6n 2019 Ireland v England Build Up Thread

Burkie1203 · 26-01-2019 10:38pm #1

Am gonna have a guess at the 15

Healy Best Furlong Toner Ryan POM SOB Stander

Murray Sexton Stockdale Aki Ringrose Earls Larmour

Bench
McGrath Cronin Porter Roux VDF Cooney Carbery Addison

Squidgy Black · 26-01-2019 10:49pm

Can't see Joe dropping Rob K regardless of his performance last night. And the same with Henshaw, I can't see Joe selecting Aki over him now that's he's back fit

Burkie1203 · 26-01-2019 10:52pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Can't see Joe dropping Rob K regardless of his performance last night. And the same with Henshaw, I can't see Joe selecting Aki over him now that's he's back fit

Joe has had a tendency to pick his moments with players who were previously regulars. Ross and Darce spring to mind.

Just have a feeling there might be 1 or 2 unexpected selections in the first 2 games

Former Former · 26-01-2019 11:48pm

The only selection I can't call is 12. Could be either of them and neither would be the wrong choice.

VDF will get the 20 jersey I reckon. I'd pick Addison at 23 ahead of Larmour or Conway.

Clegg · 27-01-2019 12:32am

By rights VdF should start at 7. SoB has no form to speak of. Would be a huge risk throwing himself and Kearney in.

Actually quite worried about this game. England will be out to do a job on us and we've a few players with question marks surround fitness and form.

ClanofLams · 27-01-2019 12:39am

Also in the concerned camp. From what I have seen of English players, they look a lot closer to two years ago than 2018. Think the post lions slump and the lunacy of them being back training after only a week or ten days back from MZ really affected them last year. Many have forgotten that before they lost to Ireland in final game of 2017 6N, they looked near unstoppable.

If it was in Twickenham, would have Eng as favourites, hopefully home advantage is enough to swing it.

thomond2006 · 27-01-2019 12:43am

Kearney was in the horrors on Friday. If he's not 100% in training during the week then he needs to sit this game out. The lack of an alternative playing regularly at 15 is a concern. The next man up is presumably Larmour but Conway or Addison are options also.

Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Ryan, POM, VDF, Stander;
Murray, Sexton, Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Stockdale, Kearney

Cronin, McGrath, Porter, Dillane, SOB, Cooney, Carbery, Addison

Annabella1 · 27-01-2019 12:45am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Am gonna have a guess at the 15

Healy Best Furlong Toner Ryan POM SOB Stander

Murray Sexton Stockdale Aki Ringrose Earls Larmour

Bench
McGrath Cronin Porter Roux VDF Cooney Carbery Addison

Good team
Would probably swap in henshaw and dillane on the bench
Gonna be a nail biter

thomond2006 · 27-01-2019 1:01am

I'm far more nervous about the trip to Murrayfield than this game tbh.

awec · 27-01-2019 1:05am

I reckon Aki retains his spot.

Dubinusa · 27-01-2019 3:54am

Can't see SOB in ahead of VDF! The 23 jersey will be interesting too. I think Conway will get it.
I am nervous for this one. I think England are on the up again.

Faugheen · 27-01-2019 10:49am

I think VDF is one of those players who should start or not play at all.

I think he should start with SOB on the bench, but if SOB keeps going well I reckon he'll start.

If the latter is the case, Jordi should bench as he can cover the entire back-row. If Stander goes down then we've a problem in that none of the other three (POM, SOB, VDF) are as good at 8 as Murphy is.

VDF should be starting as he's been our best 7 by a country mile this year (followed by Murphy) but if SOB is in anyway decent nick then you couldn't turn your nose up at him either.

molloyjh · 27-01-2019 11:48am

I think Rob will have work to do to show he’s deserving of his spot, but he’s delivered before so I don’t doubt he’ll do so again. And it’s probably no harm him having that pressure to keep him on his toes. Lord knows he doesn’t have a contender breathing down his neck to do that. Still. But if he doesn’t make his case I’d start Addison and bench Larmour.

