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Ethnic Revisionism - Mary: Queen of the Multicultural Scots

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    #62
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Agreed but no need to call the op 'pathetic'.

    Yeah, that's beside the point.


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    #63
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Undividual wrote: »
    To take your example, the equivalent in literary terms would be something like a novel containing a Jewish officer in the SS, where no other character makes mention of his religion/race and he acts as any other officer in the SS would.

    Film is uniquely placed for political intervention in this area, unfortunately.

    Thats a pretty low IQ comparison. Low hanging fruit even. You presupposed media exists in a vacuum, meanwhile not considering the context of its creation.

    Inclusion of asian characters in the mary movie might have something to do with its distribution company wanting to pander to asian markets.

    Your scenario could actually be plausible in an alternate reality where the target demographic are jews and a critique of their society


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    #64
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,772 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Undividual wrote: »
    To take your example, the equivalent in literary terms would be something like a novel containing a Jewish officer in the SS, where no other character makes mention of his religion/race and he acts as any other officer in the SS would.

    Film is uniquely placed for political intervention in this area, unfortunately.

    Whatever you think yourself...


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    #65
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Undividual wrote: »
    FunLover18 wrote: »
    IMO it's bad enough that people weren't allowed to rise to positions of power purely because of the colour of their skin without now telling them they can't even pretend to be a person in a position of power for the same reason. Unless it's a true historical drama where race is an important theme or crucial to the story, or you're casting real life people, I don't see the issue. But to limit black people to playing slaves and people in poverty in historical films because they're black doesn't sit right with me.

    Its not for the same reason. To take it to the logical extreme of your argument would be if an actress played a man without any character in the piece commenting on it, or vice versa.

    I don't think that's quite the same, because I don't believe race is as intrinsic to character as gender. For me it would be more like if say in The Favourite they had had a female Tory in the background of some of the government scenes, not playing a man but a woman in a position that would have been a man's in the time of the film. I don't think the black actors in The Favourite were meant to be playing white characters, because it's not that kind of film. And it is kind of for the same reason, it's just that the intentions behind the reason are different. In olden days black people were viewed as inferior by bigots, nowadays you wouldn't cast a black man because you want to be historically accurate (and as I said I'd agree for certain projects), very, very different intentions but the reason is still skin colour.


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    #66
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Thats a pretty low IQ comparison. Low hanging fruit even. You presupposed media exists in a vacuum, meanwhile not considering the context of its creation.

    Inclusion of asian characters in the mary movie might have something to do with its distribution company wanting to pander to asian markets.

    Your scenario could actually be plausible in an alternate reality where the target demographic are jews and a critique of their society

    Stick that in your PhD.

    Are you saying that including Asian actresses for non-Asian roles is fine so long as its aimed at an Asian market?
    Do you think that Asian people want to see a movie with effectively an Asian extra, with less than 10 lines throughout the movie?
    Do you think that Hollywood today makes movies aimed at one market alone?

    It wouldn't be plausible even in that scenario, as I've already said that all the characters act as if the person was not Jewish. My example was specifically not for an alternative reality. I'm not sure you understood my point.


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    #67
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    I don't think that's quite the same, because I don't believe race is as intrinsic to character as gender. For me it would be more like if say in The Favourite they had had a female Tory in the background of some of the government scenes, not playing a man but a woman in a position that would have been a man's in the time of the film. I don't think the black actors in The Favourite were meant to be playing white characters, because it's not that kind of film. And it is kind of for the same reason, it's just that the intentions behind the reason are different. In olden days black people were viewed as inferior by bigots, nowadays you wouldn't cast a black man because you want to be historically accurate (and as I said I'd agree for certain projects), very, very different intentions but the reason is still skin colour.

    In olden days women were supposedly viewed as inferior. Having a female Tory in the background basically introduces the glass ceiling as a side theme. Again, this adds unnecessary (and potentially confusing) elements. How does it add to the story of three main characters who are all powerful women already?


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    #68
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Undividual wrote: »
    Stick that in your PhD.

    Are you saying that including Asian actresses for non-Asian roles is fine so long as its aimed at an Asian market?
    Do you think that Asian people want to see a movie with effectively an Asian extra, with less than 10 lines throughout the movie?
    Do you think that Hollywood today makes movies aimed at one market alone?

