What if a forced privatization happened

dxhound2005 · 31-01-2019 01:22AM

There is no evidence that the bad couriers are being weeded out. This is the first post in a 65 page thread about one of them. It is from October 2013.

iparcel... the stupidest courier
I ordered some stuff from amazon Friday 2 weeks ago, they normally use an post which i have never had any issues with but for some reason they used "i-parcel" this time, this company is an absolute joke.

I have a mobile number included with my amazon delivery's that is always printed on the parcel, no phone calls from them. I went on there website... no number to contact only an american line that doesnt let you speak with someone directly except an answering machine.

I emailed them 2 days ago and still no reply. I looked up the tracking of the parcel and it said "delivery attempted " for friday last week. I didnt get any calls and there was someone at home all day last friday.

What the hell am i supposed to do now? ill be writing an email to amazon about this service anyway

And this is the latest post from a week ago.

Another wonderful experience with i-parcel and Fastway to report. The delivery man knocked the door and I immediately ran to open it. I took about five seconds to reach the door, by which point I could see he'd turned around to leave, having dropped the parcel behind a flowerpot.

Roger Hassenforder · 31-01-2019 01:23AM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I’d imagine earning more than I’m earning now. Just for paying his union fees on time every week.

Ah
The nub of it

Flyingsnowball · 31-01-2019 01:36AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Pick a Dept.

Lets say Nurses, its topical, surely it was on your mind when you created the post.

Do you just clear out the nurses?
What about the administrative staff? Other staff like doctors and radiographers. Outsource the lab support (cervical cancer scandal anyone?). Where do you stop? Privatise the entire health service? How and how much will service users pay?

Theres dead weight in both public and private sector. BTW. im not entirely against privatization!

You can’t just privatize the whole health sector in one go. Obviously piece by piece.
But say they put all the useless staff in one ward in Beaumont. Then sacked them all and paid a private company what that ward costs to run and gave them standards to adhere to with financial penalties.

The private company then advertised these jobs at 50 cent more an hour and the media got behind it with a getting rid of the deadweight factor.
Are you saying the private company wouldn’t perform better?

Say the union striked.

Say the government sacked another ward full of staff and privatized that and said they are going to do the same next week and every week until people got back in their box and put a 600 per cent tax on union fees.

Long term the average joe would benefit if he survived the first few weeks.

Flyingsnowball · 31-01-2019 01:39AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ah
The nub of it

I should be ashamed that I don’t think it’s right that a postman earns more than me from the tax pot I pay into to service the state?

A job for life no matter what?
Pension?

If I get let go tomorrow jobbridge will be hassling me with more tax payers money?

The nub of it indeed.

Never mind the lads sleeping on streets and mattresses in shared room with drug adicts smoking gear in the bed beside you. Nah give the tax money to the postman.

Atoms for Peace · 31-01-2019 01:48AM

I watched a documentary about what happened when the Detroit police was outsourced to an evil corporation.

dxhound2005 · 31-01-2019 01:49AM

Say you limited the wages of the top brass in the private sector to what is paid in the public sector. That would free up a whole load of money to pay their workers a bit extra.

The average basic chief executive pay of the ISEQ companies was €786,000 in 2016 compared to €701,000 in 2015. This was well above the basic pay of the London-listed bosses, which was €568,000.

When bonuses are taken into account, the average total pay in 2016 for the CEOs of the 27 listed companies was €2.1 million compared to €2.08 million the year before, a slight increase of 1%.

Twenty Grand · 31-01-2019 01:49AM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I should be ashamed that I don’t think it’s right that a postman earns more than me from the tax pot I pay into to service the state?

A job for life no matter what?
Pension?

If I get let go tomorrow jobbridge will be hassling me with more tax payers money?

The nub of it indeed.

Never mind the lads sleeping on streets and mattresses in shared room with drug adicts smoking gear in the bed beside you. Nah give the tax money to the postman.

So you think you should earn more than public servant because you pay tax. Sure...

From the nurses thread:

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

But I’m earning less this year than I did last year because my taxes have gone up. My taxes pay nurses wages. They are getting a pay rise. They earn more than me and I can garantee you I go home more tired than 90 per cent of them each day.
If all the people in my trade headed off to aus there would be outbreaks of all sorts of diseases.

Nobody cares about us. Bus drivers will be next up. Then gaurds etc etc. Same every year.

Don’t worry they can just raise my taxes.

I think bitterness is the real nub of it.
Youre not subtle anyways :rolleyes:

buried · 31-01-2019 01:57AM

Yeah man just Privatize everything just like Thatcher did over in the UK back in the 80's. Really makes the whole place such a better total f**king community barren, Grim, Grey $hithole. Then, when the people start realising just what a f**king Grim Grey $hithole it has become from their own governments policies of privatization and share holder stock market Cocksucking, sure just blame the dastardly EU.

beauf · 31-01-2019 02:13AM

noodler wrote: »

The numbers employed in the public sector are above pre crisis rates.

