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College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

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    #1382
    Neworder79
    Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    Was any consideration given to building a cun-n-cover cycling underpass from Westmoreland St to Dame St under the new plaza? There may be concerns about archiology and antisocial behaviou but it's a relativly short tunnel and work really well in other cities.

    It would be far safer for cyclists and remove some of the transport complexity dogging the plan above ground with converging Luas / Bus / Road interchange.


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    #1383
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Neworder79 wrote: »
    Was any consideration given to building a cun-n-cover cycling underpass from Westmoreland St to Dame St under the new plaza? There may be concerns about archiology and antisocial behaviou but it's a relativly short tunnel and work really well in other cities.

    It would be far safer for cyclists and remove some of the transport complexity dogging the plan above ground with converging Luas / Bus / Road interchange.
    My only cut and cover experience in Dublin was the Tallaght/M50 roundabout, widely considered to have the most punctures per meter in the entire country. Like cycling across a sea of glass.


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    #1384
    Neworder79
    Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    One bad suburban example, obviously neglected by council, should that set the bar on our vision?

    We have an abundance of underground carparks without issue, a well designed and managed cycle way should not be a challenge. It could include modern bike parking station like the Netherlands, and link the plaza to proposed Tara St public transport interchange with some vision.

    cuyperspassage02.jpg

    https://youtu.be/C4INWKWlPkk?t=14

    I've used many busy urban underpass tunnels at Elephant and Castle London, Chicago, Australia and on some of our greenways without issue...but if a cycle underpass scares us no wonder we cant build a metro.


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    #1385
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    What is the advantage of underground cycle way as opposed to surface in this area, where the only competing road users are pedestrians? Surely this will add arms and legs to costs?

    Re Tara st, 100% agree, there was a Celtic Tiger era plan to regenerate the block occupied by Hawkins/Apollo house and in doing so creating a new pedestrian street linking college street to tara st. Current plans for Apollo House seem to lack that vision.


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    #1386
    celtcia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭celtcia


    cgcsb wrote: »
    What is the advantage of underground cycle way as opposed to surface in this area, where the only competing road users are pedestrians? Surely this will add arms and legs to costs?

    Re Tara st, 100% agree, there was a Celtic Tiger era plan to regenerate the block occupied by Hawkins/Apollo house and in doing so creating a new pedestrian street linking college street to tara st. Current plans for Apollo House seem to lack that vision.

    Many Celtic Tiger hidden dragon plans...

    Not offical hot or not?
    This is not going to be smooth sailing again...

    https://www.celtcia.com/blog/judgeme


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    #1387
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I'd exclude taxis entirely. The NTA is moving towards introducing a core of 24hr routes. Taxi ranks should be near major suburban bus stops for onward journeys.


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    #1388
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I'd exclude taxis entirely. The NTA is moving towards introducing a core of 24hr routes. Taxi ranks should be near major suburban bus stops for onward journeys.

    100% agree.

    Given the size and layout of the City,Dublin,in the context of functional Public Transport,currently cannot sustain full accessibility for Taxis.

    Given the numbers of single passenger,and empty "cruising" Taxis which circulate within the much restricted space of the City Centre,it is immediately and constantly apparent that they are significantly impeding the flow of High-Capicity Universally Available Public Transport.

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/taxi-statistics/active-vehicle-licences/
    Hackney Limousine Taxi. W/C Hack W/C Taxi Total

    DUBLIN 34 514 9132 3 1124 10807

    Given that NONE of this 10,807 strong fleet operates to any Schedule,Rota or officially overseen system,the chaos which results may not be that surprising after all.

    REregulation of the current Taxi industry is one potential solution ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1389
    celtcia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭celtcia


    A,B or C option above?

    The truth is they need 3-5 plans.

    1. Temporary road traffic plan.
    2. Plaza plan with option for extensions
    3. Extended plan
    4. Plaza plan with metro in...


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    #1390
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    My only cut and cover experience in Dublin was the Tallaght/M50 roundabout, widely considered to have the most punctures per meter in the entire country. Like cycling across a sea of glass.

    Loads of people use it... are they just lucky?


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    #1391
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    celtcia wrote: »
    Many Celtic Tiger hidden dragon plans...

    Not offical hot or not?
    This is not going to be smooth sailing again...

    https://www.celtcia.com/blog/judgeme

    Hi celtcia,

    Can you please contact hello@boards.ie to see if you need to register as a company / group account. Please don’t post again.

    — moderator


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    #1392
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    celtcia wrote: »
    A,B or C option above?

    The truth is they need 3-5 plans.

    1. Temporary road traffic plan.
    2. Plaza plan with option for extensions
    3. Extended plan
    4. Plaza plan with metro in...

    1. The changes needn't be temporary, the reroute and construction can be done all at once.
    2. Extend it where?
    4. No metro station planned for the area.


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    #1393
    Budawanny
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Budawanny


    monument wrote: »
    Loads of people use it... are they just lucky?

    Its been clear the last few times (before Halloween) I have gone through it going up to the resevoirs.
    but when its bad its really bad.
    still very handy.


