Lunchtime Live with Ciara Kelly [Mod warning post #1]

Howitzer the 5th · 18-12-2018 10:55PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

It sounds absolutely ridiculous to call someone "Minister" instead of their name.

I notice the phrase "Deputy" is creeping in when referring to a TD.

It isnt ridiculous at all. It's standard practise amongst any worthwhile broadcasters. 'Deputy' is also fairly standard etiquette and has been for some time. This casual lack of courtesy and respect to elected officials isn't an affront to decency. It's just bad manners. Would you say Michael D; Leo, Theresa or Donald? No you wouldn't. You'd bestow upon them their title with which they deserve as a matter of course.

Dr_serious2 · 18-12-2018 11:13PM

Howitzer the 5th wrote: »

It isnt ridiculous at all. It's standard practise amongst any worthwhile broadcasters. 'Deputy' is also fairly standard etiquette and has been for some time. This casual lack of courtesy and respect to elected officials isn't an affront to decency. It's just bad manners. Would you say Michael D; Leo, Theresa or Donald? No you wouldn't. You'd bestow upon them their title with which they deserve as a matter of course.

I would actually call all of them by their names. Minister sounds like something our of Harry Potter.

hotmail.com · 18-12-2018 11:28PM

Howitzer the 5th wrote:

It isnt ridiculous at all. It's standard practise amongst any worthwhile broadcasters. 'Deputy' is also fairly standard etiquette and has been for some time. This casual lack of courtesy and respect to elected officials isn't an affront to decency. It's just bad manners. Would you say Michael D; Leo, Theresa or Donald? No you wouldn't. You'd bestow upon them their title with which they deserve as a matter of course.

Yes I would call them by their names. It sounds daft to refer to someone by a title. Journalists bowing to this tradition is a worrying trend of deference to politicians.

hotmail.com · 18-12-2018 11:32PM

Those against political correctness, many on this thread, should surely oppose the using of titles.

Some of the contradictions of the people that frequent this thread.

Utopia Parkway · 19-12-2018 12:50AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

It sounds absolutely ridiculous to call someone "Minister" instead of their name.

I notice the phrase "Deputy" is creeping in when referring to a TD.

Both have been in common usage for as long as I can remember (which is a fair while).

Didn't even know there was objectors out there to Ministers being called Ministers.

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 12:51AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Those against political correctness, many on this thread, should surely oppose the using of titles.

Some of the contradictions of the people that frequent this thread.

There's a difference between political correctness (often for the sake of it) and manners/respect/etiquette.

meeeeh · 19-12-2018 01:15AM

I'm in two minds about this one. In Central Europe there would be no doubt, interviewee would be addressed with some sort of a title (minister, mister, madam etc) and with formal pronoun if it exists. 'Sie' not 'du' in German for example. So it could be my background and I could be a bit more sensitive to it but I do feel journalist addressing politician by name is too familiar. It creates the impression of friendliness and lack of critical distance. There is no point for Yates to overly address them by title because he spent years working with half of them and often in more senior position. But journalists should in my opinion stick to the titles not out of deference but to create impression of impartiality.

sligojoek · 19-12-2018 01:53AM

This is from memory so not verbatim.

I remember a podcast bu Olivia O Leary where she was talking about meeting CJ Haughey for the first time after he was elected Taoiseach. It went something like this.

OOL: Congratulations Mr Haughey.
CJH: Have you no respect for the office of Taoiseach?
OOL: On the contrary, I have nothing but the height of respect for the office. That's why I'm calling you Mr Haughey.

hotmail.com · 19-12-2018 10:25AM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

There's a difference between political correctness (often for the sake of it) and manners/respect/etiquette.

You've just defined political correctness. I'm glad that you support good manners and respect.

Calling someone by their first name isn't bad manners.

hotmail.com · 19-12-2018 10:28AM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Both have been in common usage for as long as I can remember (which is a fair while).

Didn't even know there was objectors out there to Ministers being called Ministers.

It's not really a big issue.

But it seems ridiculous to me not to refer to someone by their name. The colonial hangover of using titles still remains in Ireland.

Howitzer the 5th · 19-12-2018 10:41AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

It's not really a big issue.

But it seems ridiculous to me not to refer to someone by their name. The colonial hangover of using titles still remains in Ireland.

