Lunchtime Live with Ciara Kelly [Mod warning post #1]

13-02-2019 12:32AM

daithi7 wrote: »

QED.

lol.

If you want a National Men's Council, then establish one - show there's a logical basis for it and apply for funding.

Good luck

Still enjoying the QED bit!

Sleeper12 · 13-02-2019 12:44AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

If you want a National Men's Council, then establish one - show there's a logical basis for it and apply for funding.

I did find it shocking that the show had to get a woman on from the women's council to discuss men taking paternity leave a few weeks ago. I'm not saying that we need a men's council but I was genuinely stunned that the show couldn't find someone who could speak on men's behalf on this issue. I thought & thought & the only thing I could come up with was instead of the women's council talking about men's paternity that maybe a SIPTU rep. It did show that there isn't any group that can speak on behalf of men in these issues.

13-02-2019 12:49AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I did find it shocking that the show had to get a woman on from the women's council to discuss men taking paternity leave a few weeks ago. I'm not saying that we need a men's council but I was genuinely stunned that the show couldn't find someone who could speak on men's behalf on this issue. I thought & thought & the only thing I could come up with was instead of the women's council talking about men's paternity that maybe a SIPTU rep. It did show that there isn't any group that can speak on behalf of men in these issues.

I didn't hear the show, and I see where you're coming from, but this is a major issue for women.

To my recollection, the gender pay gap is at its lowest in countries where men not only have the opportunity to avail of paternity leave, but where there is an (effective) financial penalty if they do not undertake it. I believe this operates in countries like Sweden.

Given that a large proportion of the gender pay gap seems to arise from parental responsibilities, I think this absolutely is a gender, and a women's issue. Having said that, I doubt men were excluded from commenting or contributing.

ButtersSuki · 13-02-2019 12:57AM

meeeeh wrote: »

There is a reason for that and when I was at university many arguments were made that journalism should be postgraduate course for those who already have a degree in something else. A good communicator with economics degree will find it easier to ask right questions about economy than journalist who has no knowledge of economy.

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean they're suited to all topics, or a variety of topics - which is what many of the Newstalk hosts cover on a daily basis.

Sleeper12 · 13-02-2019 01:01AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

I didn't hear the show, and I see where you're coming from, but this is a major issue for women.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not comparing mens issues with women's issues. I know there is no comparison. It just struck me as odd that for the male paternity bit on the show a few weeks ago, the only place to turn to was the women's council. The woman spent as much time talking about how women are forced into the caring role etc etc. I'm scratching my head thinking out of the shows two hours on air men had a ten minute slot and the person who is supposed to be talking about men's parental leave or why they aren't taking it, is actually talking about how tough women have it. I didn't even disagree with her facts but they had nothing to do with men's parental leave.

Tell me how · 13-02-2019 10:20AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong. I'm not comparing mens issues with women's issues. I know there is no comparison. It just struck me as odd that for the male paternity bit on the show a few weeks ago, the only place to turn to was the women's council. The woman spent as much time talking about how women are forced into the caring role etc etc. I'm scratching my head thinking out of the shows two hours on air men had a ten minute slot and the person who is supposed to be talking about men's parental leave or why they aren't taking it, is actually talking about how tough women have it. I didn't even disagree with her facts but they had nothing to do with men's parental leave.

This is the third time I have posted this on this thread. First posted it the day after the piece was on.

Tell me how wrote: »

I didn't hear this piece live so I just listened to it on podcast.

Ciara suggested to Irish Womens Council representative that she thought that maybe more men would take leave it could be swapped with maternity leave as there is little point in both parents sitting at home looking at each other at the same time. She suggested that the 6 months leave is to facilitate breastfeeding and that the vast majority of Irish women don't breast feed so they could give up some of this time but that it seems they don't want to.

It sounded like she wanted to speak to her to challenge their position of having 6 months for women and sharing some of that.

Also, I'm not sure if you heard the full piece as I think it was broken by the news but they spent as long talking about it in the second part as the first and they had 2 men callers who spoke about their experience in taking it with one of them being a stay at home dad.

