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When did Gemma O Doherty go batshyt crazy?

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Comments

  • #992
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,745 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    In a Christian society, it is conservative to be Christian. As for the non conservative straight white people who indulge in drug taking instead of Church attendance, they are the authors of their own misfortune.

    Nowadays you have people calling for the legalization of so called recreational drugs and when those who use these drugs suffer psychosis, paranoia or attempt suicide, the same people bleat on about the need for mental health services, suicide prevention quangos and so forth. What an inefficient use of money!


    Wtf?


  • #993
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    You don't have to look very hard at the history of the last 150 years or so on our own island to see how deeply damaging 'conservative values' were to society and the lives of millions of people oppressed, damaged, incarcerated, enslaved, sold, raped, or even killed because of them.

    Every good thing that modern civilized society has to offer is thanks to conservative values. Without conservative values, a society is lost. People lose all hope unless they can escape it. Without conservative values, you get the rise in drug use, prostitution and all kinds of vice.


  • #994
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,032 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Actually, every good thing that modern civilized society has to offer is thanks to enlightenment values. Thestic Theocratic societies are invariably hellish places to live.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #995
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    What's Gemmas take on the Momo hoax?


  • #996
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    mloc123 wrote: »
    What's Gemmas take on the Momo hoax?

    She is a homoskeptic, but probably not a momoskeptic.


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  • #997
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    If you watched HollyOaks 20% of the populations is LGBTQP according to it.

    Nah its just you linking paedophiles with lgbtq. Your homophobic agenda is clear.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #998
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Actually, every good thing that modern civilized society has to offer is thanks to enlightenment values. Thestic Theocratic societies are invariably hellish places to live.

    I would not agree with that at all. Not every Christian society was Authoritarian and Theocratic.. The United States is one example, they formerly had strong Christian values but certainly were not theocratic. Many injustices have occurred in the history of the US but many millions of people benifited enormously including Hispanics and African Americans.

    Also there is a good argument to be made that in the 1st - 8th centuries had Christianity spread and successfully taken hold in Africa it would be a very very different and far more modern, successful and far less hellish place than it is today.


  • #999
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    I would not agree with that at all. Not every Christian society was Authoritarian and Theocratic.. The United States is one example, they formerly had strong Christian values but certainly were not theocratic. Many injustices have occurred in the history of the US but many millions of people benifited enormously including Hispanics and African Americans.

    Also there is a good argument to be made that in the 1st - 8th centuries had Christianity spread and successfully taken hold in Africa it would be a very very different and far more modern, successful and far less hellish place than it is today.

    The US constitution establishes freedom of religion but there is no state religion of any kind. It allows a freedom of religion but constitutionally secular. Also, I'd love to see some credible sources in relation to how the Christianisation of Africa would have prevented the current state of many countries.(Most of which were colonised and ****ed over to large degrees by Christian colonial states)


  • #1000
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    batgoat wrote: »
    The US constitution establishes freedom of religion but there is no state religion of any kind. It allows a freedom of religion but constitutionally secular. Also, I'd love to see some credible sources in relation to how the Christianisation of Africa would have prevented the current state of many countries.(Most of which were colonised and ****ed over to large degrees by Christian colonial states)
    The United States was a majority Christian country until very recently I'm sure you know that. I already stated that it was not theocratic
    whis is an amalgam of church and state.

    What do you mean credible sources? How can you have credible sources about something that has not happened.
    Christianity brought education, learning, improvements in Hospitals/Hospice and medical care, infrastructure, organisation, Architecture and central planning to Europe. It carried on and maintained the ideals of Greek philosophy/Logos and elevated and gradually modernised Europe. Islam did the same in the Middle East, Africa and parts of Europe. It solidified and upheld the idea of the family unit which is crucial in a functioning society.
    The same may well have happened in Africa.
    Perhaps your hatred of religion blinds you to the benificial aspects it had.
    All religious systems have had both productive and destructive aspects.
    If Europe had remained pagan (which it was) you can bet your life there would have been no enlightenment.

    By the by Africans were colonising and f##king each other over long before Europeans arrived. That's not to excuse European (and Islamic) colonisation but the idea that Africa was some kind of conflict free environment is nothing but a fantasy.


  • #1001
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Both conservatism and liberalism have been problematic,

    Chairman Mao once described his socialist reforms as "the great leap forward." It did not end well. Food for thought for the "progressive" liberals.


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  • #1002
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,987 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    The United States was a majority Christian country until very recently I'm sure you know that. I already stated that it was not theocratic
    whis is an amalgam of church and state.

