Ethnic Revisionism - Mary: Queen of the Multicultural Scots

Undividual

The WAG and I went to see The Favourite last week and Mary: Queen of the Scots tonight.

Both movies are based in ye olden times. Both were ok (The Favourite was far better IMHO). One thing that stuck out like a sore thumb in M:QotS was the inclusion of black and Asian actors/actresses in prominent roles. The envoy for the British monarch was a black man and her lady in waiting was an Asian woman. Apparently a black actor can play a white historical character though the opposite is problematic.

What was interesting is that these were included without any comment on their race. Effectively, their ethnicities were ignored within the film while simultaneously ignoring the supposed real-life impact such placements would have resulted in. For example, a scene where the black envoy is kissing a white lady in waiting is not commented on for being (what I assume would have been) semi-scandalous at the time.

I don't know if this kind of thing is a response to 'Oscars so White' etc, but it pretty much broke the 4th wall for me. The movie 'A Knights Tale' did something similar but it was much more light-hearted, and thematically it was a timeless story. It seems bizarre to do the same with a historical piece.

'Mary' overall was fairly ideologically inconsistent, with her on the one hand being a devout Catholic and on the other being completely tolerant of a gay man (who wore ladies clothing and had it away with her hubby).

Sonic Youth

It's a retarded concept I agree.

sk8erboii

LOL. Someone actually typed that all out

Reverse snow-flake syndrome.

Dakotabigone

I’m semi erect, am I doing this right?

Sonic Youth

sk8erboii wrote: »

LOL. Someone actually typed that all out

Reverse snow-flake syndrome.

I take it you would have no issue with white actors playing Zulu chiefs or Japanese Emperors?

Undividual

sk8erboii wrote: »

LOL. Someone actually typed that all out

Reverse snow-flake syndrome.

Good "point"

pjohnson

sk8erboii wrote: »

LOL. Someone actually typed that all out

Reverse snow-flake syndrome.

Theres really not much of the old "snowflake" threads in AH these days. Just people offended by everything now.

sk8erboii

Sonic Youth wrote: »

I take it you would have no issue with white actors playing Zulu chiefs or Japanese Emperors?

? Loved the last samurai tbhfam

Undividual

Sonic Youth wrote: »

I take it you would have no issue with white actors playing Zulu chiefs or Japanese Emperors?

I think the best suited actor should play the role. I'm not a fan of white people playing Eqyptians etc.

Cloud Atlas is a good example (or twelve) of where Hollywood gets it badly wrong by assuming that make up can change ethnic appearance.

Gimme A Pound

Yeah fantastic mini-series adaptation of Les Miserables (no singing) on BBC at the moment with Javert, the police inspector played by a black actor, David Oyelowo. He's excellent but doesn't this colour-blind approach lack sense when there are also films revolving around skin colour? A black man would not have been a senior police officer in Paris in the first half of the 19th century.

In The Handmaid's Tale novel also, black people are expelled from Gilead once the regime comes into effect - yet this aspect is disregarded in the television series. It's not a *problem* per se, it's a fictional novel, but it's still not just a vague little detail. Gilead takes the Old Testament literally and black people are The Children of Ham according to some extremely fundamentalist interpretations. I guess maybe it wasn't feasible for such a huge television project to cast absolutely no black people whatsoever.

Undividual

pjohnson wrote: »

Theres really not much of the old "snowflake" threads in AH these days. Just people offended by everything now.

Hang on, are you offended by others being offended?

To be clear I'm not offended, just bemused. A perfectly watchable film was made worse by a politically motivated decision.

Sonic Youth

sk8erboii wrote: »

? Loved the last samurai tbhfam

Any issue with white actors playing characters in a film set in ancient China?

sk8erboii

Francesca Sour Stomach wrote: »

Yeah fantastic mini-series adaptation of Les Miserables (no singing) on BBC at the moment with Javert, the police inspector played by a black actor, David Oyelowo. He's excellent but doesn't this colour-blind approach lack sense when there are also films revolving around skin colour? A black man would not have been a senior police officer in Paris in the first half of the 19th century.

In The Handmaid's Tale novel also, black people are expelled from Gilead once the regime comes into effect - yet this aspect is disregarded in the television series. It's not a *problem* per se, it's a fictional novel, but it's still not just a vague little detail. Gilead takes the Old Testament literally and black people are The Children of Ham according to some extremely fundamentalist interpretations. I guess maybe it wasn't feasible for such a huge television project to cast absolutely no black people whatsoever.

Make a movie about race: Its SJW pandering
Make a movie NOT about race: Its SJW pandering

some people should just admit they dont like seeing brown people onscreen

sk8erboii

Sonic Youth wrote: »

Any issue with white actors playing characters in a film set in ancient China?