Because they are different. Who suggested it's not an issue? Joe and Mary are ordinary law abiding citizens. No more no less. They deserve respect. However elected representatives walk the leather off shoes in search of votes to try and make change and improve the lot of Joe and Mary. They represent tens of thousands of people, even in rural Ireland. The very basic title 'Deputy' uttered on a radio station is hardly the hangover of British colonialism or some formal deference. What utter stupidity.

meeeeh · 19-12-2018 10:49AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

It's not really a big issue.

But it seems ridiculous to me not to refer to someone by their name. The colonial hangover of using titles still remains in Ireland.

That's not colonial hangover. Most European countries I dealt with (UK, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Italy, Czech Republic...) address people more formally. And it goes both ways, a manager would address employees formally. Communication in Ireland is very informal which is great in a way but when politicans are addressed by name you imply certain closeness and I don't think you want to give that impression as a journalist. especially when talking to ministers.

19-12-2018 01:22PM

all about Ciara again today!! Men stopping her in shops asking "would this fit you"? (probably a creepy rapist man in Ciara's mind )..........then saying "OMG its you!!!!" ........................yeah right yeah right Ciara

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 01:36PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

You've just defined political correctness. I'm glad that you support good manners and respect.

Calling someone by their first name isn't bad manners.

Not when they have a title it’s not.

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 01:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

all about Ciara again today!! People stopping her in shops asking "would this fit you"? (aaarrgh creepy rapist man in Ciara's mind of course)..........then saying "OMG its you!!!!" ........................yeah right yeah right Ciara

Heard that. It’s akin to Lorraine Keane claiming she’s frequently mistaken for Kate Middleton - and yes, she did say that.

meeeeh · 19-12-2018 01:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

all about Ciara again today!! People stopping her in shops asking "would this fit you"? (aaarrgh creepy rapist man in Ciara's mind of course)..........then saying "OMG its you!!!!" ........................yeah right yeah right Ciara

I enjoyed that feature and the text about buying the underwear in Ann Summers was brilliant. S
Maybe I'm just not constantly preoccupied by sexual violence to drag it into every situation and I could listen to radio without hearing men rapists all the time.

i71jskz5xu42pb · 19-12-2018 01:51PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Not when they have a title it’s not.

Yeah but titles are a slippery slope, would you be comfortable using these tiles:

Lord Kilclooney <or any other toff in the UK>
Sir Bob Geldof
Dr Ian Paisley
Fr. Brendan Smyth
His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Alhaji Dr. Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE (also was gunning for the King of Scotland I think)

I realise those are the extreme examples but if I met Paul McCartney I would not call him "Sir", nor Seb Coe, "Lord" and both seem sound enough. Just because somebody has been granted a title doesn't mean we all have to fall into line.

However I do see your point, I'm not a journalist/radio presenter, may be a protocol there that needs to be observed.

Faugheen · 19-12-2018 02:10PM

I like the way people are moaning about Ciara not referring to Simon Harris by the title 'Minister' when the same people whinge when she refers to herself as 'doctor'.

Grolschevik · 19-12-2018 02:26PM

There's also the whole "title as honorific/rank" v "title as job description". I'd argue that "minister" is the latter. Nobody ever introduced Geordi LaForge" as "Chief Engineer LaForge"...

I've had people address me using either, usually mistakenly. In most cases, it's either an attempt to brown-nose or to fish for me to use their own preferred title in return.

I like the (written) policy of the Irish Times, which from memory, goes something like this.
First mention, long job description: "Junior Minister for Troughs and Foot in Mouth Hubert Jarse".

Second mention, "Minister Jarse".

Subsequent mentions, "Mr Jarse".

That's for written copy, though. On radio, I'd have no problem with subsequent mentions using the form "Hugh Jarse".

Utopia Parkway · 19-12-2018 02:33PM

Faugheen wrote: »

I like the way people are moaning about Ciara not referring to Simon Harris by the title 'Minister' when the same people whinge when she refers to herself as 'doctor'.

Well I presume when a Minister is being interviewed he is representing the government so his title is used. I wouldn't think it's expected to refer to Ciara as a doctor outside of a medical situation or as part of her profession. If she's presenting a radio show I wouldn't think it's necessary to keep referring to her as a doctor. That's just me though.

sydthebeat · 19-12-2018 02:36PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Heard that. It’s akin to Lorraine Keane claiming she’s frequently mistaken for Kate Middleton - and yes, she did say that.

LOL she'd barely pass for Kate Middletons grandmother !!

Ol' Donie · 19-12-2018 02:45PM

Faugheen wrote: »

I like the way people are moaning about Ciara not referring to Simon Harris by the title 'Minister' when the same people whinge when she refers to herself as 'doctor'.

