Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Gardai cricitise paedophile hunters

Options
1…6791112…28

Comments

  • Options
    #242
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    joeguevara wrote: »
    See I know where you are coming from but I fundamentally disagree with your assertion that a 13-14 year old is fully sexually mature. And if that is your belief then I’m not going to debate further. If you think that a 13 year old is mature physically to engage in any sort of sexual conduct with a grown man then WTF!
    well in a biological sense they may well be mature, as in they can have children.


  • Options
    #243
    Jmsg
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Jmsg


    joeguevara wrote: »
    See I know where you are coming from but I fundamentally disagree with your assertion that a 13-14 year old is fully sexually mature. And if that is your belief then I’m not going to debate further. If you think that a 13 year old is mature physically to engage in any sort of sexual conduct with a grown man then WTF!

    It's not my or an opinion but a scientific fact. A 13 year old girl is on a physical level mature enough to have sex with a grown man, and in far ancient times every girl of said age did and it was no problem. Civilization is another kind of scheme altogether though, where there are socially imposed restrictions namely wedlock traditionally (though what they are today have become very confused due to massive social dissolution and disfiguration). These social restrictions placed on sex are necessary for our organisation into coherent large groups and have a most profound ingrained effect on our psyches such that if we deviate from them we may potentially suffer terrible neurosis's, the most terrible of all is the effect of sexual abuse on a child before the sexual instinct awakens in them, in such a case when it eventually does in time after the fact it will become fixated on those encounters and seem to be entirely blocked psychically from the reproductive process. Whereas if one passes through early puberty without having had sex imposed upon one, though such abuse happening subsequently can too have a very substantially damaging effect it nevertheless pails in comparison to the former.

    Another very important fact in the distinction is the intent of the abuser. It is natural to be aroused on a purely sexually base level by a girl of 13, many of whom can look to be far older. With girls before puberty on the other hand only a most minute portion of people feel sexual urges towards them (far below 1%). This is why it's so important to make a clear distinction and keep pedophilia defined as separate as it is done in all clinical settings.


  • Options
    #244
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    well in a biological sense they may well be mature, as in they can have children.

    Biologically able to conceive children is a far different argument than the assertion above that a 13 year old girl is fully physically mature to engage in any sort of sexual conduct with a grown man as to make that offense any less heinous than with a younger female.

    That debate I am not going to get involved in.


  • Options
    #245
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Jmsg wrote: »
    It's not my or an opinion but a scientific fact. A 13 year old girl is on a physical level mature enough to have sex with a grown man, and in far ancient times every girl of said age did and it was no problem. Civilization is another kind of scheme altogether though, where there are socially imposed restrictions namely wedlock traditionally (though what they are today have become very confused due to massive social dissolution and disfiguration). These social restrictions placed on sex that are necessary for our organisation into large groups and have a most profound ingrained effect on our psyches, and if we deviate from them we may potentially suffer terrible neurosis's, the most terrible of all is the effect of sexual abuse of a child before the sexual instinct awakens in them, in such a case once it does in time it will be fixated on the encounters (unconsciously assuming them to have taken place with their primary care givers) and seem to be blocked entirely from the reproductive process. Whereas if one passes through early puberty without having had sex imposed upon one, though this happening subsequently can too have a very substantially damaging effect it nevertheless pails in comparison to the former.

    Another very important fact in the distinction is the intent of the abuser. It is natural to be aroused on a purely sexually base level by a girl of 13, many of whom can look to be far older. With girls before puberty on the other hand only a most minute portion of people feel sexual urges towards them (far below 1%). This is why it's so important to make a clear distinction and keep pedophilia defined as separate as it is done in all clinical settings.

    I am not going to engage in any form of debate with any person that believes the only issue with a grown man engaging in any sexual conduct with a 13 year old girl is due to societal restrictions and not the fact that it is an utterly heinous act. What you have written is the most disturbing thing I have read on boards and I hope I never hear these words in real life.