    It wouldn't be plausible even in that scenario, as I've already said that all the characters act as if the person was not Jewish. My example was specifically not for an alternative reality. I'm not sure you understood my point.

    Thats because your ‘points’ are nothing but low IQ mental gymnastics that masks the fact that you didnt like seeing brown people in a throwaway movie.

    You’re asking non-congruent questions that i never contested, which i may or may not agree on, that leads to ambiguation of the original point (that someone made this thread because they hated brown people in movies) that might lead to fooling someone into agreeing that tenuous first act by virtue of leading them on

    which works for afterhours but a lawyer friend of mine has spoiled me to these methods

    Hence why im spelling it out for you.

    Movies are no longer eurocentric. The fact that a movie about an english monarch has many minorities is one proof of this

    The better question is why that makes you mad


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    #69
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Thats because your ‘points’ are nothing but low IQ mental gymnastics that masks the fact that you didnt like seeing brown people in a throwaway movie.

    You’re asking non-congruent questions that i never contested, which i may or may not agree on, that leads to ambiguation of the original point (that someone made this thread because they hated brown people in movies) that might lead to fooling someone into agreeing that tenuous first act by virtue of leading them on

    which works for afterhours but a lawyer friend of mine has spoiled me to these methods

    Hence why im spelling it out for you.

    Movies are no longer eurocentric. The fact that a movie about an english monarch has many minorities is one proof of this

    The better question is why that makes you mad

    Cool. You therefore have no issue with whites being cast in roles where they never existed in reality?

    And cop yourself on accusing the op of hating brown people. That's incredibly dishonest.


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    #70
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Cool. You therefore have no issue with whites being cast in roles where they never existed in reality?

    C- in debating class.


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    #71
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    C- in debating class.

    All you've done in this thread is slander the op, accuse people of being 'low iq' and come across as an arrogant little turd.


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    #72
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Thats because your ‘points’ are nothing but low IQ mental gymnastics that masks the fact that you didnt like seeing brown people in a throwaway movie.

    You’re asking non-congruent questions that i never contested, which i may or may not agree on, that leads to ambiguation of the original point (that someone made this thread because they hated brown people in movies) that might lead to fooling someone into agreeing that tenuous first act by virtue of leading them on

    which works for afterhours but a lawyer friend of mine has spoiled me to these methods

    Hence why im spelling it out for you.

    Movies are no longer eurocentric. The fact that a movie about an english monarch has many minorities is one proof of this

    The better question is why that makes you mad

    "Word Salad for one?"

    Is your PhD going to be in English? Please tell me its in STEM.

    3x you've mentioned "Low IQ" (Meta)
    2x only for "mental gymnastics" (Not meta)

    Not sure what you're spelling out exactly (or if you can) but interesting that you "may or may not agree" with me on those points. Sounds almost like intellectual aerobatics.

    If you only approach my points as if I created this thread because I hate brown people, you will only come to the same conclusions.


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    #73
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    C- in debating class.

    A+ in Masked Debating Class


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    #74
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    All you've done in this thread is slander the op, accuse people of being 'low iq' and come across as an arrogant little turd.

    Literally not as bad as leading questions lol


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    #75
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Undividual wrote: »
    "Word Salad for one?"

    Is your PhD going to be in English? Please tell me its in STEM.

    3x you've mentioned "Low IQ" (Meta)
    2x only for "mental gymnastics" (Not meta)

    Not sure what you're spelling out exactly (or if you can) but interesting that you "may or may not agree" with me on those points. Sounds almost like intellectual aerobatics.

    If you only approach my points as if I created this thread because I hate brown people, you will only come to the same conclusions.

    ‘I dont hate brown people guys.. i just dont like seeing them in movies (; ‘


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    #76
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Literally not as bad as leading questions lol

    Your trolling is one thing but your slander of the op is really ****ty.


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    #77
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Literally not as bad as leading questions lol

    lol = I REALLY dont even care now!


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    #78
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    ‘I dont hate brown people guys.. i just dont like seeing them in movies (; ‘

    What do you get out of this posting style? It's not clever or funny.

    I admire a good troll but you are just sad.


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    #79
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Your trolling is one thing but your slander of the op is really ****ty.

    K. No slander done here. Dont make a thread about hating brown people on screen then being accused of hating brown people on screen.

