Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

Mr. CooL ICE · 15-12-2018 1:27pm

vladmydad wrote: »

Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap...

vladmydad wrote: »

Anyone notice the large plant boxes blocking vehicle access to busy pedestrian streets in Dublin this weekend ?
Just another example of the new reality of all this cultural enrichment.

/yawn

If it walks like a duck...

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-12-2018 1:27pm

Bambi wrote: »

That's very true and and proves how flimsy that argument is, that you have to go back to the ****ing Ice Age.

You could have at least had a crack at using the Plantations as an example

One guy did.

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 1:28pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yeh. Not sure if that’s an argument for immigration though, from the point of view of the 2%. Their culture definitely changed.

Ireland’s immigration has been largely benign, although wages have probably been affected at the lower level and there’s been an increase of slum living and challenges to resources. We are probably amplifying the business cycle.

Despite the benign nature of recent immigration that doesn’t support a free for all.

If you look at people as being people and not some "other" then in the long run it all works out. You are proof of that, unless you can trace back ownership of the family farm for 10,000 years.

IsMiseJoe · 15-12-2018 1:34pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Would anyone be surprised to know that there are more American, French, German, Italian and Spanish people here, than Nigerians or Pakistanis? 2016 Census.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

Yugoslavia is on the that list.
Is it possible to still have a Yugoslavian citizen?

kippy · 15-12-2018 1:36pm

I'm a blow in myself. My ancestors arrived with the Spanish Armada apparently.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-12-2018 1:40pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you look at people as being people and not some "other" then in the long run it all works out. You are proof of that, unless you can trace back ownership of the family farm for 10,000 years.

It actually doesn’t all work out, does it? I’ve just given two examples. You just gave one. The north of this Ireland is an example. You in fact have one example yourself of immigration that didn’t bode well for the natives in what is now the US. Jewish immigration to Palestine didn’t bode well either. There are other movements of people around the world which didn’t end up well for the then inhabitants. Sure after centuries the Anglo Saxon invasions into England created England but the Britons and their civilisation ended.

And that fact that in the cases where countries can absorb a few ethnic groups every century or so (and remain the same) doesn’t mean that every form of immigration works.

Again to go back to the centrist position, pure ethnicity is not going to work in modern societies but borders can’t be permeable either.

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 1:43pm

IsMiseJoe wrote: »

Yugoslavia is on the that list.
Is it possible to still have a Yugoslavian citizen?

It's in the category of countries with between 1 and 10 citizens living here. Possibly they came when Yugoslavia was a country, and have not felt the need to declare as Bosnian or whatever since.

recedite · 15-12-2018 1:46pm

biko wrote: »

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/
Country of origin of non-Irish nationals resident in Ireland classified by number of persons, 2016

Lots of yanks and brits

Lots of them are the kids of returned Irish couples who had emigrated for a while.

zapitastas · 15-12-2018 1:51pm

I know a fair few Africans who came here and had children and they speak fluent Irish and have absorbed themselves in traditional Irish culture. Have out irished the natives

engiweirdo · 15-12-2018 1:51pm

Id be surprised if it was 82% in urban areas to be honest. In our daughters class in school 40% of the kids are from "non-native" backgrounds. And even of the ones that would be considered straightforward Irish multiple have one non-Irish parent and even our own kid was born out of the state.

It's not really a problem tbh as the vast majority of especially Eastern Europeans have integrated pretty well and seem culturally similar enough that I wouldnt see any problems. The kids from broadly African backgrounds seem to be doing well and integrating pretty well and engaging with the education system, seems to be ghettoisation in some parts of Dublin but seems to be a feature of Dublin in general for multiple generations, overcrowding and poor planning more likely the culprit.

The "problem" immigrants are.... not so bad here. There isnt really the critical mass of Islamic immigration in Ireland yet to lead to the type of hive mentality that can occurr in UK and European cities. The numbers are small enough and dispersed enough, I wouldnt see it as an issue for this generation at least.

So yeah I'd imagine the numbers are a lot bigger than 18% in a lot of parts of Ireland but it's nothing to be unduly concerned about yet.

whisky_galore · 15-12-2018 1:54pm

News just in. Paul McGrath and Phil Lynott aren't really Irish anymore.