  • Options
    #246
    Jmsg
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Jmsg


    joeguevara wrote: »
    I am not going to engage in any form of debate with any person that believes the only issue with a grown man engaging in any sexual conduct with a 13 year old girl is due to societal restrictions and not the fact that it is an utterly heinous act. What you have written is the most disturbing thing I have read on boards and I hope I never hear these words in real life.

    I thought I made a respectable case for *elevating* the reprehensibleness of pedophilia above it's current perceived norms. You’ve clearly scathed over what I’ve said and picked out what you wanted to hear or didn’t as the case may be.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #247
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Jmsg wrote: »
    I thought I made a respectable case for *elevating* the reprehensibleness of pedophilia above it's current perceived norms. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're tired and misread it.

    No. I see someone trying to explain why sexual conduct with a 13 year old as somewhat excusable. I see both as utterly disgusting. I see what was written as a poorly constructed legal defense that has failed in every court case I have been involved in. I see it as an argument that is devised in an ethics class in university with absolutely no real life connection. Tell you what, go tell your argument to a 13 year old who was assaulted by a fully grown and explain her trauma means less because society has grouped her incorrectly. I will be on the side that it’s sick if you don’t mind!


  • Options
    #248
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    I am not going to engage in any form of debate with any person that believes the only issue with a grown man engaging in any sexual conduct with a 13 year old girl is due to societal restrictions and not the fact that it is an utterly heinous act. What you have written is the most disturbing thing I have read on boards and I hope I never hear these words in real life.

    Above, he pointed out that they're not mature enough mentally. So he's not just saying it's society.

    But he's right about physical maturity. Plenty of your ancestors committed what you call heinous acts due to the fact that reproduction had to be done as soon as possible.


  • Options
    #249
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Above, he pointed out that they're not mature enough mentally. So he's not just saying it's society.

    But he's right about physical maturity. Plenty of your ancestors committed what you call heinous acts due to the fact that reproduction had to be done as soon as possible.

    Again biological maturity is a million miles from physical maturity. What the argument is is that sexually assaulting a 13 year old is less heinous than a 10 year old. Is that the argument? Really, is it?


  • Options
    #250
    Jmsg
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Jmsg


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Again biological maturity is a million miles from physical maturity. What the argument is is that sexually assaulting a 13 year old is less heinous than a 10 year old. Is that the argument? Really, is it?

    Yes, I am arguing both in respect the intent on the part of the aggressor and the impact on the victim. So following your logic you should think it’s disgraceful to judge homocide as less heinous than genecide?


  • Options
    #251
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Again biological maturity is a million miles from physical maturity. What the argument is is that sexually assaulting a 13 year old is less heinous than a 10 year old. Is that the argument? Really, is it?

    Yes, it's blindingly obvious. I teach young teens and the difference between 10 and 13 is bigger than the difference between 13 and 18.

    So both are awful. But one is much worse. Let's go further with your logic. How low an age do you have to go before you'd say 'Yes, that's worse than 13."?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #252
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Jmsg wrote: »
    Yes, I am arguing both in respect the intent on the part of the aggressor and the impact on the victim. So following your logic you should think it’s disgraceful to judge genecide as more heinous than homicide?

    No offense of homicide in Ireland but anyway someone’s murder is no less worthy because it’s done by itself. Yes thousands seem worse and is usually because of a breakdown in society but each life is the same value. Pretty weird argument. I would judge a sexual assault of a 13 year old as more heinous as a sexual assault on a 30 year old. Each is absolutely disgusting, vile and heinous but an assault on a child, and yes 13 years in my eyes is a child, is more heinous.

    Your argument about genocide versus murder is about numbers. But using that analogy I think murdering a child is more reprehensible than murdering an adult. But both are disgusting.


  • Options
    #253
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Again biological maturity is a million miles from physical maturity.
    what? That's literally what biological maturity is.