    What do you mean credible sources? How can you have credible sources about something that has not happened.
    Christianity brought education, learning, improvements in Hospitals/Hospice and medical care, infrastructure, organisation, Architecture and central planning to Europe. It carried on and maintained the ideals of Greek philosophy/Logos and elevated and gradually modernised Europe. Islam did the same in the Middle East, Africa and parts of Europe. It solidified and upheld the idea of the family unit which is crucial in a functioning society.
    The same may well have happened in Africa.
    Perhaps your hatred of religion blinds you to the benificial aspects it had.
    All religious systems have had both productive and destructive aspects.
    If Europe had remained pagan (which it was) you can bet your life there would have been no enlightenment.

    By the by Africans were colonising and f##king each other over long before Europeans arrived. That's not to excuse European (and Islamic) colonisation but the idea that Africa was some kind of conflict free environment is nothing but a fantasy.

    Are you saying the US is no longer a majority Christian country?


  • #1003
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,068 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    In a Christian society, it is conservative to be Christian. As for the non conservative straight white people who indulge in drug taking instead of Church attendance, they are the authors of their own misfortune.

    Nowadays you have people calling for the legalization of so called recreational drugs and when those who use these drugs suffer psychosis, paranoia or attempt suicide, the same people bleat on about the need for mental health services, suicide prevention quangos and so forth. What an inefficient use of money!

    that has absolute SFA to do with the post you responded to.


  • #1004
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Nowadays you have people calling for the legalization of so called recreational drugs and when those who use these drugs suffer psychosis, paranoia or attempt suicide, the same people bleat on about the need for mental health services, suicide prevention quangos and so forth. What an inefficient use of money!

    Have you got any actual workings on the money we are spending now and the money we would be spending under a regulated legal drug market? Because _without_ that you are just talking tripe straight out of the Peter Hitchens Playbook.

    The first issue you appear to ignore is that drugs being illegal has not stopped many people getting them or using them.

    The second issue you appear to ignore therefore is that people with issues around mental health and suicide are likely getting those drugs anyway so the "inefficient use of money" you are talking about is a use of money we are _already doing_ regardless of drugs being illegal or not.

    The third issue you appear to be ignoring is that an unregulated drug market means the quality of drugs and what they are "cut" with is much more likely to exacerbate existing mental issues more than a regulated and "clean" version of the drug.

    The fourth issue you appear to be ignoring is the massive amount of time, resources and money invested in trying to police pointless laws against drugs that are not all the effectual anyway.

    The fifth issue you and Peter Hitchens tend to ignore and he even outright lies about it is that few of the mental issues are at all caused by drugs. They are already existing mental issues that can at times be exacerbated by those drugs.

    So the "bleating" as you put it is yours and yours alone and as usual the only realitykeeping you are doing as per your user name - is to keep reality _out_ of the conversation.


  • #1005
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Since you have decided to ignore yet another one of my posts I will skip to this one.
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Christianity brought education, learning, improvements in Hospitals/Hospice and medical care, infrastructure, organisation, Architecture and central planning to Europe.

    Did Christianity bring those things or did people who were Christian bring those things? Because those are not in _any way_ even remotely the same thing. Unless you can show an actual causal rather than correlative link between the two - such as by showing these would not have brought those things under another religion or no religion at all - you would be talking tripe.
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    It solidified and upheld the idea of the family unit which is crucial in a functioning society.

    That is quite the assertion and for the same reasons as my paragraph above one that it would be interesting to see you support. Our society do revolve around the family unit. But that does not mean is _must_ be that way or that it is "crucial". There is no evidence to suggest that a society functioning like the one Kevin Spacey's character in K-Pax describes would not function just as well. Different - sure - but who is to say inferior or superior?

    There is also no evidence to support the superiority or the "ideal" nature of our traditional family unit. That specifically of a male and a female raising a child in our society. The evidence shows that any configuration of 2 or more parents fares just as well and in some studies even better than their "traditional" counter parts.
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Perhaps your hatred of religion blinds you to the benificial aspects it had.

    I can not be blind to something you have not attempted to show. Rather than not showing it and declaring us blind to it - maybe you could therefore tell us what the benefits have been. I know of none of them.

    That said though - even if it _had_ benefits the question more pertinent to us should be whether it _has_ benefits. Is it useful going forward or harmful? Have we any use for it now?

    If an adult had no other argument for training wheels on his bike other than they were useful to him when he was a child - you would think him seriously weird. If we have no arguments for the benefit of religion in our society other than it _was_ useful in the infancy of our species - the same should be true.


  • #1006
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Are you saying the US is no longer a majority Christian country?

    I would say that the US is following the pattern of most western countries whereby people nominally identify as Christian but in practice are irreligious or atheist.


