M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Chris_5339762

Guys looking at it I think the "new" version of the Coolagh junction is an overpass, not a flat junction.

Kermit.de.frog

Looks at grade to me.

This won't be a "ring road" for long as the city expands. It is very short sighted not to provide adequate capacity for extra lanes.

Aontachtoir

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Guys looking at it I think the "new" version of the Coolagh junction is an overpass, not a flat junction.

Agreed. Don't understand why people think it's a flat junction.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Looks at grade to me.

Get a better monitor, it is clearly an overpass.

Additionally there is a turn lane which would no longer be allowed on an at-grade junction under current design standards anyway!

D.L.R.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

When you say 3 lane motorway, do you really mean 3 lane motorway or 2 lane motorway with an auxiliary lane, a la most of the M50?

M50 is 3+A

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

Get a better monitor, it is clearly an overpass.

Looks at grade to me.

Prove it's not at grade. Give me an image that proves it.

This is the Father Ted part of Ireland where they allow roundabouts as motorway to motorway interchanges.

I assure you it is at grade.

Limerick74

From EIAR Section 5.6
“The grade separated junction at the eastern terminus of the N6 at Coolagh provides an efficient partial free-flow transfer of traffic from the existing N6 to the proposed road development. “

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Looks at grade to me.

Prove it's not at grade. Give me an image that proves it.

This is the Father Ted part of Ireland where they allow roundabouts as motorway to motorway interchanges.

I assure you it is at grade.

Kermit.de.frog

Again it looks at grade.

Someone needs to give an image of the junction that proves otherwise.

Limerick74

The Junction marked on the attached map is at grade and signalised but this is not on the mainline. The eastern terminus for the M6 is grade separated with a signalised Junction at the end of the slips.

Limerick74

Limerick74 wrote: »

The Junction marked on the attached map is at grade and signalised but this is not on the mainline. The eastern terminus for the M6 is grade separated with a signalised Junction at the end of the slips.

Section 5.6 describes this.
“The grade separated junction at the eastern terminus of the N6 at Coolagh provides an efficient partial free-flow transfer of traffic from the existing N6 to the proposed road development. Traffic destined for the eastern part of the city diverges from the existing N6 to an at-grade junction in the vicinity of the existing N6 Coolagh Roundabout. Clear signage at this signalised junction, together with appropriate gantry signage in advance of the split for the proposed road development will enable drivers to make the appropriate choice to arrive at their destination.”

Kermit.de.frog

I win.

I expect, although won't receive, an apology or acknowledgement from L1011.

Stop with the nonsense defending substandard roads.

monument

L1011 wrote: »

The "ring road" runs within a few hundred metres of the city centre and doesn't have its own bridge over the Corrib; instead using the pre-existing sole modern crossing.

A further Corrib crossing is required in any proposal, even a heavily public transport based one. There is no way to provide that without a project of similar scale.

It’s 1km from Eyre Square... how are you getting “a few hundred metres“?

JCX BXC

monument wrote: »

It’s 1km from Eyre Square... how are you getting “a few hundred metres“?

Wow, so far! How far is Limerick from the M7/M18?

monument

JCX BXC wrote: »

Wow, so far! How far is Limerick from the M7/M18?

What’s the requirement?

Should it be built 8-9km+ like the M50? Over the lake or bay maybe? 😛

L1011

monument wrote: »

It’s 1km from Eyre Square... how are you getting “a few hundred metres“?

Its less than 800m from Eyre Square. Google Maps measures driving distance, not actual distance, remember that.

It is effectively the equivalent of the Circular roads in Dublin, not a ring road.

Reuben1210

L1011 wrote: »

Its less than 800m from Eyre Square. Google Maps measures driving distance, not actual distance, remember that.

It is effectively the equivalent of the Circular roads in Dublin, not a ring road.

Just checked it there - It's about 815m at it's shortest point as the crow flies.

monument

L1011 wrote: »

Its less than 800m from Eyre Square. Google Maps measures driving distance, not actual distance, remember that.

It is effectively the equivalent of the Circular roads in Dublin, not a ring road.

Sorry, but a road with lanes in each direction, with cycle paths footpaths, with no bus lanes, little or no frontage, massive distances between pedestrians crossing, relatively few junctions, motorists often clocked at 80-100km/h is nothing like the the Circular roads in Dublin.

You’re thinking location defines function when it doesn’t.

The Eastern Bypass (which, yes, I know I disagree with) is planned to be around just 2km from O’Connell Bridge but it’s plamned location alone would not kill its planned function.