    Biological maturity is not mental, emotional or social maturity but it is physical maturity.


  • Options
    #254
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, it's blindingly obvious. I teach young teens and the difference between 10 and 13 is bigger than the difference between 13 and 18.

    So both are awful. But one is much worse. Let's go further with your logic. How low an age do you have to go before you'd say 'Yes, that's worse than 13."?

    Any age below the age of our consent. Sorry if I believe assaulting a minor is worse than an adult. And I believe assaulting an adult is utterly heinous. So i


  • Options
    #255
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    what? That's literally what biological maturity is.

    Biological maturity is not mental, emotional or social maturity but it is physical maturity.

    In my eyes biological maturity is being able to conceive. That does not mean a 13 year old is physically mature to have sex with a grown man. Am I really trying to convince people that a 13 year old is not physically mature to engage in any sort of sexual activity with lets say a 30 year old man. Is this what is actually happening here? If that’s the case I have lost faith in society.


  • Options
    #256
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    joeguevara wrote: »
    In my eyes biological maturity is being able to conceive. That does not mean a 13 year old is physically mature to have sex with a grown man. Am I really trying to convince people that a 13 year old is not physically mature to engage in any sort of sexual activity with lets say a 30 year old man. Is this what is actually happening here? If that’s the case I have lost faith in society.
    lost faith in society? but our society does not condone a 30 year old man having sex with a 13 year old, in fact our society jails such a man and places him on a register.

    Your contention that a 13 year is not physically mature enough to have sex with a grown man is demonstrably false. It happened for all of human history up until about 200 years ago and was fairly normal.


  • Options
    #257
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Any age below the age of our consent. Sorry if I believe assaulting a minor is worse than an adult. And I believe assaulting an adult is utterly heinous. So i

    Confusing post. Are you saying that all ages under 18 are equally heinous?

    This is such a strange conversation.


  • Options
    #258
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    lost faith in society? but our society does not condone a 30 year old man having sex with a 13 year old, in fact our society jails such a man and places him on a register.

    Your contention that a 13 year is not physically mature enough to have sex with a grown man is demonstrably false. It happened for all of human history up until about 200 years ago and was fairly normal.

    The reason for this tangent is the assertion that the vigilantes are pursuing people who wish to engage in statutory rape (I.e. with post pubescent) rather than paedophiles and they argued that it was less of a crime. My argument was that most of the people that were pursued actively engaged with decoys who purported to be 12-14 years old. I argued that it was as heinous as someone who pursued someone younger.

    My belief, is that both were as heinous as each other. An assault on a 13 year old and a 9 year old. I am disgusted and horrified that people would try and argue that assaulting a 13 year old is only an issue because society determines it to be. More of an issue is that posters tried to put on an age scale the level of heinousness which disregards completely the age of consent.

    I still believe there is a huge difference between biological maturity and physical maturity and won’t go into the physical reasons why. I am horrified if people think a 13 year old girl is physically able to have sex and the only reason someone would be convicted is due to her emotional maturity. Is this for fcuking real?


  • Options
    #259
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Confusing post. Are you saying that all ages under 18 are equally heinous?

    This is such a strange conversation.

    Age of consent in Ireland is 17 not 18. And yes I am saying that any man having sex with a person under the age of consent is heinous. I am sorry if you can’t understand why I think that underage sex is heinous.

    Now before you argue about a scenario of an17/year old guy with a girl who is 16 years and 364 days, then the purpose of this whole debate is the people that these gangs snare. All late 30s and above. That is what my argument is about. Rather than a law school ethics scenario.


  • Options
    #260
    Dien
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Dien


    Credit Checker Moose wrote: »
    Why don't you have seat right there?



    Gardaí are majorly upset with online paedophile hunters.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-express-major-concern-over-paedophile-hunting-groups-1.3783959


    I wonder what the angle of the Gardaí is? Are they afraid of being exposed as doing f all about nonces online?

