Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

30-01-2019 08:26PM

political analyst wrote: »

As I've asked in another thread here a few days ago, is there really no alternative to a "one size fits all" public-sector pay agreement?

What is good enough for a civil servant isn't necessarily good enough for a nurse because of the nature of the work.

If junior civil servants were asked if emergency services workers' pay should be considered a special case, they'd probably say Yes and then they could tell the leadership of their union that they don't want to make a pay claim to compete.

Good point about "one side fits all". But this applies within nursing as well. Not all nurses are working in highly pressured/highly skilled environments. Plenty are not. So why an accross the board 12% demand? Maybe they should tell the leadership of their nursing union that any money for an increase should go towards those in the really demanding positions?

But as much chance of that as there is of "junior civil servants" (or any others) saying that the nursing case is special and they won't pile in with similar claims.

Huntergonzo · 30-01-2019 08:28PM

Nurses do, do a great job and possibly do deserve a pay rise, but unfortunately you can't always get what you want/deserve. I don't think the exchequer can afford it at present and therefore it shouldn't be given, but I do expect some sort of half baked compromise after the stand off.

What I really enjoy about these campaigns though is the amount of opposition politicians and local mouths that jump on the 'stand with the nurses' bandwagon. Why not stand with the nurses when you're soon to be standing for election, it's gas.

Flyingsnowball · 30-01-2019 08:28PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

How much does a newly qualified basic new entrant pharmacist make? And one with one masters and more experience , say 10 years? You sound like a senior pharmacist, so you are not comparing like for like. And fo you get an extra payment for your two masters? I know nurses who have teo masters, make clinical decisions every day and save resources, and don't get paid that much, but it would be interesting to see how much more you get...

Hi just joining in the discussion while I hope somebody answers my original thread here.
It’s funny that it’s actually about me going back to college. A big worry for me about going back and getting a degree is that I will be just too tired after a day on the building site earning less than a nurse even though I’m qualified and have 15 years experience at my trade.

How did this nurse find the time to get two masters degrees whilst working so hard and for so little.

I’m hoping to get some sort of grant to afford a degree.

30-01-2019 08:34PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I know nurses who have two masters, make clinical decisions every day and save resources, and don't get paid that much, but it would be interesting to see how much more you get...

So if the average pay for a nurse in the HSE (after allowances, premium pay and overtime) is €57000, who is getting the higher salaries to bring the average up to this level?

Twenty Grand · 30-01-2019 08:34PM

Tell me how wrote: »

How many are leaving because they are overworked and stressed, or how many are leaving because they are young, have a qualification which means that they can travel abroad for life experiences while earning?

I'm sure there are some of the former but I also expect that there are many of the latter.

What does it matter though? Either way nurses the Irish government spent thousands training are leaving the country for better wages, better conditions and better experiences. Most will probably come back, but that's 5 or so years that the nurses you've trained are off elsewhere.

That 70% of grads consider moving abroad figure is astounding. Is there any hospital in the country that's adequately staffed?

Is there many other professions where job vacancies across the board are left unfilled for months and years?

Tell me how · 30-01-2019 08:36PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What does it matter though? Either way nurses the Irish government spent thousands training are leaving the country for better wages, better conditions and better experiences. Most will probably come back, but that's 5 or so years that the nurses you've trained are off elsewhere.

That 70% of grads consider moving abroad figure is astounding. Is there any hospital in the country that's adequately staffed?

Is there many other professions where job vacancies across the board are left unfilled for months and years?

I would have thought it is fairly obvious why it matters.
If they are leaving for reasons other than money then there is no point paying them more money hoping they will stay.

Miike · 30-01-2019 08:37PM

1641 wrote: »

So if the average pay for a nurse in the HSE (after allowances, premium pay and overtime) is €57000, who is getting the higher salaries to bring the average up to this level?

All of those are without premia, overtime etc. That's a like for like comparison.

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 08:37PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Yes it does mean that if they are successful then all nurses in management roles will also get the payrise.

That is why the figure of 57k is relevant.

If it was just at an active on ward level, I would be in favour of their request, but it isn't.

No nurse gets paid this money , as I have told you repeatedly , unless she is top of the scale working as a senior nurse running everything and with a lot of headache and responsibility, and working weekends and nights, which she should be getting paid for anyway. 57 k is the salary of a nurse manager.

Twenty Grand · 30-01-2019 08:39PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I would have thought it is fairly obvious why it matters.
If they are leaving for reasons other than money then there is no point paying them more money hoping they will stay.

