Minister for Health Simon Harris and family trapped in home by protesters.

jimmycrackcorm · 11-02-2019 12:52pm

GAA Beo wrote:

I see the latest Fine Gael recruit Rose of Tralee Maria Walsh is retweeting Ocasio Cortez and numerous socialists on twitter. Oh dear, it seems this latest Yank import has no clue what she signed up for. She is getting hammered everywhere online for joining Fine Gael. Don't think the wealthy have any idea how hated Fine Gael are by many. But then they are detached from normal people. They don't like to mix with the common folk.

The real problem is those who hate FG have no idea about actual solutions. They just like to vent out like demented demons.

In the last electiona SF were proposing to add another 3 billion into health. Apart from no idea where that money was coming from, the whole ballooning of the health budget since the nineties has shown that throwing money at it doesn't produce anything better.

gmisk · 11-02-2019 12:54pm

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

I was being faciousous, and I hope this group of unrepresentative thugs get what they deserve.

I'm all in favour of protest, its one of the few ways between elections that citizens can display disapproval but bringing it to someone's home is crossing a line IMHO.

At best it hands Harris/fg the moral high ground at worst it terrorised a new mother.

Cool, i agree with you.

I have no issue with peaceful protests at all, I worked in the department of education for a while......so I got used to them believe me.

But this action crossed a line.

optogirl · 11-02-2019 12:54pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

Cop on. If the child needed to be brought to the doctor, you can't leave the house. Simple as that. All it takes is for someone to throw something.

Their actions was scumbaggery of the highest order as far as I'm concerned.

It was a peaceful protest and the people are clearly identifiable and don't look in any way threatening to me. Again, totally disagree with them doing this but you don't need to invent a scenario where a sick baby was prevented from going to the doctor to make it seem worse than it was. There is absolutely no reason to believe that, if such a scenario had arisen, they would have been prevented from bringing the child to the doctor. Words like 'terrorised' and 'trapped' being bandied about on this thread like so many Herald headlines

SusieBlue · 11-02-2019 12:55pm

GAA Beo wrote: »

Maybe she shouldn't have married such a lowlife. Do you have sympathy for the wifes of drug dealers? I seriously doubt it. She made her bed. Anyway, all this 3 month old stuff, how are the protestors supposed to know the age of his child. It was a peaceful protest. If you can't take the heat, if he had any self respect he would resign in disgrace.

Now you're likening him to a drug dealer???

His wife and newborn daughter have no responsibility for his (debatable) short comings as minister.
It was intimidating and harassment and bang out of order. There is no justification for it.

The protesters were more than capable of finding out his address, perhaps they should have used to same skills to determine whether there might be children in the house before arriving at the door.

Would you be ok with your boss showing up to your house to intimidate your wife and child if you weren't doing your job correctly?

Wheeliebin30 · 11-02-2019 12:56pm

GAA Beo wrote: »

I rarely see the above on the Fine Gael manifesto come election time. What a shame, that sort of mindset took over.

You must have a very sad existence if people on social welfare and disability upset you so much. I often see you post similar. All I'll say buy some empathy, you never know what will come to your family. I hope you won't have to deal with what I have in my life.

And you can't be the most productive worker in the world if you are spending your Monday morning trolling those on social welfare, homeless and nurses anonymously online. All a bit childish and pathetic.

I’m self employed.

I took today off after working the last 7 days to catch up on paperwork invoices etc.

People on disability don’t bother me at all.

It’s people like you who call people scum behind keyboards yet contribute nothing to society only take take take.

I know many of your type, wasters.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-02-2019 12:59pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If he's claiming that staff need to be laid off, it's not unreasonable to ask 'which staff'?

Again. How would he know? Of course it’s totally unreasonable.

storker · 11-02-2019 12:59pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Seriously your embarrassing yourself.

As I said you have no problem collecting money from the state contributed by people who might be FG voters.

You are offering nothing to society at present.

Just calling people low life’s, scumbags or whatever else you feel hard saying behind a keyboard.

Pot, kettle, black. You're both embarrassing yourselves.

seamus · 11-02-2019 1:02pm

optogirl wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to believe that, if such a scenario had arisen, they would have been prevented from bringing the child to the doctor.

Sure. But from the perspective of those inside the house, you have a mob outside it.