So not really largely done at all.

There is demand due to population growth.

You reckon we should increase backlogs and have less staff...

https://www.thejournal.ie/passport-applications-staff-3928697-Mar2018/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/outpatient-waiting-lists-at-record-high-again-1.3700508

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/population-growth-is-highest-in-nine-years-36179997.html

end of the road · 31-01-2019 02:20AM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

You can’t just privatize the whole health sector in one go. Obviously piece by piece.
But say they put all the useless staff in one ward in Beaumont. Then sacked them all and paid a private company what that ward costs to run and gave them standards to adhere to with financial penalties.

The private company then advertised these jobs at 50 cent more an hour and the media got behind it with a getting rid of the deadweight factor.
Are you saying the private company wouldn’t perform better?

Say the union striked.

Say the government sacked another ward full of staff and privatized that and said they are going to do the same next week and every week until people got back in their box and put a 600 per cent tax on union fees.

Long term the average joe would benefit if he survived the first few weeks.

not when his taxes will quite possibly have to hugely increase to pay for it because we are now dealing with a profit making company who has to answer to shareholders and who will not tolerate the up and down nature of ps funding.

end of the road · 31-01-2019 02:35AM

stimpson wrote: »

It give flexibility though. A friends husband worked as an IT contractor in a government dept. He changed toner in printers and nothing else. The reason being that the guy whose job it was to change typewriter ribbons had refused to do it and now comes in with the Indo and sits in the canteen all day. I believe Dublin Bus still have conductors on the books who do similar.

conductors went a very long time ago. so i'm afraid you believe incorrectly.

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I should be ashamed that I don’t think it’s right that a postman earns more than me from the tax pot I pay into to service the state?

A job for life no matter what?
Pension?

If I get let go tomorrow jobbridge will be hassling me with more tax payers money?

The nub of it indeed.

Never mind the lads sleeping on streets and mattresses in shared room with drug adicts smoking gear in the bed beside you. Nah give the tax money to the postman.

there are no jobs for life and haven't been for a very long time. a post man's pension is unlikely to be a generous one.

Roger Hassenforder · 31-01-2019 08:30AM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

You can’t just privatize the whole health sector in one go. Obviously piece by piece.
But say they put all the useless staff in one ward in Beaumont. Then sacked them all and paid a private company what that ward costs to run and gave them standards to adhere to with financial penalties.

The private company then advertised these jobs at 50 cent more an hour and the media got behind it with a getting rid of the deadweight factor.
Are you saying the private company wouldn’t perform better?

Say the union striked.

Say the government sacked another ward full of staff and privatized that and said they are going to do the same next week and every week until people got back in their box and put a 600 per cent tax on union fees.

Long term the average joe would benefit if he survived the first few weeks.

So its privatise poorly performing nurses?

What KPIs would you define for these nurses?
How would you seperate the "wheat from the chaff"?

troyzer · 31-01-2019 08:33AM

Over half of my public sector agency has outsourced contractors. Many of these hired on a legally questionable "self-employed" basis.

There's more privatisation in the public sector already than you might think.

Roger Hassenforder · 31-01-2019 08:33AM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

I should be ashamed that I don’t think it’s right that a postman earns more than me from the tax pot I pay into to service the state?

A job for life no matter what?
Pension?

If I get let go tomorrow jobbridge will be hassling me with more tax payers money?

The nub of it indeed.

Never mind the lads sleeping on streets and mattresses in shared room with drug adicts smoking gear in the bed beside you. Nah give the tax money to the postman.

Fcuk it I'm out.
For someone interested in debate, and decrying populist thanks whores, all you seem to have are bitter ramblings .

Enjoy your thread

James Bond Junior · 31-01-2019 08:44AM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I watched a documentary about what happened when the Detroit police was outsourced to an evil corporation.

What documentary was that?

Roger Hassenforder · 31-01-2019 08:58AM

James Bond Junior wrote: »

What documentary was that?

Look up Omni Consumer Products on Wall St. Journal or Financial Times
Mother of all poor business plans.

wrangler · 31-01-2019 09:00AM

beauf wrote: »

Most of the public sector has outsourced a lot its work to the private sector. So what you asking for is largely already been done where they can.
Except the contractors and private sector treat it like a gravy train, and it ends up costing more money then it saves.

https://www.thejournal.ie/midwives-nurses-4309347-Oct2018/

Social housing outsourced to the private rental market.

There is huge problems with out sourcing, bit it's because public servants in charge of it have little regard for taxpayers money .......and as you say it then becomes a gravy train.
Shameful what's going on

Ush1 · 31-01-2019 09:22AM

troyzer wrote: »

Over half of my public sector agency has outsourced contractors. Many of these hired on a legally questionable "self-employed" basis.

There's more privatisation in the public sector already than you might think.