And, indeed, when she refers to herself as "Ciara".

hotmail.com · 19-12-2018 03:37PM

I suppose the point is constantly referring to the guest as "minister". Of course it could be mentioned at the beginning, but the repeated usage of the term rather than using their first name just makes the presenter look silly and a suck up.

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 03:43PM

Ol' Donie wrote: »

And, indeed, when she refers to herself as "Ciara".

Donie, are you new here:pac::pac: - 90%+ of all texters to the show start their text off with once of the follwing " Hi Ciara, love the show.....", "Well said Ciara....", "Exactly Ciara!", "I couldn't have put it better myself Ciara...." :rolleyes:

She also starts the show with "You can text Ciara..." - not "You can text the show...." or even "You can text me...."

I've commented on this more than once. It's not accidental or coincidental. All designed to feed her "brand"/ego. Sure people are stopping her in shops now and saying "OMG it's YOU!!!". :rolleyes:

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 03:45PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I suppose the point is constantly referring to the guest as "minister". Of course it could be mentioned at the beginning, but the repeated usage of the term rather than using their first name just makes the presenter look silly and a suck up.

Would you call Pat Kenny a suck up?
Likewise Eamon Dunphy when he was on The Last Word?
Or to go further afield any US journalist when interviewing any US President? Even those that openly despise Trump have the decency to respect the office.

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 03:51PM

On the segment I heard today numerous comments were made about males being "completely useless" at shopping for Christmas presents for their partners and families. Now there are undoubtedly some men who are; but there are many, many men who aren't. Yet all men are labelled thus. It's a tired cliche and similar to the comments expressed on this thread about men's inability to cook or do housework etc. This is an inherently sexist comment and was doubled down on numerous times by the host. She also read out a text saying "it's not sexist to say men are useless shoppers because they are".

If I were to text in to a segment on women drivers and say "it's not sexist to say women are terrible drivers because they are" I'd be labelled sexist. Complete double standards once again.

hotmail.com · 19-12-2018 03:56PM

ButtersSuki wrote:

Would you call Pat Kenny a suck up? Likewise Eamon Dunphy when he was on The Last Word? Or to go further afield any US journalist when interviewing any US President? Even those that openly despise Trump have the decency to respect the office.

Using the titles just seems like PC gone mad. You can't even use someone's name now without criticism.

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 04:07PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Using the titles just seems like PC gone mad. You can't even use someone's name now without criticism.

It's nothing to do with political correctness. She is being rude, unprofessional and neglecting established procedure and protocol in not using their title. In the case of Ciara and the Minister for Health as I said in a previous post to address him by his first name implies a familiarity that could be seen to call into question her political impartiality - which is a requirement for broadcasting (she can vote for whoever she likes, she just can't say this on air when interviewing a politician). I suspect they may know each other given how closely they live to each other etc., but she should be seen to be professional and impartial in such an interview setting. They (politicians) are after all doing her a favour by appearing on her show*, she could at least address them properly. The only exception I can see in this is when the interviewee insists on being called by their first name once the interview has started.

*I'm fully aware that any politician appearing on any show is doing so for their own publicity and benefit, but that's the quid pro quo - they can appear on any show, not just "Ciara's", so she should at least address them correctly.

ButtersSuki · 19-12-2018 04:10PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

LOL she'd barely pass for Kate Middletons grandmother !!

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.independent.ie/woman/my-daughter-gets-embarrassed-when-people-mistake-me-for-kate--29343104.html

hotmail.com · 19-12-2018 06:10PM

ButtersSuki wrote:

It's nothing to do with political correctness. She is being rude, unprofessional and neglecting established procedure and protocol in not using their title. In the case of Ciara and the Minister for Health as I said in a previous post to address him by his first name implies a familiarity that could be seen to call into question her political impartiality - which is a requirement for broadcasting (she can vote for whoever she likes, she just can't say this on air when interviewing a politician). I suspect they may know each other given how closely they live to each other etc., but she should be seen to be professional and impartial in such an interview setting. They (politicians) are after all doing her a favour by appearing on her show*, she could at least address them properly. The only exception I can see in this is when the interviewee insists on being called by their first name once the interview has started.

Rude, neglecting established procedure, to use someone's name.

Right.

Like I said this is PC gone mad stuff. I didn't expect it from the Ciara haters on here.

Lunchtime Live with Ciara Kelly [Mod warning post #1]

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