In terms of the Aki/Henshaw call, I’d be with FF on it. I’m not sure there’s a wrong decision there and it’ll all come down to how they go in training I’d say.

At 7 there is no way anyone other than VDF should start for me. SOB has barely played in 2 months and VDF has been going well.

I’m not sure there are any other contentious calls tbh. The second row on the bench is about the only other one. I haven’t seen enough of Connacht this season to call that, although I wonder will we be prioritising line out calling there? Which of Dillane or Roux would fit that bill best?

Healy
Best
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
POFM
VDF
Stander

Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw/Aki
Ringrose
Earls
Kearney/Addison

Cronin
McGrath
Porter
Dillane/Roux
SOB
Cooney
Carbery
Addison/Larmour

Wegians89 · 27-01-2019 12:26pm

Healy
Best
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
Pom
Vdf
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Earls
Kearney/ Addison

Croinin
McGrath
Porter
Dillane/ roux
Sob
Cooney
Carbery
Henshaw

molloyjh · 27-01-2019 12:31pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

Healy
Best
Furlong
Toner
Ryan
Pom
Vdf
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Earls
Kearney/ Addison

Croinin
McGrath
Porter
Dillane/ roux
Sob
Cooney
Carbery
Henshaw

I think either Henshaw starts or he doesn’t feature at all. He doesn’t offer the coverage across the back line that Addison and Larmour do. He hasn’t played anywhere other than centre in any meaningful way in years. Same with Aki.

Former Former · 27-01-2019 2:03pm

molloyjh wrote: »

At 7 there is no way anyone other than VDF should start for me. SOB has barely played in 2 months and VDF has been going well.

On paper, I agree. I'm a huge VDF fanboy and would love to see him play. He's been almost as unlucky as SOB with injury and he deserves a run.

But I also think SOB is in the Furlong/Murray/Sexton bracket that if he's fit enough to stand, he's going straight into the team. He's just that good.

Former Former · 27-01-2019 2:06pm

So I would predict

Kearney
Earls Ringrose Henshaw Stockdale
Sexton Murray
Healy Best Furlong
Ryan Toner
POM Stander SOB

Cronin McGrath Porter Roux VDF Cooney Carbery Addison

Dubinusa · 27-01-2019 2:44pm

Larmour might not make the cut?
How bizarre. He is so good and yet...
We are in a place we've never been before.
Addison has really impressed and improved our options.
Conway is a superb player and is playing outstanding.
Larmour is the future. He's brilliant but, he's still learning.

Amazing to think these 3 lads are at our disposal.

27-01-2019 2:52pm

The opening 40 of Ireland v England is going to be utterly brutal. Two serious contenders for the title looking to put down a marker.

I expect Ireland to come out on top for several reasons, but I reckon I'll be watching through my fingers.

I think Carbery will start more than one game and it won't be injury related.

molloyjh · 27-01-2019 3:23pm

Former Former wrote: »

On paper, I agree. I'm a huge VDF fanboy and would love to see him play. He's been almost as unlucky as SOB with injury and he deserves a run.

But I also think SOB is in the Furlong/Murray/Sexton bracket that if he's fit enough to stand, he's going straight into the team. He's just that good.

I just think the game will be played at a pace that SOB hasn’t seen in a long while, so VDF makes far more sense to start. And I reckon it’s probably the best way of bringing SOB back in. He tends to be a little slow to come back to form after injury.

WoollyRedHat · 27-01-2019 4:07pm

Would be madness to throw SOB in at deep end against Eng. VDF starts no questions asked for me. SOB is a great option off the bench.

Dog Botherer · 27-01-2019 4:33pm

England will come out and play like madmen for 40 minutes, they have a huge point to prove. However, Ireland are very very very good at rolling with the punches, and I expect them to be ahead at half time, after which England will wilt a bit and Ireland will finish them off.