Last paragraph is key in terms of saying she did not have men on.

daithi7 · 13-02-2019 01:31PM

Tell me how wrote: »

This is the third time I have posted this on this thread. First posted it the day after the piece was on.
....
Last paragraph is key in terms of saying she did not have men on.

I know isn't it just awful when people didn't hear the piece like you did?

Do you think(?) that might actually be telling you something about the piece itself !?!

Tell me how · 13-02-2019 01:36PM

daithi7 wrote: »

I know isn't it just awful when people didn't hear the piece like you did?

Do you think(?) that might actually be telling you something about the piece itself !?!

I think it's literally that people didn't hear the piece after the news and so are continuing to say that she didn't get a male opinion.

daithi7 · 13-02-2019 02:27PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I think it's literally that people didn't hear the piece after the news and so are continuing to say that she didn't get a male opinion.

Partly that maybe (i didn't hang around to listen to any more sh1te myself), but actually I think people were just generally taken aback by how the show facilitated the feminists being the chosen spokespeople for an obviously predominantly male issue!!!
(i.e. paternal leave)

It's 'Paternal Leave' and 'The National Women's Council',ffs. Here's a big clue, it's in the name!!

I mean would they ask men in studio first about labour pains ?
& then maybe get a couple of women on after the news to phone in??

It was pathetic, as are many aspects of the show tbh.

Tell me how · 13-02-2019 02:33PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Partly that maybe (i didn't hang around to listen to any more sh1te myself), but actually I think people were just generally taken aback by how the show facilitated h feminists being the spokespeople for an obviously predominantly male issue!!!

It's 'Paternal Leave' and 'The National Women's Council'.

I mean would they ask men in studio first about giving birth??

It was pathetic, as are many aspects of the show tbh.

Any wonder people are taken aback when they listen to half a topic with the fingers ready to express outrage.

Also, (as I said previously), I think she had the lady from the women's council on for the primary reason of asking would they support women giving up some of their maternity leave so it could be shared with the father.
That was a very relevant question as the concerns for many with the hear of increased allocation of time to be spent with newborns is the financial implications. Both for businesses and the individuals. That is why asking this lady that question was actually quite proactive.

daithi7 · 13-02-2019 03:26PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Any wonder people are taken aback when they listen to half a topic with the fingers ready to express outrage.
.....

Era, obviously I was referring to why others here may not have liked the piece, which they said they didn't btw but anyways, whatever....

Yeah maybe if they continue to lead pieces on issues like Paternal Leave with reaction from the National Women’s Council ( i mean ffs), on Finance with Entertainment people, on Ballet with Animal Rights people, etc, etc they may indeed appeal to an unusual market/listenership segment, full of people just like you

P.s. I mean you couldn't make it up!?

13-02-2019 03:29PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Era, obviously I was referring to why others here may not have liked the piece, which they said they didn't btw but anyways, whatever.

Yeah maybe if they continue to lead pieces on issues like Paternal Leave with reaction from the National Women’s Council ( i mean ffs), on Finance with Entertainment people, on Ballet with Animal Rights people, they can indeed appeal to an unusual market/listenership segment, full of people just like you

P.s. I mean you couldn't make it up!?

Dáithí, this forum is welcoming to people who contribute both positive and negative reviews of radio programmes, but we do ask that they might be constructive, and certainly not personal towards other posters.

Please take a week away from this thread and you'll be welcome back this day next week, hopefully with constructive comments, positive or negative

Sleeper12 · 13-02-2019 05:42PM

Tell me how wrote: »

This is the third time I have posted this on this thread. First posted it the day after the piece was on.

Last paragraph is key in terms of saying she did not have men on.

Her "expert" guest was someone from the womens council. The "expert" spouted on about how women have it so bad & are forced into the caring roll. I'm not even disagreeing with her comments but how in the name of all that's holy was she the "expert" guest on mens paternity leave? It's not that she's a woman, I don't need male voices phoning to balance it out. Having the lady on from the womens council as an "expert" on mens paternity leave is akin to having someone on from the Iona Institute as an "expert" on LGBT issues. It was a mind numbingly stupid idea to have her on as a guest for this particular spot. Rant over

Having said all of that you picked me up wrong. I wasn't trying to drag all of that up again last night. I used that as an example to show that there isn't a body or organization where the show could get a guest speaker on mens paternity leave. The closest thing I can think of would SIPTU to put a person forward. They dont have to be a man. If the womans council put a man forward to speak about mens paternity leave it would still have been the wrong decision.

