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Madeleine McCann

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    #2252
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    retro:electro wrote: »
    There is no proof that includes the parents. So logic would dictate that by default, for now, they are excluded.

    Nothing puts them above suspicion, apart from feelings.


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    #2253
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Nothing puts them above suspicion, apart from feelings.

    Huh? :confused:


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    #2254
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    you cannot rule anyone out until its proven they didnt or couldnt do it.

    Well courts rely on the proof of guilt, not proof of innocence. So, until proven otherwise..
    I know proof doesn’t mean much to some here, but in the real world it’s important.


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    #2255
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,105 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    retro:electro wrote: »
    There is no proof that includes the parents. So logic would dictate that by default, for now, they are excluded.

    No in fairness they cannot be ruled out . They were the last people to see Madeleine alive and as such would be still suspects . Nothing can be ruled out .


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    #2256
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Something Else
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Well courts rely on the proof of guilt, not proof of innocence. So, until proven otherwise, they’re clear.
    I know proof doesn’t mean much to some here, but in the real world it’s important.

    you seem to think that calling someone a suspect is the same as saying they are guilty
    all it means is they need to be looked


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    #2257
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    you seem to think that calling someone a suspect is the same as saying they are guilty
    all it means is they need to be looked

    And you seem to be forgetting that they are no longer “suspect” or “arguido” since 2008.

    Portugal's attorney-general, Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro, said the police had found no evidence linking the McCanns, or fellow suspect Robert Murat, to Madeleine's suspected abduction, and lifted all conditions imposed on them
    In a statement, he said: "The case involving Madeleine McCann will be shelved following the decision by the two magistrates in charge that no evidence was found to implicate the arguidos.
    "Hereby the condition of all three arguidos ceases - and the bail measures imposed upon the same have expired."


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    #2258
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,105 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    retro:electro wrote: »
    And you seem to be forgetting that they are no longer “suspect” or “arguido” since 2008.

    Portugal's attorney-general, Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro, said the police had found no evidence linking the McCanns, or fellow suspect Robert Murat, to Madeleine's suspected abduction, and lifted all conditions imposed on them
    In a statement, he said: "The case involving Madeleine McCann will be shelved following the decision by the two magistrates in charge that no evidence was found to implicate the arguidos.
    "Hereby the condition of all three arguidos ceases - and the bail measures imposed upon the same have expired."

    In the eyes of the law the Mc Canns are still considered innocent . But that would not mean if a new investigation opened tomorrow that they could be ruled out . They would be suspects in any investigation along with other possibilities and other persons of interest


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    #2259
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    In the eyes of the law the Mc Canns are still considered innocent . But that would not mean if a new investigation opened tomorrow that they could be ruled out . They would be suspects in any investigation along with other possibilities and other persons of interest

    Of course. I’m mainly referencing the here and now. Who knows what could happen in the future. But as of now, with what we know today, they are no longer suspect.


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    #2260
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Something Else
    retro:electro wrote: »
    And you seem to be forgetting that they are no longer “suspect” or “arguido” since 2008.

    Portugal's attorney-general, Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro, said the police had found no evidence linking the McCanns, or fellow suspect Robert Murat, to Madeleine's suspected abduction, and lifted all conditions imposed on them
    In a statement, he said: "The case involving Madeleine McCann will be shelved following the decision by the two magistrates in charge that no evidence was found to implicate the arguidos.
    "Hereby the condition of all three arguidos ceases - and the bail measures imposed upon the same have expired."

    that has nothing got to do with whether they would be considered supects in th e future


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    #2261
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    that has nothing got to do with whether they would be considered supects in th e future

    See my reply above.


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    #2262
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,105 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Of course. I’m mainly referencing the here and now. Who knows what could happen in the future. But as of now, with what we know today, they are no longer suspect.

    They are no longer suspects under investigation thats true . But for anyone discussing the case they cannot be ruled out . There simply is no evidence to rule anything out . That is the huge puzzle


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    #2263
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Something Else
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Of course. I’m mainly referencing the here and now. Who knows what could happen in the future. But as of now, with what we know today, they are no longer suspect.

    translation of the relevant 2017 Portuguese ruling.

    Quote:
    It should not be said that the appellants were cleared via the ruling announcing the archiving of the criminal case.

    That ruling was not made in virtue of Portugal’s Public Prosecution Service having acquired the conviction that the appellants hadn’t committed a crime.

    The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.

    It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence."


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    #2264
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Yes, I posted that a few weeks ago. Basically the lifting of their status does not and should not infer guilt or innocence according to the courts. It is just that, the lifting of the status.


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    #2265
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Something Else
    Don't remember this story coming out in 2017. Might be of interest to some on here :)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4467832/Met-interested-proving-McCann-parents-innocent.html#article-4467832


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    #2266
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    How can he say something, when he cannot prove it, or has not proved it

    Quote (Former detective Goncalo Amaral (pictured), who wrote a widely discredited book saying Madeleiene died in the house, has now said he believes Madeleine's body was cremated0


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    #2267
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,879 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    goat2 wrote: »
    How can he say something, when he cannot prove it, or has not proved it

    Quote (Former detective Goncalo Amaral (pictured), who wrote a widely discredited book saying Madeleiene died in the house, has now said he believes Madeleine's body was cremated0

    Easy, he just makes it up and says it. Perhaps a Gypsy with a crystal ball told him.