Nurses leaving straight after college is only one symptom of huge recruitment problems.
I don't think chronic understaffing across all levels in hospitals is purely nurses going off on a jolly for a few years.

Always Tired · 30-01-2019 08:39PM

speedboatchase wrote: »

Give her lots of money! She is now suddenly better at her job and deserves more money!

if you weren't so ignorant on this issue you would know it's pay restoration they seek, and it's less than what the FG government gave themselves since coming into office

she's been a nurse for almost 10 years and is nowhere near this farcical 57 k average, and is in a Dublin hospital

Tell me how · 30-01-2019 08:41PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

No nurse gets paid this money , as I have told you repeatedly , unless she is top of the scale working as a senior nurse running everything and with a lot of headache and responsibility, and working weekends and nights, which she should be getting paid for anyway. 57 k is the salary of a nurse manager.

Shaking my head here.

That is the reported average earnings.
The INMO have not challenged this average.
The strike is for a 12% increase across all grades.
The nurses should highlight/acknowledge the disparity in numbers receiving this which has such an impact in driving up the average and suggest ways to reduce the numbers in such roles.
Then I will support the claim for a ward nurse increase.

Twenty Grand · 30-01-2019 08:44PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Then I will support the claim for a ward nurse increase.

It makes zero difference whether you do or don't support the nurses.

They'll get their wage hike.

Tell me how · 30-01-2019 08:44PM

Always Tired wrote: »

if you weren't so ignorant on this issue you would know it's pay restoration they seek, and it's less than what the FG government gave themselves since coming into office

she's been a nurse for almost 10 years and is nowhere near this farcical 57 k average, and is in a Dublin hospital

Would that be a Pay restoration to that of the time immediately prior to the crash in 2008 or to that of the time before benchmarking increases awarded in 2002?

30-01-2019 08:50PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Is there many other professions where job vacancies across the board are left unfilled for months and years?

Loads of professions in the HSE - look at Mental Health Teams or Early intervention teams, for instance. But the solution is not throwing more money at the bottomless pit of the HSE.

We are already at, or near, the top of the scale for health service spending in Europe. There should be no pay increase for anyone until the whole system is rationalised and reformed. But are the Unions up for this? - Not a chance. They are all out for a competitive advantage for their own - and preserving or expanding jobs where they are, even if this is not the optimal for health delivery.

Health service unions have about as much committment to health as burglars have to de-cluttering.

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 08:52PM

Graces7 wrote: »

magentis wrote: »

Love these threads.I can just picture some of the posters here left in a situation where they have to clean up someone that has defecated themselves. "

Mothers do this all the time without pay and carers do it all the time with little financial reward. Time was nursing was about more than higher pay.

Bad mother and carer who wouldn't do this, but is your point that nursing used to be a "vocation" , and they should kneel down and thank God for the chance to show they care, and not be looking for more money, or better patient / nursing ratios ?
By the way, carers aren't paid enough either. People would be queuing on the double in A&E if it weren't for them.

runawaybishop · 30-01-2019 08:54PM

Always Tired wrote: »

if you weren't so ignorant on this issue you would know it's pay restoration they seek, and it's less than what the FG government gave themselves since coming into office

she's been a nurse for almost 10 years and is nowhere near this farcical 57 k average, and is in a Dublin hospital

But they are getting pay restoration, the same as every other public servant? They want a pay rise, not just restoration.

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 08:58PM

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Graces7 wrote: »

And Nurses dont do it at all, Health Care Assistants do-the real underpaid unsung heroes of the Hospitals!

Not true , about nurses , that is. No problem with health care assistants, but where I work they can't do anything eith a patient unless a nurse was with them .

RinusLaptop76 · 30-01-2019 09:00PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They should let them know the pay rates before they sign up to stop them becoming nurses and then not agreeing with the pay..........

And then Ireland ends up with no nurses/healthcare? Good luck Ireland with that.

Martina1991 · 30-01-2019 09:01PM

EdgeCase wrote:

The conditions and staffing levels seem to be more of a problem than anything else from what I've seen and heard of hospitals.

Talking to a friend of mine today, she said she doesnt mind the pay because she gets paid more for doing nights and weekends and has more time off.

Its the understaffing thats the problem. But you kind of need to increase pay to entice people to stay rather than emmigrate.