Tell me how · 13-02-2019 06:19PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Her "expert" guest was someone from the womens council. The "expert" spouted on about how women have it so bad & are forced into the caring roll. I'm not even disagreeing with her comments but how in the name of all that's holy was she the "expert" guest on mens paternity leave? It's not that she's a woman, I don't need male voices phoning to balance it out. Having the lady on from the womens council as an "expert" on mens paternity leave is akin to having someone on from the Iona Institute as an "expert" on LGBT issues. It was a mind numbingly stupid idea to have her on as a guest for this particular spot. Rant over

I am being somewhat obtuse here but I don't think that the guest was introduced as an "expert" on mens paternity leave. They were introduced with "joining us to discuss this, is...". There is a difference.

At the time, I thought that the lady from the women's institute might have been a bit ticked with Ciara given the direction the conversation went in.

Sleeper12 · 13-02-2019 06:38PM

Tell me how wrote:

I am being somewhat obtuse here but I don't think that the guest was introduced as an "expert" on mens paternity leave. They were introduced with "joining us to discuss this, is...". There is a difference.

The guest in the studio is usually the "expert". You are totally correct she wasn't introduced as an "expert" but what was she there for? It was a ridiculous segment due to her stance of women had it harder than men. It wasn't a women against men issue.

I've said this several times already but I honestly believe that the production team let the show down time and again. It could have been a better segment with a different studio guest. Didn't even have to be a man. Just a person without an agenda could have been more interesting.

Faugheen · 13-02-2019 06:45PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The guest in the studio is usually the "expert". You are totally correct she wasn't introduced as an "expert" but what was she there for? It was a ridiculous segment due to her stance of women had it harder than men. It wasn't a women against men issue.

I've said this several times already but I honestly believe that the production team let the show down time and again. It could have been a better segment with a different studio guest. Didn't even have to be a man. Just a person without an agenda could have been more interesting.

By this logic then David Quinn is an expert on pretty much anything.

Tell me how · 13-02-2019 06:53PM

Faugheen wrote: »

By this logic then David Quinn is an expert on pretty much anything.

And Terry Prone. And Barbara Scully. And Bill Hughes.

I do get Sleeper12's point but if Ciara herself had introduced the guest as an expert on parental leave, I would have thought that that was inappropriate.

Being an advocate does not bestow expert status.

BBFAN · 13-02-2019 09:30PM

It has been stated many times already that 2 men came on to discuss the matter after the lady from the womens council so what is the problem? Is it that the woman spoke first?

Sleeper12 · 13-02-2019 09:40PM

BBFAN wrote:

It has been stated many times already that 2 men came on to discuss the matter after the lady from the womens council so what is the problem? Is it that the woman spoke first?

Did you hear the show?

For me It's nothing to do with how many women or men spoke. It's the content of what was said.

Getting someone (male or female) from the woman's council to talk about men's paternity leave was a ridiculous thing to do. That's all I'm saying. Bad production team imo

BBFAN · 13-02-2019 09:49PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Did you hear the show?

For me It's nothing to do with how many women or men spoke. It's the content of what was said.

Getting someone (male or female) from the woman's council to talk about men's paternity leave was a ridiculous thing to do. That's all I'm saying. Bad production team imo

Yes I did hear the show, didn't have any problem with it.

ButtersSuki · 13-02-2019 10:01PM

Today Ciara had a clinical psychologist (CP) on to discuss the impact of technology (mobile phone penetration, whats app-ing, dating apps etc.) on relationships from a cheating perspective. The CP started almost immediately that Ciara's assertion that in her intro. this was a root cause was dismissed and was likely much less a factor than Ciara was suggesting, but Ciara persisted with it. The CP had to continually go back to re-iterating that it was not as significant a factor as Ciara was suggesting, often having to wait until Ciara was finished with her rambling point before politely coming back in to once again politely disagree. Ciara cut across her several times to insist it was all down to technology, with the CP again very politely waiting until Ciara was finished before starting her polite rebuttal again. The CP was incredibly polite and patient throughout.