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    #2268
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    goat2 wrote: »
    How can he say something, when he cannot prove it, or has not proved it

    Quote (Former detective Goncalo Amaral (pictured), who wrote a widely discredited book saying Madeleiene died in the house, has now said he believes Madeleine's body was cremated0


    But there was the dogs that indicated _someone_ died in the aparetment considering no one else reportedly died there.....



    Cremation is not that far fetched considering she's not been found?


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    #2269
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    The same dogs who, on a later case, mistook a coconut for a dead body? Ah yeah great lads.


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    #2270
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The parents did it
    retro:electro wrote: »
    The same dogs who, on a later case, mistook a coconut for a dead body? Ah yeah great lads.

    I saw that said before. Can you verify it? Is it not true they work on scent, not on objects? Can I rub a coconut on a corpse and the dog react?

    If I go in a morgue and remove the corpses and put in a bunch of bananas, is the dog wrong?

    Yes, it is absurd. But who knows?


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    #2271
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    I think what people might not also understand he's writing a book. From a view point not many people have.


    The same dogs/trainer currently hired by the FBI. Sure what would they know......


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    #2272
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Something Else
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I saw that said before. Can you verify it? Is it not true they work on scent, not on objects? Can I rub a coconut on a corpse and the dog react?

    If I go in a morgue and remove the corpses and put in a bunch of bananas, is the dog wrong?

    Yes, it is absurd. But who knows?

    Very good point. And no, the dog would not be wrong :)


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    #2273
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I saw that said before. Can you verify it?

    Yeah, it’s all here..

    http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078055/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2031

    Interesting reading. I’ve highlighted the most pertinent parts..
    Actual Findings

    Despite the “extremely strong” reactions of these top dogs which had been used in the McCann case and about whom the McCann’s persecutors will claim a 100% success rate, the Haut de La Garenne investigation ended with the following headlines:-

    1 After being examined by experts from the British Museum, a fragment thought to have been from a skull turned out to be a piece of Victorian coconut shell.
    2 "Shackles" found in rubble turned out to be "a rusty piece of metal", and there was no evidence to suggest it had been used for anything suspicious.
    3 There was no blood in the cellar, and the bath blood was said to have been found in had not been used since 1920.
    4 The "secret underground chambers" were just holes in the floor, "not dungeons or cellars".
    5 Most of the 170 pieces of bone found in the search came from animals. Three were human and two of these dated from between 1470-1670 and 1650-1950 respectively.

    But yeah.. the dogs would not be wrong... :rolleyes:

    Anyone know why the dog Eddie lost its licence for forensic work the UK?


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    #2274
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭nc6000


    The parents did it
    limnam wrote:
    Cremation is not that far fetched considering she's not been found?

    OK, so who do you think cremated her and where was this done?


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    #2275
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Gas how the”no evidence of an abduction” brigade have no objection to perpetuating the idea that she’s not only dead but also cremated, despite there being even less evidence of that.
    Mad, Ted.


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    #2276
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Something Else
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Gas how the”no evidence of an abduction” brigade have no objection to perpetuating the idea that she’s not only dead but also cremated, despite there being even less evidence of that.
    Mad, Ted.

    Well, generally a body being disposed of is buried, cremated, left out to sea. Like everyone else, I dont know what happened to her body, but despite being one of the most widely publicised missing child, if not most publicised ever, she has never been seen since alive.


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    #2277
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    Well, generally a body being disposed of is buried, cremated, left out to sea.

    What?


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    #2278
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Something Else
    retro:electro wrote: »
    What?

    How are dead people normally dealt with?They are buried or cremated. If someone is trying to conceal a dead body, the bodies tend to be buried, cremated or disposed of at sea. I really can't be any clearer.

    The picking up scent of death by dogs in the MCCanns apartment is a point raised a lot. Personally, I don't think it has much weight as the scent would only be present if Madeleine died in the apartment and lay there dead for several hours. If she was found deceased and moved quickly thereafter, no scent would be found. That doesn't mean she didn't die there, just that she didn't remain there for long if she did.


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    #2279
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    If someone is trying to conceal a dead body, the bodies tend to be buried, cremated or disposed of at sea. I really can't be any clearer.

    Do you have proof of this? What has this got to do with the McCanns?


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    #2280
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    The picking up scent of death by dogs in the McCanns apartment is a point raised a lot. Personally, I don't think it has much weight as the scent would only be present if Madeleine died in the apartment and lay there dead for several hours.

    But.. but I thought?....
    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    the dog would not be wrong :)


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    #2281
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Something Else
    retro:electro wrote: »
    But.. but I thought?....


    You thought right. The dogs have proven track records and for that reason have been used by the FBI. I think it is naive to discredit them totally. An alert would indicate Madeleine lay dead for a certain length of time. A non alert could mean a body was moved before scent developed. Thus, a non alert does not mean no one died in the apartment.


This discussion has been closed.
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