It's intimidating, and unless a representative knocked on the door and said, "We're just going to stand here for a while, you're free to come and go as you please, we won't be a nuisance", then one has to assume that attempting to leave will at the very least result in a cavalcade of verbal abuse.

It's all well and good to say after the fact that, "Ah, we would have let them go to a hospital sure", but Harris and his family had no way of knowing that.

Protesting outside a politician's home, intimidating their family is really low. It's inexcusable in a peaceful democracy.

Even the guy who abused Rabbitte while he was having lunch was a scumbag, but at least it was in public and only directed at Rabbitte.

MrMusician18 · 11-02-2019 1:04pm

GAA Beo wrote: »

Life is so hard for the millionaire Harris family in their mansion in leafy Greystones, how ever will they cope with the commoners outside their door. Spare me, I have sympathy for the hundreds of thousands struggling in this country. Many on the streets last night that the Fine Gaelers consider "bums".

House looked like a regular semi-d in an estate to be honest, nothing extravagant.

The big problem with the Irish health service is that it consists of factions that divide up the health budget for their own ends rather than the needs of patients. And what these factional groups are at it's so obvious, so it's hard to fathom the public support they get.

Just look at the nurses, they claim their disputes are about patient safety, but that's a PR smokescreen that the public has bought hook, line and sinker for years. It has always been about more pie for whatever group is kicking up and never about patients. And the system we have now is the result of 40-50 years of pandering to each medical faction in turn. And every health minister that has tried reform had been stymied by these interests who always manage to get the public on-side. The only way to make it functional would be to totally reorganise it, lay off where necessary and reassign people, but this is simply not an option as the various groups would down tools and the public would immediately suffer, rather than the long slow burn suffering now.

Harris got health simply because he was young and likely to be a challenger to Varadkar in a future leadership challenge, and health always throws a usually damaging curve ball.

HappyAsLarE · 11-02-2019 1:10pm

lbc2019 wrote: »

the clerical officers? The lowest rung on the CS admin ladder? Yeah... lets blame them... :rolleyes:

My mistake, I meant executive officers.

Boggles · 11-02-2019 1:11pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Harris got health simply because he was young and likely to be a challenger to Varadkar in a future leadership challenge, and health always throws a usually damaging curve ball.

You mean Varadkar the former Minister for Health?

Ricosruffneck · 11-02-2019 1:17pm

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

My mistake, I meant executive officers.

Cough.. maybe aim a bit higher there champ.

E.Os aren't big decision makers.

E.O = Junior Management
H.E.O = mid level
AP= still mid level
PO = This is where things start to get interesting.

gmisk · 11-02-2019 1:17pm

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

My mistake, I meant executive officers.

So the 2nd lowest rank in the civil service?

In my experience the people that do the vast majority of work in the CS are COs and EOs, I think in general you should be looking at a bit higher for the issues

Snow Garden · 11-02-2019 1:18pm

seamus wrote: »

The one thing I find most frustrating about the health whingers, is that they seem to have the childish opinion that at one point health was good, and it's the current minister who's made a balls of it.

Name me a single minister for health in the last 20 years who can be said to have done a good job.

Not one. The problem isn't the ministers, the problem is the service. There are too many chiefs and not enough indians. Everyone knows it. But when you try to fix it, everyone blocks you - including the indians.

The health service needs a reformer who's not afraid to bulldoze those who oppose them. But that reformer needs the hard support of the government.

There is no party in the Dáil with the balls to take on health, no matter how much noise they make about it from the opposition benches.

Correct. No health minister will ever have the time or courage to take the problems on. Health is seen as a high profile post but it's also about political survival i.e. do something people will remember but get out quick with your credibility somewhat intact. Martin did this to perfection and the HSE managers loved him - he never rocked the boat and got kudos for the easy win smoking ban.

lawred2 · 11-02-2019 1:19pm

GAA Beo wrote: »

I rarely see the above on the Fine Gael manifesto come election time. What a shame, that sort of mindset took over.

You must have a very sad existence if people on social welfare and disability upset you so much. I often see you post similar. All I'll say buy some empathy, you never know what will come to your family. I hope you won't have to deal with what I have in my life.

And you can't be the most productive worker in the world if you are spending your Monday morning trolling those on social welfare, homeless and nurses anonymously online. All a bit childish and pathetic.