Miike wrote:

All that nurses are asking to be paid the same as other healthcare professionals who work less hours and have 20% of the caseload of a nurse. Also other allied healthcare professionals aren't required to do specialist post grads or MSc's to have any opportunity to move up or even laterally with their career. Nurses would have around 7ish years done in University to get the same rate of a pay as a 3 year degree OT graduate.

Not true. I need to have my masters to gain promotion even though there is little opportunity to do so. I had to pay for it myself, unlike some further nursing qualifications that are paid for.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-01-2019 09:04PM

Once upon a time there was a standoff between the civil service and the govt.

But the govt refused to back down on pay grades.

But everyone got promoted a grade.

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 09:04PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Sounds like they were looking for a few days off

They gave the patient the wrong drink ? there's a lot missing out of that story

We've all seen what they're like :

Yawn...didn't we see that post a week ago? Anything constructive to add?

TheRiverman · 30-01-2019 09:08PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Not true , about nurses , that is. No problem with health care assistants, but where I work they can't do anything eith a patient unless a nurse was with them .

And if the Health Care Assistant does something wrong the nurse is to blame.Crazy.

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 09:20PM

road_high wrote: »

Country can’t afford this- simple as. Couldn’t be worse timing really with such uncertainty in the economy right now

Country can't afford the salaries the tds are paying themselves.
Country can't afford the cost of agency nurses every week.
Country can't afford the building cost of the new children's hospital.
Country can't afford patients dying of misread cervical smear tests.

But this country does all of the above...
Country can't afford to pay nurses more so that they don't have understaffed wards, closed beds , cancelled operating theatre lists and massive waiting lists ..all due to the fact that nurses have copped on to the abuse of their skills and goodwill and are looking to other countries who value them.

decky1 · 30-01-2019 09:27PM

Spent a year in James up till then never had to give a thought to nurses or their pay and conditions, i think the deserve to have their pay [whatever it is ] doubled starting tomorrow, those girls there in Burketts wards + the day ward they never stop working don't know where they get their energy or commitment, Thanks everyone there you saved my life, I could never repay them ,hope they get what they want [and it still would'nt be enough.

Miike · 30-01-2019 09:38PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

Talking to a friend of mine today, she said she doesnt mind the pay because she gets paid more for doing nights and weekends and has more time off.

Its the understaffing thats the problem. But you kind of need to increase pay to entice people to stay rather than emmigrate.

Not true. I need to have my masters to gain promotion even though there is little opportunity to do so. I had to pay for it myself, unlike some further nursing qualifications that are paid for.

What field?

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 09:38PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Why would you think nurses are not comparable to physios ? Physiotherapist do fantastic work and are well educated and trained . A nurse would not be trained or able to do physio

Nurses are also well educated and trained and do work that physios are not trained to do . Nurses give IV,s .Give drugs , care for ventilated patients . Care for high dependent new born and prem babies with multiple needs and drips and lines .
I see the two jobs as comparable actually and one complimenting the other . I find it odd you would compare a nurse to an accounts assistant and a physio to the financial controller ? Maybe you have never experienced a paediatric intensive care and the amount of knowledge and skill a nurse needs to keep those patients alive .

And the nurse looking after that baby or child will have at least two qualifications ,and paeds or neonatal intensive care course to boot, but hey they're only nurses, right?!

Flyingsnowball · 30-01-2019 09:40PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

And the nurse looking after that baby or child will have at least two qualifications ,and paeds or neonatal intensive care course to boot, but hey they're only nurses, right?!

Where did she get the time or money to get these degrees if she is so overworked and underpaid?

Miike · 30-01-2019 09:42PM

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

Where did she get the time or money to get these degrees if she is so overworked and underpaid?

Jesus tonight. Where's the rain that fell last winter? You're really clutching at straws here. Are you suggesting just because nurses aren't bed bound outside of their shift that they're not worked hard enough?

Goldengirl · 30-01-2019 09:43PM

road_high wrote: »

There’s simply no comparison. Nursing is more of a generic qualification with some specialism. They don’t diagnose or indeed select treatments- if they did we wouldn’t need doctors.

You know nothing about it and you are trying to make points without the knowledge to back it up.
Nurses don't do that . Everything they do has to be backed up by research and scientifically proven facts. That is why it is a BSc course , and it is very specific.

Flyingsnowball · 30-01-2019 09:46PM

Miike wrote: »

Jesus tonight. Where's the rain that fell last winter? You're really clutching at straws here. Are you suggesting just because nurses aren't bed bound outside of their shift that they're not worked hard enough?

The media tells me they are. Why didn’t they become doctors if they can get two degrees?

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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