How so? Huge number of contractors are self employed.

troyzer · 31-01-2019 09:24AM

Ush1 wrote: »

How so? Huge number of contractors are self employed.

I personally don't understand how I sit in an office next to someone doing EXACTLY the same job as me, working the same hours, reporting to the same boss, carry out the same tasks and yet somehow I'm an employee and they're self employed.

OwaynOTT · 31-01-2019 09:29AM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

For a little more than a postman’s wages?

Of course they would have a lad there at 5 am the next morning. My postman used to turn up whenever he wanted. He drank pints with whiskey chasers down the local everyday. 4 of them. Some weeks you got all your post on one day.

Look at the success of all these private delivery crowds when the public delivery crowd were operating at a loss for years when they were the only show in town.

We still have to subsidize the postmens wages though with our taxes.

Don't know if this has been addressed but An Post are winning s lot of the big contracts back, like Littlewoods, becuase of the unreliability of the private delivery crowds like fastway, dpd etc.

suicide_circus · 31-01-2019 09:32AM

the idea that the state needs to permanently employ huge amounts of people to do certain jobs is relatively modern.

for hundreds of years the big naval powers used to outsource work to privateers; privately funded warships that the king or government hired to harass, take, burn or destroy their enemies at sea.

Standing armies were very small and their numbers were boosted with contractors (mercenaries) during times of conflict.

Education and healthcare were largely within the perview of the churches or later wealthy philanthropists.

Wanderer78 · 31-01-2019 09:36AM

Thankfully neoliberalism is solving all our social needs, creating a peaceful world, with equal opportunities for all, and spreading wealth equally amongst all. Neoliberalism rocks!

Ush1 · 31-01-2019 09:45AM

troyzer wrote: »

I personally don't understand how I sit in an office next to someone doing EXACTLY the same job as me, working the same hours, reporting to the same boss, carry out the same tasks and yet somehow I'm an employee and they're self employed.

There shouldn't be any legal issue. Very common in a lot of industries.

There is pros and cons of being a contractor vs being a full time member of staff and likewise pros and cons for the company hiring. The role may be temporary or project based in nature, covering someone's leave etc...

troyzer · 31-01-2019 09:51AM

Ush1 wrote: »

There shouldn't be any legal issue. Very common in a lot of industries.

There is pros and cons of being a contractor vs being a full time member of staff and likewise pros and cons for the company hiring. The role may be temporary or project based in nature, covering someone's leave etc...

It's not. One of the guys has been here for eight years on a self employed basis. He is an employee for all intents and purposes.

31-01-2019 10:41AM

Do you think nurses and doctors and allied health professionals are going to work for less in a private hospital, of course, they're not why would they when they can work anywhere in the world the same for health care management which is highly specialised.

Even if you got someone like sedexo to provide all the support and maintenance services they are not going to be employing plumbers and IT specialists andy cheaper the cost would be passed on to the patient or the HSE.

The is no cheap way of running a modern country.

Ush1 · 31-01-2019 10:46AM

troyzer wrote: »

It's not. One of the guys has been here for eight years on a self employed basis. He is an employee for all intents and purposes.

But they aren't the same. Sure I sit next to a guy who's a contractor on the same site 16 years.

He wouldn't get redundancy or anything like a full time employee. Pension contributions, insurance, sick pay etc... He could be technically dropped and the contract not renewed, unlike staff.

As I said, pros and cons.

Mad_maxx · 31-01-2019 10:49AM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I watched a documentary about what happened when the Detroit police was outsourced to an evil corporation.

Robocop has to be the most anti private sector movie ever

Still love it though

troyzer · 31-01-2019 10:49AM

Ush1 wrote: »

But they aren't the same. Sure I sit next to a guy who's a contractor on the same site 16 years.

He wouldn't get redundancy or anything like a full time employee. Pension contributions, insurance, sick pay etc... He could be technically dropped and the contract not renewed, unlike staff.

As I said, pros and cons.

That's my whole point though. He is effectively an employee but gets none of the benefits and protections.

Ush1 · 31-01-2019 10:51AM

troyzer wrote: »

That's my whole point though. He is effectively an employee but gets none of the benefits and protections.

But he's likely getting paid more than most employees and paying less tax. At least he should be if he has his head screwed on.

Mad_maxx · 31-01-2019 10:52AM

buried wrote: »

Yeah man just Privatize everything just like Thatcher did over in the UK back in the 80's. Really makes the whole place such a better total f**king community barren, Grim, Grey $hithole. Then, when the people start realising just what a f**king Grim Grey $hithole it has become from their own governments policies of privatization and share holder stock market Cocksucking, sure just blame the dastardly EU.

Agree with most of that, Germany decided to keep its industry but is not ideologically statist like the French, their health system is also very pragmatic, market involved but without the predatory practices of insurance like in the usa

Point being, there are alternatives to the thatcher approach when it comes to seeking reform

What if a forced privatization happened

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