my view of the world?


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    #269
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    jester77 wrote: »
    If they extend, can they still revoke after the 29th?

    Yes, because they would remain EU members until the extension ends.


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    #270
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    I'm still of the honest opinion that the only way to end this farce is for the EU to basically say unless your going to a 2nd referendum or an acceptance of the WA, the UK ceases to be an EU member as of March 29th and all sectors should assume a "Hard Brexit" is what will occur on this date.

    The HoC and other's over there just don't get it: They dont have control anymore and they've only a single "OUT": Rescind A50. Either take the hit of Hard Brexit, accept the WA or Take the Political hit and end Brexit and get your house in order otherwise your being cut loose.

    This charade has gone on long enough there needs to be an end to this once and for all.


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    #271
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,089 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    In terms of any extension, I can see the EU offering it to May 22nd. Any extension beyond that shoukd be based on progress made towards any solution.


This discussion has been closed.
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