I honestly don't know why she/her team invite experts on the show if Ciara is just going to talk over them with her "opinion over fact" statements. She doesn't listen to her guests, and insists on giving her opinion (expressing it as fact) throughout even when presented with a differing viewpoint from an expert in their field.

Utopia Parkway · 14-02-2019 01:23AM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Today Ciara had a clinical psychologist (CP) on to discuss the impact of technology (mobile phone penetration, whats app-ing, dating apps etc.) on relationships from a cheating perspective. The CP started almost immediately that Ciara's assertion that in her intro. this was a root cause was dismissed and was likely much less a factor than Ciara was suggesting, but Ciara persisted with it. The CP had to continually go back to re-iterating that it was not as significant a factor as Ciara was suggesting, often having to wait until Ciara was finished with her rambling point before politely coming back in to once again politely disagree. Ciara cut across her several times to insist it was all down to technology, with the CP again very politely waiting until Ciara was finished before starting her polite rebuttal again. The CP was incredibly polite and patient throughout.

I honestly don't know why she/her team invite experts on the show if Ciara is just going to talk over them with her "opinion over fact" statements. She doesn't listen to her guests, and insists on giving her opinion (expressing it as fact) throughout even when presented with a differing viewpoint from an expert in their field.

This basically describes about 80% of the segments on the show. With Ciara coming across as the worst kind of know it all. Often unlistenable because of it.

Barna77 · 14-02-2019 10:54AM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I don’t agree with his views but Ciara shouted all over him, refused to let him speak without continuously interrupting him, didn’t listen to what he was saying, and finally only read out texts supporting her take on the subject. I text a very polite (genuinely) comment on alllowing the guest to speak, but it wasn’t read out - I suspect there were others. It was more like listening to an argument between a married couple than a serious interview/debate. She also cited numerous cases of planning objections being based on NIMBYism but didn’t mention Pat Kenny’s objection (of course).

Extra: as I was typing the above she read out one text from someone who disagrees with her take on it, but then identified him as a social democrat and made some comment about politicians always being against building.

It’s strange when you feel sorry for someone you disagree with after an interview with someone who has similar views to you (similar - not identical btw, on in this case, planning).

A week late, but is this on the podcast? Had a browse but couldn't find it

ButtersSuki · 14-02-2019 01:22PM

Barna77 wrote: »

A week late, but is this on the podcast? Had a browse but couldn't find it

Use the Listen Back feature, rather than the Podcast (podcasts tend to be "highlights" rather than the full show in some cases):

https://www.newstalk.com/listen-back

Go to February 6th and then Lunchtime Live , it starts from around 9:30mins in. I haven't listened back to see if's been edited, but I'd assume not.

baldshin · 14-02-2019 01:28PM

Had to laugh at the lady giving out that her 2 (adult) kids should be allowed drive unaccompanied because they need the car for work.....after one of them just failed his test!

14-02-2019 01:34PM

baldshin wrote: »

Had to laugh at the lady giving out that her 2 (adult) kids should be allowed drive unaccompanied because they need the car for work.....after one of them just failed his test!

And the other lady ringing in to tell the whole country she's driving without a licence. Oh dear.

meeeeh · 14-02-2019 01:43PM

I'm a few minutes behind. This is hilarious. And scary.

14-02-2019 02:14PM

Really sad interview with that bereaved Dad now. Very sensitively done.

whisky_galore · 14-02-2019 02:28PM

baldshin wrote: »

Had to laugh at the lady giving out that her 2 (adult) kids should be allowed drive unaccompanied because they need the car for work.....after one of them just failed his test!

Heaps of older people that never did a test in their lives on the roads. Ah but shur God love them.
Fwiw it's a well meaning law put in place that ignores the huge testing backlog and the fact that many people don't have the public transport option.

meeeeh · 14-02-2019 02:32PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Really sad interview with that bereaved Dad now. Very sensitively done.

That was hard to listen.

Lunchtime Live with Ciara Kelly [Mod warning post #1]

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