England have some great talent but their emphasis is brawn over brain. Ireland should eat that for breakfast.

baas baa · 27-01-2019 7:09pm

I'll bow to Schmdts better judgement but after how long O'Brien has been out and how routinely he breaks down I wouldnt have him near test rugby and leave him with Leinster to prove his fitness for a minimum of 6 months before having him in the conversation for Ireland. I think it's worth mentioning as well that he was dreadful in his last 6 nations for Ireland, even though he had a superb lions tour a few months later.

irishbucsfan · 27-01-2019 7:11pm

baas baa wrote: »

I'll bow to Schmdts better judgement but after how long O'Brien has been out and how routinely he breaks down I wouldnt have him near test rugby and leave him with Leinster to prove his fitness for a minimum of 6 months before having him in the conversation for Ireland. I think it's worth mentioning as well that he was dreadful in his last 6 nations for Ireland, even though he had a superb lions tour a few months later.

He won't get through 6 months of rugby.

He wasn't close to "dreadful" in his last 6 Nations. That's a ridiculous overstatement.

bilston · 27-01-2019 7:31pm

I can't say I watched the Wasps Leinster game that closely, but the bits I did see, it looked like SOB was going well.

I'd probably have him on the bench against England with JVDF starting.

As for 12, all I'd say is that if there has been one constant in our success in the last 12 months, it is Bundee Aki. So for me I'd go Aki/Ringrose. But it's close with Henshaw.

I expect Kearney to start at FB.

I think the rest of the starting XV picks itself.

Not sure who is ahead between Roux and Dillane for the second row bench spot. Is Marmion going to be available? And then there is No.23. Addison covers back three and centre, where as Larmour only really covers the back three so that may give him the edge over the Leinsterman...tight though...could go either way

awec · 27-01-2019 8:03pm

SOB is too risky to bench. He could come on and break after 5 minutes.

He either starts or isn't involved for me.

Former Former · 27-01-2019 8:11pm

There was a discussion on Newstalk today with MOK and Ruaidhri O'Connor, MOK reckons Roux will get the nod for the bench because he's a better lineout caller than either Ryan or Dillane if Toner has to go off.

But also that the starters will play 80 mins if possible so it might not matter

bilston · 27-01-2019 8:34pm

How long is Beirne out for?

Did I read that Henderson is expected to be back for Rds 4 and 5?

Buer · 27-01-2019 9:17pm

SOB was full of aggression and energy early on against Wasps but he was struggling very early. He fell off a tackle in his own 22 a couple of phases before Hughes scores and it was SOB on the line again who Hughes went through to score. I don't think VDF makes those errors purely on the basis of fitness and sharpness.

I can see VDF starting and being put on Billy V duty. If Vunipola so much as looks at touching the ball, he's chopped. VDF is tailor made for the job and England are hugely depleted if BV can't make an impression.

irishbucsfan · 27-01-2019 9:25pm

It would be a waste of VDF to put him man marking when he leads the entire defensive line so well, especially when we have multiple players capable of taking Billy V down like that. I’d much rather make it a systemic approach

27-01-2019 9:30pm

I wouldn't be surprised if SOB starts.

Joe will know exactly where his fitness is after the few weeks in camp and will know exactly what he is capable of delivering.

He fast tracked him before and if the broken arm is fully recovered he'll do the same again.

He may not be in the frame, but I wouldn't be confident in ruling him out nor would I second guess his inclusion.

If he is fit and performing in training he'll be in the mix for the match day. After that it's up to him to take top spot or someone else to deny him it.

Former Former · 27-01-2019 9:45pm

I think if Joe was worried about SOB being undercooked he'd have sent him out against the Scarlets along with McGrath and Kearney.

ionadnapokot · 27-01-2019 10:20pm

Predicted sides.
3 headline grabbers. But in reality I don’t think these 3 players can play v Eng.
Rob - Not match sharp. Or even close.
SO’B - Old SO’B rules don’t apply any longer. Bench v Scot.
Henshaw - Aki has been exceptional

Addison; Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Ryan, POM, VdF, CJ.
Rep: Cronin, McGrath, Porter, Dillane, Murphy, Carbery, Cooney, Larmour.

Daly; Cokanasiga, Slade, Tuilagi, May; Farrell, Youngs; Mako V, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Shields/Wilson, Curry/Wilson, Billy V.
Rep: Luke CD, Moon, Williams, Launchbury, Hughes, Robson, Ford, Ashton.