    They're not upset at all. They just can't publicly say they are delighted that well-meaning, law abiding citizens (for the most part) are trawling public domains and putting the spotlight on the scum of the earth. Carry on I say, carry on!


  • Options
    #261
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Rory28 wrote: »
    You are a hypocrite. How many times have you lambasted Islamic countries for their barbaric penalties? I have done the same but I can still make the distinction that doing the same to pedos is equally barbaric.

    Killing someone for having a different sky god is not the same as killing a child rapist.

    It's the very same as the Ísis mobs killing some young woman for adultery, or being gay. We have a way to deal with criminals if you want to opt out of that system then you join the criminals.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #262
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Dien wrote: »
    They're not upset at all. They just can't publicly say they are delighted that well-meaning, law abiding citizens (for the most part) are trawling public domains and putting the spotlight on the scum of the earth. Carry on I say, carry on!

    In Ireland, as opposed to England and Northern Ireland where a person is named in a sexual assault case prior to them being found guilty may cause the case against them being thrown out before a trial because they cannot have a fair trial. As an example it was procedurally acceptable for the plaintiffs to be named in the ulster rugby rape trial. However if. It was being tried in the south we would never ha e known their names. That is the issue with these Facebook gangs publicizing them on Facebook love. The Gardai are saying that it could mean that the DPP cannot bring them to trial. That is the whole issue.


  • Options
    #263
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    I am sorry if you can’t understand why I think that underage sex is heinous.

    Wtf is wrong with you? Well at least now I'm aware of the mental acuity of the person I'm apparently arguing with. I hope for your sake you're drunk.


  • Options
    #264
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wtf is wrong with you? Well at least now I'm aware of the mental acuity of the person I'm apparently arguing with. I hope for your sake you're drunk.

    Well firstly not an argument. Secondly not drunk as I have given up alcohol. Thirdly I still believe my thesis. Sorry if my mental ‘acuity’ (sic) isn’t up to your standards.


  • Options
    #265
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Well firstly not an argument. Secondly not drunk as I have given up alcohol. Thirdly I still believe my thesis. Sorry if my mental ‘acuity’ (sic) isn’t up to your standards.

    Apology accepted.

    Anyways, you'll find you're alone in your assertion that raping a 16-year-old is equally heinous to raping a 5-year-old. I certainly have no interest in continuing this, much like you don't.


  • Options
    #266
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Apology accepted.

    Anyways, you'll find you're alone in your assertion that raping a 16-year-old is equally heinous to raping a 5-year-old. I certainly have no interest in continuing this, much like you don't.

    I never apologized seeing as I don’t know what ‘acuity’ is. I note you used the word rape, so is there degrees of rape which you find acceptable?


  • Options
    #267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    I never apologized seeing as I don’t know what ‘acuity’ is. I note you used the word rape, so is there degrees of rape which you find acceptable?

    No? Why on Earth would you ask such an outlandish and stupid question? :confused:


  • Options
    #268
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Again biological maturity is a million miles from physical maturity. What the argument is is that sexually assaulting a 13 year old is less heinous than a 10 year old. Is that the argument? Really, is it?

    Biological = physical in this case!!!


  • Options
    #269
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No? Why on Earth would you ask such an outlandish and stupid question? :confused:

    Well seeing as my argument is that there is no difference and you are arguing there is.


  • Options
    #270
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    Biological = physical in this case!!!

    Biological is conception. My belief is a 13 year old girl is not physically sexually mature to have sex with a fully grown man. The argument in this thread is a 13 year old girl has reached full sexual maturity. I disagree with that assertion.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #271
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Well seeing as my argument is that there is no difference and you are arguing there is.

    And what sort of mad mental leap did you have to make to arrive at asking me if I find any rape acceptable?

    As to you saying all rape is equal, we can disagree, as would any rape victim or sane person, since you know, rape can literally kill a child in its violence.


Advertisement