I’m just after scanning around looking at smaller cities and plenty (some of which I’ve heard of before) have bypasses close to their centre and loads of cities with little beyond them don’t have massive grade segregated roads as ring roads... in your mind, what’s the distance required and why is it that?

For a fraction of the bypass cost you could make the current ring road function like a ring road, while at the same time enabling a shift in Galway to sustainable transport and higher density housing.

But we’re set for: All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.

L1011

Location and form - the Eastern Bypass in Dublin would be fully grade seperated; the existing 'ring road' is an at-grade distributor system for the city centre, just as the Circular roads are.

There is absolutely no improvement that can be done without a new Corrib crossing. I know that even 999/1000ths is a 'fraction' but the cost of delivering a new Corrib crossing and access roads along with other needed bits is going to be such a significant % of the total project cost that I wouldn't use fraction to describe it. And you'd end up with a sub-standard result for not huge savings.

monument

L1011 wrote: »

Location and form - the Eastern Bypass in Dublin would be fully grade seperated; the existing 'ring road' is an at-grade distributor system for the city centre, just as the Circular roads are.

There is absolutely no improvement that can be done without a new Corrib crossing. I know that even 999/1000ths is a 'fraction' but the cost of delivering a new Corrib crossing and access roads along with other needed bits is going to be such a significant % of the total project cost that I wouldn't use fraction to describe it. And you'd end up with a sub-standard result for not huge savings.

And form? That’s bonkers... next thing you’ll be saying black is white...

I’m going to set the other issues aside first and fully debunk the idea the circular roads / orbital route in Dublin is comparable to the N6 in Galway:


Junctions:

Galway: 10 or so junctions in 8km, mostly with turning lanes or extra capacity, slips etc, few private access points.

Dublin: Well over a 100 junctions (got board of counting them) in around 13km, maybe 50 or more different sets of traffic lights at a mix of larger junctions and independent pedestrian crossings.


Lanes:

Galway: continuous 2 general traffic lanes in each direction plus turning lanes

Dublin: mostly 1 general traffic lane, with no turning lanes in many places


Potential segregate further:

Galway: Ample potential with relatively little property take, especially if one or two junction closures were acceptable.

Dublin: would require massive property take in a mix of high density area.


Parking / loading

Galway: none allowed, and parking is rare enough

Dublin: mix of perpendicular parking and parallel parking bays, loading bays, bus lanes that revert to parking out of hours, and a ton of illegal parking and loading in different spots.


Frontages:

Galway: Little frontages straight onto the road.

Dublin: housing, shops, etc straight onto the road.


Cycling provision:

Galway: Poor junction treatment but little enough issue with space and relatively a lot of potential to fully segregate (ie grade segregation) routes.

Dublin: narrow, mostly dashed cycle lanes, non-continuous with loads of missing sections and pinch points etc.

L1011

It's still a non grade separated distributor road very close to the city centre and without any independent crossing of its river. You've debunked nothing.

How do you propose providing a new Corrib crossing for your "fraction" of the cost? You've avoided answering that.

monument

L1011 wrote: »

It's still a non grade separated distributor road very close to the city centre and without any independent crossing of its river. You've debunked nothing.

I’ve clearly debunked your claim that the N6 within Galway city is anyway similar to the Circular roads route in Dublin.

L1011 wrote: »

How do you propose providing a new Corrib crossing for your "fraction" of the cost? You've avoided answering that.

Look back at my comments — I never said a new crossing at a fraction of the cost. So, I have not avoided anything.

L1011

You really have an odd definition of debunked

You said you could make the existing ring road function as a ring road for a fraction of the price. That is not possible without a new Corrib crossing.

veryangryman

Am i the only one who see's this concept of "winning" tiresome.

Ruhanna

L1011 wrote: »

You really have an odd definition of debunked

You said you could make the existing ring road function as a ring road for a fraction of the price. That is not possible without a new Corrib crossing.

Are you still claiming that the proposed new road and bridge across the Corrib are needed purely as a "bypass" and not as a relief road, and that the ring road will not reduce traffic in the city centre?

L1011

Ruhanna wrote: »

Are you still claiming that the proposed new road and bridge across the Corrib are needed purely as a "bypass" and not as a relief road, and that the ring road will not reduce traffic in the city centre?

Your question makes no sense in English

Ruhanna

Do you believe that the proposed new road plan as submitted to Bord Pleanala is purely a bypass of Galway City for motorists who do not need to be in the city at all?