  • #1007
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,185 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Nah its just you linking paedophiles with lgbtq. Your homophobic agenda is clear.
    Its also rubbish....I did a quick scan and count on wikipedia and its probably less than 7% of characters in Hollyoaks fall under LGBTQ..but hey as you say the agenda was clear.


  • #1008
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Christianity brought education, learning, improvements in Hospitals/Hospice and medical care, infrastructure, organisation, Architecture and central planning to Europe. It carried on and maintained the ideals of Greek philosophy/Logos and elevated and gradually modernised Europe. Islam did the same in the Middle East, Africa and parts of Europe. It solidified and upheld the idea of the family unit which is crucial in a functioning society.
    The same may well have happened in Africa.
    Perhaps your hatred of religion blinds you to the benificial aspects it had.
    All religious systems have had both productive and destructive aspects.
    If Europe had remained pagan (which it was) you can bet your life there would have been no enlightenment.
    Eh.... you do realise the Greeks were "pagans"? Ditto for the Romans, well until towards its end in the western empire. Oh and both were big on the family unit with it. The renaissance which led to the enlightenment came on the back of a renewal of interest in the pagan classical world. Never mind that the same enlightenment was a kick back against Christian Europe.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #1009
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,661 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote:
    Chairman Mao once described his socialist reforms as "the great leap forward." It did not end well. Food for thought for the "progressive" liberals.


    All ideologies have their weaknesses and failures, including socialism, but I'm glad we re moving away from our more conservative roots, thankfully it seems many younger generations want the same, there will of course be failures along the way


  • #1010
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Eh.... you do realise the Greeks were "pagans"? Ditto for the Romans, well until towards its end in the western empire. Oh and both were big on the family unit with it. The renaissance which led to the enlightenment came on the back of a renewal of interest in the pagan classical world. Never mind that the same enlightenment was a kick back against Christian Europe.

    Yes of course, and now a large proportion of Europeans are athiest.
    My point was that Christianity was part of the evolution of European society. I'm not saying we should go back. Just pointing out that Christianity was part of the process and there were many benifits to this.
    Some here are painting it as entirely negative and as one put it created a 'hellish society' this is not entirely true.
    I did not mean to claim that Christianity invented the concept of the family unit, just that it had maintained and upheld it.
    Christianity of course drew from the earlier Jewish tradition along with Greco Roman ideas.
    Perhaps its the old 'what did the Romans ever do for us' thing.
    The Roman empire is another good example, brutal, barbaric and genocidal in many ways. But it also brought organisation, coinage, technological innovation, infostrycture etc


  • #1011
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,068 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Yes of course, and now a large proportion of Europeans are athiest.
    My point was that Christianity was part of the evolution of European society. I'm not saying we should go back. Just pointing out that Christianity was part of the process and there were many benifits to this.
    Some here are painting it as entirely negative and as one put it created a 'hellish society' this is not entirely true.

    In many ways the church actually prevented progress on the things you are talking about.


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  • #1012
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    My point was that Christianity was part of the evolution of European society.

    So were war, famine and certain diseases. It is amazing therefore how vague "part of the evolution of society" is as a sentence. Many things were "part of the evolution of our society" but that begs the simple question - so the hell what?
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Just pointing out that Christianity was part of the process and there were many benifits to this.

    But were there? Or are we still making correlation-causation errors here?
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Some here are painting it as entirely negative and as one put it created a 'hellish society' this is not entirely true.

    I think I would steal from another user who posts here often and say that it is not just "entirely negative" but "overall negative". Meaning that while we might cherry pick out a positive - that is not the correct thing to do. We have to ask what cost that positive came with - and whether the same positive was, could be, or should be obtained in a less harmful way.

    For example stopping people raping is a positive. If we could do that with education - or by castrating 90% of the population - then the cost of attaining the positive is different in both cases. We would still have the positive - but overall in the latter case it would be a negative.

    So when evaluating religion as a positive or negative we should not zoom in to too granular a level and say "ooooo look at this happy slappy positive thing over here!".


  • #1013
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    In many ways the church actually prevented progress on the things you are talking about.

    Again this is true, but that does not negate the benificial aspects of it.
    It is not a black and white situation.
    Even Islam which many today consider to be backward and barbaric had a role in driving architectural innovation, Mathematics, Astronomy etc
    Islamic scholars also saved, protected and translated many philosophical and scientific works from the ancient world.


  • #1014
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So were war, famine and certain diseases. It is amazing therefore how vague "part of the evolution of society" is as a sentence. Many things were "part of the evolution of our society" but that begs the simple question - so the hell what?



    But were there? Or are we still making correlation-causation errors here?



    I think I would steal from another user who posts here often and say that it is not just "entirely negative" but "overall negative". Meaning that while we might cherry pick out a positive - that is not the correct thing to do. We have to ask what cost that positive came with - and whether the same positive was, could be, or should be obtained in a less harmful way.