Ireland currently has statistical full employment and sectors that can't hire fast enough to meet demand.

What's holding you back?

Is it all the protests that you have to go along to?

MrMusician18 · 11-02-2019 1:19pm

Boggles wrote: »

You mean Varadkar the former Minister for Health?

Yes, and Varadkar survived that relatively unscathed however.

Not many do. Look at how many careers it has ended/held back. It's like easily the worst portfolio in Government, it's why Leo was put there by Kenny as well.

You want to put the brakes on someone, you give them health.

AndrewJRenko · 11-02-2019 1:20pm

BuzzMcdonnell wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If such a person was foolish enough to take on the job for maybe 1/10th of the salary that they are used to, they'd quickly work out that running a public service is very difficult to running a business. THey'd soon work out that getting investment in your 'business' has no connection with how efficient your business is or how many 'customers' you take on. They'd soon learn that you don't get to filter your customers by charging fees - they keep coming. They have this awful habit of not getting sick on your schedule or budget, but you still have to keep servicing them.

OK, so how many of the eHealth and digital teams should be fired then?

As many as needed so they are not overstaffed, perhaps?

Isn't it strange how those who are absolutely certain that it is overstaffed don't seem to have the slightest clue about how overstaffed it is.

AndrewJRenko · 11-02-2019 1:24pm

Ricosruffneck wrote: »

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

My mistake, I meant executive officers.

Cough.. maybe aim a bit higher there champ.

E.Os aren't big decision makers.

E.O = Junior Management
H.E.O = mid level
AP= still mid level
PO = This is where things start to get interesting.

Except that those are civil service grades, not HSE grades.

Ricosruffneck · 11-02-2019 1:26pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Except that those are civil service grades, not HSE grades.

Department of Health is civil service.

It was OP that started shifting blame to Exeutive Officers, this grade doesn't exist (as far as I know) in Public Service (HSE)

Boggles · 11-02-2019 1:28pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yes, and Varadkar survived that relatively unscathed however.

Not many do. Look at how many careers it has ended/held back. It's like easily the worst portfolio in Government, it's why Leo was put there by Kenny as well.

You want to put the brakes on someone, you give them health.

Apart from Reilly, who suffered because he was an extremely arrogant unlikable person, I can't think of many. We have had a fair few leaders of the country who at one time had the portfolio.

Kenny pushed Varadkar into social protection to "punish" him for a finish.

McMurphy · 11-02-2019 1:38pm

GAA Beo wrote: »

Maybe she shouldn't have married such a lowlife. Do you have sympathy for the wifes of drug dealers? I seriously doubt it. She made her bed. Anyway, all this 3 month old stuff, how are the protestors supposed to know the age of his child. It was a peaceful protest. If you can't take the heat, if he had any self respect he would resign in disgrace.

Ah now, that's just absolutely ridiculous.

His wife and child are in no way responsible for his shortcomings of ineptitude in his role, and comparing it to a drug dealer is beyond belief tbh.

I'd have no love for Harris or his party's political stance on lots of things, but there needs to be a separation from his public and private life.

seamus · 11-02-2019 1:40pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Stop giving the job to career politicians. Take the massive budget of the department, and try to attract a Fortune 500 CEO. Let them tear the HSE to shreds and build it back up again. It would be cheaper in the long run, and we might even get a functional health system in the end.

While this has been a common sentiment in the past, what we've seen in capitalist countries is that running everything as a business doesn't guarantee the best outcomes.

Health and education are two examples of services that get worse.

Your fortune 500 CEO is good at making profits. That is, extracting the most amount of wealth out of service users while paying your staff and your suppliers as little as possible - providing the lowest quality service that the market will bear.

That's not what you want from health. From health you want to deliver the highest quality service you can with the resources available to you.

In this regard, you want to run your health service more like a household than a business.

Which sounds fluffy and benign but in many ways can be even more cutthroat. At home if you were paying a for phone line that you never used, or the provider was crap, you'd just remove it. Job done, move on. But at the far end, good providers get rewarded with being slightly overpriced if they prove themselves useful and reliable.

Pissartist · 11-02-2019 1:40pm

I can't believe he has a child

Franz Von Peppercorn · 11-02-2019 1:42pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Isn't it strange how those who are absolutely certain that it is overstaffed don't seem to have the slightest clue about how overstaffed it is.