Btw: long term weather forecast is for cold dry day and gentle breeze.

Zzippy · 27-01-2019 11:04pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I think either Henshaw starts or he doesn’t feature at all. He doesn’t offer the coverage across the back line that Addison and Larmour do. He hasn’t played anywhere other than centre in any meaningful way in years. Same with Aki.

Henshaw is an excellent fullback. When he broke into the Connacht team there I was amazed how well he reads the game and how good his positioning was - especially for a guy just out of school. He doesn't have electric pace, but neither does Kearney - both read the game well enough to be in the right place when needed. It's been a while alright, but he has more experience there than Larmour or Addison, I'd have no qualms with him on the bench. If Kearney is dropped for either of those, Henshaw on the bench is a no-brainer, as he covers 12/13/15 and the starting 15 can move out and cover wing if a wing has to come off.

baas baa · 27-01-2019 11:13pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He won't get through 6 months of rugby.

He wasn't close to "dreadful" in his last 6 Nations. That's a ridiculous overstatement.

The away match against Wales was easily his worst performance I can recall. He earned his place at being one of the undroppables but his performances had slipped massively, we were trying to play a more expansive game but his handling was a real issue.

The Rape of Lucretia · 27-01-2019 11:20pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Henshaw is an excellent fullback. When he broke into the Connacht team there I was amazed how well he reads the game and how good his positioning was - especially for a guy just out of school. He doesn't have electric pace, but neither does Kearney - both read the game well enough to be in the right place when needed. It's been a while alright, but he has more experience there than Larmour or Addison, I'd have no qualms with him on the bench. If Kearney is dropped for either of those, Henshaw on the bench is a no-brainer, as he covers 12/13/15 and the starting 15 can move out and cover wing if a wing has to come off.

Yes.
More than his running, passing, kicking, or tackling, skills or speed, for me, Henshaw's strongest attribute that makes him the player he is, is his reading of the game.

His peripheral vision, reading of his team mates intentions, positioning in attack and defence, and running lines, are terrific and stand to him in whatever position he is playing. Joe has never really been in the position with him of having ample centre options, and no fb options, to make it worth while playing him there. So it remains. Without some time at 15 he is unlikely to be a bench option.

Full back is the most exposed position in this respect of getting reads wrong and be left looking silly. Its what makes Bobster a world class fb too even though the criticisms of his limitations in his counterattacking running are valid. Henshaw, did indeed seem to be a born 15 as you say, and at that time, I saw his future clearly as a fb, so natural did he seem to take to it.

I think Ireland just needs him more in the centre these days, where even Kearney-less we have a variety of viable options for the one shirt.

Jump_In_Jack · 27-01-2019 11:26pm

My fantasy selection:

Healy-Cronin-Furlong
Ryan-Toner
O’Mahony-Stander-Van der Flier
Murray-Sexton
Stockdale-Aki-Ringrose-Earls
Larmour

Scannell-Kilcoyne-Ryan-Dillane-Murphy-Cooney-Carbery-Addison

Best, O’Brien, Henshaw, Kearney, McGrath, Porter, Roux, are all likely to play a part instead of my fantasy selection.

Zzippy · 28-01-2019 12:03am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Y

I think Ireland just needs him more in the centre these days, where even Kearney-less we have a variety of viable options for the one shirt.

If Aki gets the nod at 12 and Larmour/Addison/Conway/Earls get the 15 shirt Henshaw is still a great bench option to cover both. He covers both better than any of the above.

The Rape of Lucretia · 28-01-2019 12:51am

Zzippy wrote: »

If Aki gets the nod at 12 and Larmour/Addison/Conway/Earls get the 15 shirt Henshaw is still a great bench option to cover both. He covers both better than any of the above.

I'm not really disagreeing. It just doesnt seem to be a Joe thing though.
There is no way Earls is in the 15 thinking anymore btw.

And a missing Rob would cement Henshaw starting. He will only not start if Rob is starting, or they are both injured.