DanMurphy · 15-12-2018 1:57pm

kippy wrote: »

I'm a blow in myself. My ancestors arrived with the Spanish Armada apparently.

?Que Pasa, Cuz? :pac:

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 1:57pm

engiweirdo wrote: »

Id be surprised if it was 82% in urban areas to be honest. In our daughters class in school 40% of the kids are from "non-native" backgrounds. And even of the ones that would be considered straightforward Irish multiple have one non-Irish parent and even our own kid was born out of the state.

There are detailed statistics in the Census, some general ones here.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

It is not good to rely on anecdotal evidence. Some people I know think the country is swamped with Nigerians, where in fact there are far more Americans here.

weemcd · 15-12-2018 1:59pm

It's a tiny gene pool that needed some life poured into it. Look at the gap toothed simpletons of small town rural Ireland ffs.

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 2:00pm

weemcd wrote: »

It's a tiny gene pool that needed some life poured into it. Look at the gap toothed simpletons of small town rural Ireland ffs.

African people love gap tooths.

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 2:06pm

Here are some nice Irish people.

Bannasidhe · 15-12-2018 2:06pm

Bambi wrote: »

2,500 BC? Jaysus just blow ins, :rolleyes:

I've always found this sure-aren't-we-all-just-immigrants guff disingenuous, and the people who spout it usually know it is. Genetically us, the Scots and Welsh are some of the least diverse populations in Europe.

You can argue about whether this is good bad or indifferent but to pretend that the current influx is not unprecedented in its scale and speed? Dishonest in the extreme.

Disingenuous me hole.

People blather on about "native" this and "native" that but when they are called out with a few facts suddenly all this talk about "native" (which is nothing but code for so called racial purity nonsense) becomes disingenuous. :rolleyes:

Yes - the population is more genetically diverse in Continental Europe - due to the fact that it was easy for large movements of people to take place without the need for boats.
Wales, Ireland, and Scotland were - for centuries - economically disadvantaged regions so guess what - people were less inclined to get boats there.

What fecking "Influx"?
Are you referring to all those bloody Fitzgeralds all over the place - bloody blow ins from Wales via France via Norway :mad:

Given that it is estimated that over 5 million people in GB alone qualify for Irish citizenship I would say we Irish are responsible for a large "outflux"

greencap · 15-12-2018 2:08pm

OP.

Did you exclude the traveller population from your statistic?

I believe the travellers constitute an additional 7 percent.

I don't know that you did omit this number.

However, if you did, and given that travellers are Irish then I'll be forced to consider your original post to contain a lie by omission.

If this is the case then you are a steaming sack of sht.

Please cite your statistic OP.

Because I smell horse sht.

CinemaGuy45 · 15-12-2018 2:11pm

For me race does not matter I work with polish Africans many other East Europeans and I get on with all them.

We don’t need welfare tourism or criminals that scum in Balbriggan for example should be deported its a disgrace they were let in to begin with.

We have plenty of Irish scum already without importing more.

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 2:11pm

greencap wrote: »

OP.

Did you exclude the traveller population from your statistic?

I believe the travellers constitute an additional 7 percent.

I don't know that you did omit this number.

However, if you did, and given that travellers are Irish then I'll be forced to consider your original post to contain a lie by omission.

If this is the case then you are a steaming sack of sht.

Please cite your statistic OP.

Because I smell horse sht.

0.7%.

Dyr · 15-12-2018 2:12pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Disingenuous me hole.

People blather on about "native" this and "native" that but when they are called out with a few facts suddenly all this talk about "native" (which is nothing but code for so called racial purity nonsense) becomes disingenuous. :rolleyes:

Yes - the population is more genetically diverse in Continental Europe - due to the fact that it was easy for large movements of people to take place without the need for boats.
Wales, Ireland, and Scotland were - for centuries - economically disadvantaged regions so guess what - people were less inclined to get boats there.