In other words, will the vast bulk of traffic on such a road be originating outside the city and heading to destinations outside the city (ie bypassing the city entirely)?

Or do you think that it is in fact a relief road or ring road on which the majority of traffic will be originating inside (or outside) the city and heading to destinations inside the city?

The former is a true bypass. The latter should be called something else, eg a ring road, relief road or some such.

Were you not always of the opinion that the proposed road was purely a bypass, ie for traffic with both origin and destination outside of Galway City?

Does that clarify?

Ruhanna

Sam Russell wrote: »

The current M6 is basically empty from Athlone to Galway for most of the time. It is busy at commute times near the roundabout at its end in Galway, but other than that it is not busy. The same goes for the M17 and M18.

Interesting.

What is the design capacity of the M6 (Athlone to Galway) versus actual use? The M17 obviously gets very little traffic compared to its actual potential capacity.

And if the M6 is basically empty most of the time, where does most of the traffic converging on Galway from the east side every morning come from? Mostly local roads and county towns such as Barna, Oughterard, Moycullen, Oranmore, Headford and Tuam?

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Because there is only one modern bridge (2x2 lanes) over the Corrib and this is constant gridlock, the alternative are 3 medieval bridges in city center which are also in constant gridlock

Its impossible to get from one side of town to other, its be faster to drive to Athlone in some cases, buses get stuck in same traffic as there is no room for bus lanes on most roads

Building a bypass would allow traffic to stay out of city

Which can then be pedestrianised further and/or narrow streets replaced by bus+cycle only lanes.

The alternatives are basically knocking down huge chunks of the city to widen streets which wont be ever accepted

I can not understand the dogmatic lack of understanding that by taking cars out of city that dont need to be there, that opens up room for all sorts of pedestranization and bus lane plans, without demolishing hundreds of homes.

The roads you mention are not in "constant gridlock". There is no road anywhere in the city in a state of "constant gridlock".

If the roads you have in mind are wide enough to carry increasing amounts of car traffic and car parking over many decades, whether gridlocked or not, why would large scale demolition be needed to accommodate buses, bikes and pedestrians, all of whom take up far less room than cars?

It doesn't make sense: a car with only the driver in it takes up far more room than a person walking or cycling. If thousands of such cars are already on the roads of the city without anything being demolished, why would demolition suddenly be needed if you switched lots of people from the space-wasting cars to space-saving buses and bikes?

Finally, if as you suggest a new ring road would take drivers out of the city and make space for bus and bike lanes, who will travel on the buses and cycle the bikes?

L1011

Ruhanna wrote: »

Do you believe that the proposed new road plan as submitted to Bord Pleanala is purely a bypass of Galway City for motorists who do not need to be in the city at all?

In other words, will the vast bulk of traffic on such a road be originating outside the city and heading to destinations outside the city (ie bypassing the city entirely)?

Or do you think that it is in fact a relief road or ring road on which the majority of traffic will be originating inside (or outside) the city and heading to destinations inside the city?

The former is a true bypass. The latter should be called something else, eg a ring road, relief road or some such.

Were you not always of the opinion that the proposed road was purely a bypass, ie for traffic with both origin and destination outside of Galway City?

Does that clarify?

I see no need for such a detailed and wordy post over such a completely irrelevant bit of semantics

The roads purpose does not come from its name.

Carol25

Just read a post on here claiming that the current M6 between Athlone and Galway is ‘empty’. As someone who commuted from Galway City to Ballinasloe via the old road for years, and then the Motorway, this is absolutely false. It is a busy and well used motorway. It was also badly needed and was for years before it was built. One would wonder what the agenda is of the people on here opposing a vital piece of infrastructure for a city that is in constant gridlock and failing to meet its potential because of this. Top of the list: New Bridge Needed, it has been for years. Wake up.

marno21

Carol25 wrote: »

Just read a post on here claiming that the current M6 between Athlone and Galway is ‘empty’. As someone who commuted from Galway City to Ballinasloe via the old road for years, and then the Motorway, this is absolutely false. It is a busy and well used motorway. It was also badly needed and was for years before it was built. One would wonder what the agenda is of the people on here opposing a vital piece of infrastructure for a city that is in constant gridlock and failing to meet its potential because of this. Top of the list: New Bridge Needed, it has been for years. Wake up.

Indeed. The M6 at Ballinasloe is carrying almost 16000 vehicles daily with a year on year increase of 11%. The M6 along here is totally justified.