28-01-2019 3:33am

I've heard Henshaw has been training at 15

troyzer · 28-01-2019 11:18am

SOB off the bench just makes too much sense. He's clearly not entirely match fit. If you start him, then VdF probably drops out of the 23. Then you'll have Nordi on the bench.

If Stander or POM go down in the first five minutes, do we really think SOB would be able to go the full 80 in what's bound to be a physical onslaught?

No way. Bring him on as the most depressing impact sub any team could ever face.

Aki starts over Henshaw. He's the incumbent and he's done nothing to lose the 12 jersey. Henshaw has to earn it back and I think it's a good signal to the rest of the team that you won't be dropped if you're playing well.

There's an argument for an Aki/Henshaw midfield and Ringrose at 23.

Clegg · 28-01-2019 11:48am

There's no argument for a centre pairing without Ringrose imo. He's the best 13 we have by miles.

troyzer · 28-01-2019 11:51am

Clegg wrote: »

There's no argument for a centre pairing without Ringrose imo. He's the best 13 we have by miles.

He's the best 13, I agree.

But horses for courses could come into play. Tuilagi has about 20kg on Ringrose.

AdamD · 28-01-2019 11:55am

troyzer wrote: »

He's the best 13, I agree.

But horses for courses could come into play. Tuilagi has about 20kg on Ringrose.

And Ringrose is a better player by a country mile. Size is not an issue.

PhlegmyMoses · 28-01-2019 12:00pm

Ringrose has incredible tackle technique and decision making for what to do when faced with a bigger man. I would have farmore worries about Aki and Henshaw defensively on the outside than with Ringrose. His defence is outstanding.

He is also more capable than any other centre we have of making something out of nothing with either a run or a kick. He has quietly become a world class operator and should be close to first name on the teamsheet.

troyzer · 28-01-2019 12:00pm

AdamD wrote: »

And Ringrose is a better player by a country mile. Size is not an issue.

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

He's a magnificent player but for some context, Tuilagi is exactly the same listed height and weight of Cian Healy.

You can't realistically expect Ringrose to play 80 minutes without giving up a few line breaks in such an uneven physical match.

troyzer · 28-01-2019 12:03pm

troyzer wrote: »

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

He's a magnificent player but for some context, Tuilagi is exactly the same listed height and weight of Cian Healy.

You can't realistically expect Ringrose to play 80 minutes without giving up a few line breaks in such an uneven physical match.

Just to head off any accusations of trolling or favouritism, I only said the below thing a few weeks ago in the Leinster thread:

troyzer wrote: »

At what point can we realistically start talking about Ringrose as a superior player to BOD?

He's already a better defender. He doesn't produce the highlight reel trickplays but he's still an elite running threat.

I adore Ringrose. I just don't think he matches up well against an outside centre who is so much larger than him.

AdamD · 28-01-2019 12:07pm

troyzer wrote: »

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

He's a magnificent player but for some context, Tuilagi is exactly the same listed height and weight of Cian Healy.

You can't realistically expect Ringrose to play 80 minutes without giving up a few line breaks in such an uneven physical match.

If England's tactics consist of repeatedly running in a straight line we'll have no worries come the end of the game.

Podge_irl · 28-01-2019 12:08pm

troyzer wrote: »

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

Sounds ludicrously easy to defend to be honest.

I think Ringrose is the first choice of all the centres, the only question is who partners him.

bilston · 28-01-2019 12:09pm

troyzer wrote: »

There's an argument for an Aki/Henshaw midfield and Ringrose at 23.

No there isn't!

Ringrose is one of the first names on the teamsheet

troyzer · 28-01-2019 12:09pm

AdamD wrote: »

If England's tactics consist of repeatedly running in a straight line we'll have no worries come the end of the game.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Sounds ludicrously easy to defend to be honest.

I think Ringrose is the first choice of all the centres, the only question is who partners him.

I hope you're both right.

If it were up to me, I'd start him but have Henshaw wearing the 23 jersey just in case.

6n 2019 Ireland v England Build Up Thread

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