It’s clearly over staffed given the costs.

Snow Garden · 11-02-2019 1:42pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Isn't it strange how those who are absolutely certain that it is overstaffed don't seem to have the slightest clue about how overstaffed it is.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/the-hse-can-t-work-out-how-many-staff-it-has-1.766165

The HSE can't work out how many staff it has

Now, as you all know by now, the HSE has some difficulty with figures. It can’t figure out how much PPARS (personnel, payroll and related systems) cost, or maybe it doesn’t want us to know. The latest debacle with the insurers could cost us €50 million, according to Prof Drumm, or nothing at all according to Minister Harney. It’s the way you tell ’em.

Then there are the conflicting reports as to how many actually work in the service. There seem to be about 112,000, give or take a few thousand. I became bogged down in this particular morass when I quoted figures used by three stockbroking firms, Davy, NCB and Goodbody in a joint paper issued on April 2nd. They averred that in the HSE there were about 49,000 administrative staff and 61,000 frontline staff and that such a ratio was unsustainable.

Rebuttal was swift and the numerical waters were muddied. A Mr Paul Connors, speaking for the HSE, said the true figure was 16,000 administrators. Further modification came from the highest levels of the organisation: there were only 6,000 in admin proper and the other 10,000 were in secretarial support of the frontline.

Stay with the maths awhile. If there are indeed only 16,000 and there are 61,000 frontline troops, that leaves 40,000 souls in limbo if the overall total is correct. What do these people do? Surely it is not beyond the capacity of this expensive overstaffed monstrosity to provide a categorical breakdown of its alleged 112,000-strong workforce? Then we’d all know and these controversies could finish. That would be a small step toward transparency. Needless to say, there is not a commercial company in the land that do not know their personnel numbers and into which categories they fall. Furthermore they don’t need an army to find out.

This explains why there are eight nurses trying to cope with upwards of 100 patients in a trolleyed AE unit and worked off their feet. It explains why one tired nurse, maybe with a care assistant, tries to cope with 40 older folk in a ramshackle under-funded facility at night.

Are you a flat Earther too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Neligan

123balltv · 11-02-2019 1:43pm

Oldest looking 32 year old ever :eek:

gmisk · 11-02-2019 1:46pm

123balltv wrote: »

Oldest looking 32 year old ever :eek:

In fairness he has crohns diseased which can be a very tough - plus a bit of a tough and stressful job....not a good combo

hatrickpatrick · 11-02-2019 1:51pm

These douchebags are so similar to the Eirigi morons who deflect attention from city centre protests by blocking traffic intentionally, that I'm tempted to consider the possibility of them being planted by folks opposed to the strike, to draw attention away from it.

Call them eejits and pay them no further heed in my view. Only way to make them go away.

I do find a few statements on this kinda ironic though. Some TD said that everyone had a right to peace and quiet in their home - a member of the same Dáil which is presiding over a desperate housing shortage and doing nothing about it, and a politician who presumably calls to peoples' houses to ask for their vote.

Blockading someone's gaff like this is 100% to be opposed, but some politicians really are moronically tone deaf when it comes to unintentional irony. For a member of this Dáil to talk about a right to peace and quiet in one's home is laughable.

Pissartist · 11-02-2019 1:54pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

These douchebags are so similar to the Eirigi morons who deflect attention from city centre protests by blocking traffic intentionally, that I'm tempted to consider the possibility of them being planted by folks opposed to the strike, to draw attention away from it.

Call them eejits and pay them no further heed in my view. Only way to make them go away.

I do find a few statements on this kinda ironic though. Some TD said that everyone had a right to peace and quiet in their home - a member of the same Dáil which is presiding over a desperate housing shortage and doing nothing about it, and a politician who presumably calls to peoples' houses to ask for their vote.

Blockading someone's gaff like this is 100% to be opposed, but some politicians really are moronically tone deaf when it comes to unintentional irony. For a member of this Dáil to talk about a right to peace and quiet in one's home is laughable.

i find your signature offensive.

Huntergonzo · 11-02-2019 1:57pm

How about a protest outside the houses of all the protesters, just to protest their form of protesting, be a bitta craic if nothing else.

Minister for Health Simon Harris and family trapped in home by protesters.

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