    For example stopping people raping is a positive. If we could do that with education - or by castrating 90% of the population - then the cost of attaining the positive is different in both cases. We would still have the positive - but overall in the latter case it would be a negative.

    So when evaluating religion as a positive or negative we should not zoom in to too granular a level and say "ooooo look at this happy slappy positive thing over here!".

    War, Famine and Disease were a feature of every single society on earth. Do you believe otherwise?
    Maybe you should read up on the Muslim invasion of India or The several thousand year extremely brutal history of China.


  • #1015
    Auntie Semite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Auntie Semite


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So were war, famine and certain diseases. It is amazing therefore how vague "part of the evolution of society" is as a sentence. Many things were "part of the evolution of our society" but that begs the simple question - so the hell what?



    But were there? Or are we still making correlation-causation errors here?



    I think I would steal from another user who posts here often and say that it is not just "entirely negative" but "overall negative". Meaning that while we might cherry pick out a positive - that is not the correct thing to do. We have to ask what cost that positive came with - and whether the same positive was, could be, or should be obtained in a less harmful way.

    For example stopping people raping is a positive. If we could do that with education - or by castrating 90% of the population - then the cost of attaining the positive is different in both cases. We would still have the positive - but overall in the latter case it would be a negative.

    So when evaluating religion as a positive or negative we should not zoom in to too granular a level and say "ooooo look at this happy slappy positive thing over here!".

    Its not at all about making correlation-causation errors.
    It's about looking at history from a dispassionate, objective viewpoint and not from an emotional one


  • #1016
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Even Islam which many today consider to be backward and barbaric had a role in driving architectural innovation, Mathematics, Astronomy etc

    Did it though? Islam was once at the forefront of scientific advancement. Now it very much is not. And some people have traced the reason for that back to certain Islamic Scholar(s) declaring that mathematics for example - the manipulation of numbers - was the work of the devil.
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Islamic scholars also saved, protected and translated many philosophical and scientific works from the ancient world.

    Again however you are making correlation-causation errors here. They were scholars who happened to be Islamic. That does not mean Islam or religion had anything to do with it.

    There were people plucking chickens for centuries who were Christians. That does not mean Christianity promotes or brings anything to chicken plucking.

    You are making - and insisting on doing it multiple times - a leap you simply can not justify. Not only can not - you have not yet attempted to.
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    War, Famine and Disease were a feature of every single society on earth. Do you believe otherwise?

    Why would I believe otherwise when it was _my point exactly_?

    This is exactly my point. You are taking one thing - out of a long list - that has always been a feature of pretty much every society ever - and then acting like that one thing is somehow elevated in import.
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Maybe you should read up on the Muslim invasion of India or The several thousand year extremely brutal history of China.

    Maybe you should not make false assumptions about what I have or have not read - in your attempt to gloss over the fact you are dodging and ignoring my posts?


  • #1017
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,032 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Chairman Mao once described his socialist reforms as "the great leap forward."

    Yeah well self-praise is no praise.

    The bible is full of supposed quotes from Jesus saying how great he is and that he is god, doesn't make it true.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #1018
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,032 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    I would say that the US is following the pattern of most western countries whereby people nominally identify as Christian but in practice are irreligious or atheist.

    So what?
    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    Some here are painting it as entirely negative and as one put it created a 'hellish society' this is not entirely true.

    You have wilfully misrepresented what I wrote. Which was that theocratic societies (i.e. where conservative religious values rule supreme, with no moderating influence from enlightenment values) are hellish places to live. P.S. You can include Marxism, Maoism, Juche etc. as religions as they have most if not all the characteristics of religions.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #1019
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,987 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    I would say that the US is following the pattern of most western countries whereby people nominally identify as Christian but in practice are irreligious or atheist.

    So when you said
    The United States was a majority Christian country until very recently 

    What you really meant was it is your opinion?


  • #1020
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Crikey I just discovered Alex Jones. He just did a near 5 hour podcast this week with Joe Rogan this week. I am 80 minutes into it. I have never heard this much crazy talked for this sustained length of time _ever_ in my life. Many of his ideas overlap what is on this thread too. He has basically touched on everything except possibly flat earth - but there is another three and a half hours to go!

    Never heard his name before but a quick search shows he was noticed on boards.ie about 10 years ago.


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  • #1021
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,068 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Auntie Semite wrote: »
    War, Famine and Disease were a feature of every single society on earth. Do you believe otherwise?
    Maybe you should read up on the Muslim invasion of India or The several thousand year extremely brutal history of China.


    you cant claim credit for the church for all the good things that happened and then say they are not responsible for anything negative.


This discussion has been closed.
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