    Classic tactic to play victim though


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    #80
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    ‘I dont hate brown people guys.. i just dont like seeing them in movies (; ‘

    That seems like a fair representation of what I've said so far and definitely not a smokescreen to cover up for not having any valid responses.

    :rolleyes:


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    #81
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    What do you get out of this posting style? It's not clever or funny.

    I admire a good troll but you are just sad.

    I Can tell i got to you lol

    But dont worry. Im not a troll. Just someone with a different opinion


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    #82
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Undividual wrote: »
    That seems like a fair representation of what I've said so far and definitely not a smokescreen to cover up for not having any valid responses.

    :rolleyes:

    Atleast you didnt lead questions again lol


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    #83
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    K. No slander done here. Dont make a thread about hating brown people on screen then being accused of hating brown people on screen.

    Classic tactic to play victim though

    No slander done here, until my next sentence.

    Nice moral compass bud. You might think you know I'm a racist, but you only think you know.


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    #84
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    K. No slander done here. Dont make a thread about hating brown people on screen then being accused of hating brown people on screen.

    Classic tactic to play victim though

    But he didn't make a thread about hating brown people. He made a thread asking why brown and black actors appear in historical movies when they would not have done so in reality.

    You know that. So why do you keep accusing him of racism?


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    #85
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Undividual wrote: »
    No slander done here, until my next sentence.

    Nice moral compass bud. You might think you know I'm a racist, but you only think you know.

    This entire thread is you not liking asians and blacks in a movie lol


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    #86
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    I Can tell i got to you lol

    But dont worry. Im not a troll. Just someone with a different opinion

    No you're just a bit of a plike really. You ruined what could have been a good thread with your ****e


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    #87
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    But he didn't make a thread about hating brown people. He made a thread asking why brown and black actors appear in historical movies when they would not have done so in reality.

    You know that. So why do you keep accusing him of racism?

    Ok bud goodnite, i can see youre getting over emotional. Go to sleep, relax


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    #88
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Atleast you didnt lead questions again lol

    I can go back to the ones you dodged last time, if you want? I thought these were the easy ones to answer.

    If you want, I can make them multiple choice?


    "Are you saying that including Asian actresses for non-Asian roles is fine so long as its aimed at an Asian market?
    Do you think that Asian people want to see a movie with effectively an Asian extra, with less than 10 lines throughout the movie?
    Do you think that Hollywood today makes movies aimed at one market alone? "


  • Options
    #89
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Undividual didn't say that he doesn't like seeing black people in film/on tv. Doing so would involve him saying "I wish film and tv didn't have black actors - don't like seeing them" and he didn't say that at all, he said something quite different, so yeah it is sh1tty to say he just doesn't like black people being on the screen.


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    #90
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Undividual wrote: »
    FunLover18 wrote: »
    I don't think that's quite the same, because I don't believe race is as intrinsic to character as gender. For me it would be more like if say in The Favourite they had had a female Tory in the background of some of the government scenes, not playing a man but a woman in a position that would have been a man's in the time of the film. I don't think the black actors in The Favourite were meant to be playing white characters, because it's not that kind of film. And it is kind of for the same reason, it's just that the intentions behind the reason are different. In olden days black people were viewed as inferior by bigots, nowadays you wouldn't cast a black man because you want to be historically accurate (and as I said I'd agree for certain projects), very, very different intentions but the reason is still skin colour.

    In olden days women were supposedly viewed as inferior. Having a female Tory in the background basically introduces the glass ceiling as a side theme. Again, this adds unnecessary (and potentially confusing) elements. How does it add to the story of three main characters who are all powerful women already?

    You're right, that wouldn't work in The Favourite because the story focuses on three women in a world of men, it's not an overtly feminist film but Abigail's rise to power and Weisz's attempts to stop her would not be so significant if we saw a female Tory in the background. It was a bad example on my part but it also actually highlighted my point that there are historical stories that require certain accuracies. The Favourite requires an accuracy to the role of women but race is irrelevant. A black actor playing someone of the upper class neither takes anything away or adds anything to the central story of the three women or the themes of the film.


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    #91
    Undividual
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭Undividual


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    This entire thread is you not liking asians and blacks in a movie lol

    I never realized I was racist til a troll told me so.

    I better go to sleep now, I have some 'pologizin to do tomorrow...

    :(


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