What fecking "Influx"?
Are you referring to all those bloody Fitzgeralds all over the place - bloody blow ins from Wales via France via Norway :mad:

Given that it is estimated that over 5 million people in GB alone qualify for Irish citizenship I would say we Irish are responsible for a large "outflux"

Never mentioned "native", funny that, you quoted my post but seem to be referring to arguments that someone else made.

Sooner or later you'll have to stop being deliberately obtuse and argue your point on its merits, might take a while though.

Billy86 · 15-12-2018 2:13pm

vladmydad wrote: »

But our birth rates are lower so of course Native percentage will continue to decline

We have the highest birth rate and lowest death rate in the EU, no?

Added to that, my girlfriend is Canadian. If we moved back to Dublin and had a kid, that kid would be an Irish native. This would also be true if my partner were Chinese, Nigerian, Indonesian, Brazilian etc, non white and the child was their colour of skin and not pasty white like mine.

Bannasidhe · 15-12-2018 2:16pm

Bambi wrote: »

Sooner or later you'll have to stop being deliberately obtuse and argue your point on its merits, might take a while though.

It will take me as long as it takes you to provide proof of this "influx" you mentioned.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-12-2018 2:17pm

greencap wrote: »

OP.

Did you exclude the traveller population from your statistic?

I believe the travellers constitute an additional 7 percent.

I don't know that you did omit this number.

However, if you did, and given that travellers are Irish then I'll be forced to consider your original post to contain a lie by omission.

If this is the case then you are a steaming sack of sht.

Please cite your statistic OP.

Because I smell horse sht.

Of course travellers are not immigrants. And they aren’t anywhere near 7% either.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-12-2018 2:19pm

Billy86 wrote: »

We have the highest birth rate and lowest death rate in the EU, no?

Added to that, my girlfriend is Canadian. If we moved back to Dublin and had a kid, that kid would be an Irish native. This would also be true if my partner were Chinese, Nigerian, Indonesian, Brazilian etc, non white and the child was their colour of skin and not pasty white like mine.

I think the 82% is Irish born. That said the census does categorise people by ethnicity - another thing we picked up from the US.

greencap · 15-12-2018 2:22pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Of course travellers are not immigrants. And they aren’t anywhere near 7% either.

Can we still get some kind of link to these stats, something, anything to prove they're not pulled out of someone's arse.

Donnielighto · 15-12-2018 2:24pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfortunately we ain't born with parenting skills, it's something we learn, it's a work in progress, include some complicated elements into the equation, such as poverty and inequality, and you ll quickly have major problems. These issues are a true reflection of ourselves, greater society, we re not willing to accept social failures, instead we d rather blame the individuals involved, because, well it's easier to do so, and it absolves those not directly involved.

Personal responsibility extends to parenting. The state can assist but it shouldn't been seen as the first port of call for this stuff.

The back end of the post is wishy washy stuff and absolves the individual.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-12-2018 2:29pm

Lads are we a tiny gene pool of gap toothed inbred wits, or an historical immigrant country?

sdanseo · 15-12-2018 2:30pm

The societal problems caused by minorities are caused by a minority of that minority. A bit of a tongue twister, but the truth.
You cannot tar them all with the same brush.

You can however point to certain areas which are regarded as having been "taken over" by immigrants. This is unhealthy and has to be stopped. It breeds resentment in the local population, exacerbates division and ultimately causes more crime. The state can't stop this happening where people are buying their own houses but where housing is state owned there should be a conscious effort to ensure placement is diverse.

Can you stop crimes by radical islamists by banning the entry of all Muslims to a country? Yes.
Is is a good idea to do so? No.

There should be sensible restrictions on immigration on the basis that there should never be more people coming in than can be successfully integrated. That means spreading the new people, wherever they are from, around the country. Putting 50 them in direct provision in a hotel in Ballygobackwards which has a population of 50 to start with is a mindlessly stupid idea, almost certainly an Irish politician's answer to meeting a baseless commitment to take in X amount with the least amount of spending or effort possible.

dxhound2005 · 15-12-2018 2:30pm

greencap wrote: »

Can we still get some kind of link to these stats, something, anything to prove they're not pulled out of someone's arse.

The Census.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

Where did you get your figure from?

Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

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