What like that matt damon movie?

Who cares legit lol

the real answer is that movies are products that cater to a demographic that is no longer euro-centric. Hence the inclusion of asians and blacks.

I really sincerely do not care

pjohnson

Undividual wrote: »

Hang on, are you offended by others being offended?

To be clear I'm not offended, just bemused. A perfectly watchable film was made worse by a politically motivated decision.

Nope just amused.

Undividual

Francesca Sour Stomach wrote: »

In The Handmaid's Tale novel also, black people are expelled from Gilead once the regime comes into effect - yet this aspect is disregarded in the television series. It's not a *problem* per se, it's a fictional novel, but it's still not just a vague little detail. Gilead takes the Old Testament literally and black people are The Children of Ham according to some extremely fundamentalist interpretations. I guess maybe it wasn't feasible for such a huge television project to cast absolutely no black people whatsoever.

Thank you. This is my new 'annoyance-fact', to be deployed the next time my GF watches that drivel.

Undividual

sk8erboii wrote: »

What like that matt damon movie?

Who cares legit lol

the real answer is that movies are products that cater to a demographic that is no longer euro-centric. Hence the inclusion of asians and blacks.

I really sincerely do not care

You're cool!

Sonic Youth

sk8erboii wrote: »

What like that matt damon movie?

Who cares legit lol

the real answer is that movies are products that cater to a demographic that is no longer euro-centric. Hence the inclusion of asians and blacks.

I really sincerely do not care

Fair enough if you don't care but I think it's pretty stupid putting black characters in historical settings in which they would have not existed for the sake of cheap 'diversity'.

I suspect you would care if a white actor portrayed a historical black person...

Gimme A Pound

sk8erboii wrote: »

Make a movie about race: Its SJW pandering
Make a movie NOT about race: Its SJW pandering

some people should just admit they dont like seeing brown people onscreen

And then there are others who would question white folks being cast as black historical characters in the very same manner.

Nobody said "make a movie not about race: it's sjw pandering."

And of course there's no issue with "brown" people in film or tv. E.g. Moonlight would be pretty sh1t without "brown" actors.

Undividual

pjohnson wrote: »

Nope just amused.

Your amusement offends me!!! WHAT COLOUR ARE YOU!?!?!

Dyr

sk8erboii wrote: »

LOL. Someone actually typed that all out

Reverse snow-flake syndrome.

Typing isn't that much of an effort for grown ups.

whisky_galore

It's a movie, a piece of fluff/entertainment.

If you want accuracy, go watch a documentary, or better still read a book.

sk8erboii

Francesca Sour Stomach wrote: »

And then there are others who would question white folks being cast as black historical characters in the very same manner.

Nobody said "make a movie not about race: it's sjw pandering."

Nah its a thing. Some people refuse to watch true detective season 3 because the lead actor is black, despite the show not even being concered marginally about that

Undividual

Bambi wrote: »

Typing isn't that much of an effort for grown ups.

It seems like English is the problematic part nowadays.

Sonic Youth

sk8erboii wrote: »

Nah its a thing. Some people refuse to watch true detective season 3 because the lead actor is black, despite the show not even being concered marginally about that

That's silly but surely you have the brainpower to understand why putting coloured actors into historical dramas for the sake of ' diversity' is equally silly?

sk8erboii

Bambi wrote: »

Typing isn't that much of an effort for grown ups.

Im so grown up i write paragraphs on boards.ie because i saw a brown guy on the telly

Gimme A Pound

sk8erboii wrote: »

Nah its a thing. Some people refuse to watch true detective season 3 because the lead actor is black, despite the show not even being concered marginally about that

Like who? But anyway, I don't see them here so why bring it up?

I'm loving series three of True Detective, and I love that actor in general.

Sardonicat

Really is it any different to having a blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus as we did in years gone by? I'm not sure there has ever been an "ethnically correct" actor cast in that role.

sk8erboii

Sonic Youth wrote: »

That's silly but surely you have the brainpower to understand why putting coloured actors into historical dramas for the sake of ' diversity' is equally silly?

Mate if we’re talking about ‘brainpower’ surely you’d know the distribution of that movie is going to chinese markets?

FunLover18

I haven't seen the Mary film but I have seen The Favourite, race is not a theme of the film and the diverse actors aren't playing named characters nor do they have any lines. The film is far from historically accurate in terms of clothing and actual history so I don't see why shouldnt play it loose with the casting.

Undividual

sk8erboii wrote: »

Im so grown up i write paragraphs on boards.ie because i saw a brown guy on the telly

Maybe you'll understand when you're a skater man.