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    #1394
    celtcia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭celtcia


    cgcsb wrote: »
    1. The changes needn't be temporary, the reroute and construction can be done all at once.
    2. Extend it where?
    4. No metro station planned for the area.

    Food for thought...
    Not from me...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jyMpXCEqWaY


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    #1395
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Apparently, there's a judicial review of An Bord Pleanála’s rejection is going to take place in the high court tomorrow. I was surprised that I hadn't heard more about Dublin City Council bringing ABP to court over it, as I was full sure that DCC had decided to amend the plans.

    Turns out I remembered correctly, a third party is bring the review.

    It's in the last paragraph of this Journal article.


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    #1396
    celtcia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭celtcia


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Apparently, there's a judicial review of An Bord Pleanála’s rejection is going to take place in the high court tomorrow. I was surprised that I hadn't heard more about Dublin City Council bringing ABP to court over it, as I was full sure that DCC had decided to amend the plans.

    Turns out I remembered correctly, a third party is bring the review.

    It's in the last paragraph of this Journal article.

    The JOURNAL appears to be run by DCC when it suits pretty biased sometimes...

    This 3rd party proxy potentially a heritage jake green based in Brexit Central...

    This project was an absolute mess.
    There's more going on than you can imagine...
    The tip of the iceberg with the titanic...


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    #1397
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Radio this morning said it's going pedestrian as a trial every Sunday in July this year


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    #1398
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Way too conservative. Should be pedestrianized immediately, ban cars from the quays to accommodate buses. Every Sunday inside the Grand Canal/North Circular road should be car free.


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    #1399
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    celtcia wrote: »
    The JOURNAL appears to be run by DCC when it suits pretty biased sometimes...

    This 3rd party proxy potentially a heritage jake green based in Brexit Central...

    This project was an absolute mess.
    There's more going on than you can imagine...
    The tip of the iceberg with the titanic...

    Celtia, are you okay?


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    #1400
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    DCC are going to trial making Suffolk Street pedestrianised over the next few months.
    Its been in limbo as to what was happening it for a few years now. They haven't even got rid of the bus stops, which haven't been used for the past 2 years at least.
    Although it's pretty much pedestrianised in essence already, other than taxis using it to drop off passengers for grafton Street.


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    #1401
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    celtcia wrote: »
    The JOURNAL appears to be run by DCC when it suits pretty biased sometimes...

    This 3rd party proxy potentially a heritage jake green based in Brexit Central...

    This project was an absolute mess.
    There's more going on than you can imagine...
    The tip of the iceberg with the titanic...

    wtf?


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    #1402
    celtcia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭celtcia


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Celtia, are you okay?

    Fine College Green Plaza is going about as smooth as Brexit...

    🤣


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    #1403
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    celtcia wrote: »
    The JOURNAL appears to be run by DCC when it suits pretty biased sometimes...

    This 3rd party proxy potentially a heritage jake green based in Brexit Central...

    This project was an absolute mess.
    There's more going on than you can imagine...
    The tip of the iceberg with the titanic...

    :confused:


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    #1404
    n!ghtmancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭n!ghtmancometh


    DCC have offered no viable alternative route for the huge volume of busses reliant on College Green. That's why ABP refused them. Some of these busses (13, 40, 27) incidentally serving areas without alternative public transport options like North and West Clondalkin, Tallaght etc. The only plan seems to be to ignore the thousands who will be negatively impacted, and funnel the routes down the narrow, traffic choked quays, along with all the other traffic that has been, and will be displaced by College Green ban.

    Using the proposed 'Busconnects' changes as a viable alternative is a misnomer, as it will not be implemented in full until 2027 at the earliest. 'Busconnects' is also wide open to interference by local politicians, which could result in massive negative changes in the efficiency of the proposed routes anyway. To attempt to use it as justification for banning busses (largest people mover in the city) is absolutely ludicrous.


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    #1405
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    n!ghtmancometh wrote: »
    Using the proposed 'Busconnects' changes as a viable alternative is a misnomer, as it will not be implemented in full until 2027 at the earliest. 'Busconnects' is also wide open to interference by local politicians, which could result in massive negative changes in the efficiency of the proposed routes anyway. To attempt to use it as justification for banning busses (largest people mover in the city) is absolutely ludicrous.

    Actually, there's two parts to BusConnects, the Bus route reorg and the Core Corridors project. The BusConnects route reorg is planned to be in place by the end of 2019, start of 2020, and the core corridors are planned to enter construction by 2021. The entire project is planned to be finished in 2027, but massive improvements to the corridors can be expected long before that date.


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    #1406
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Apparently, there's a judicial review of An Bord Pleanála’s rejection is going to take place in the high court tomorrow. I was surprised that I hadn't heard more about Dublin City Council bringing ABP to court over it, as I was full sure that DCC had decided to amend the plans.

    Turns out I remembered correctly, a third party is bring the review.

    It's in the last paragraph of this Journal article.

    Turns out the third party is the Louth Environmental Group, or L.E.G.

    Have to admit, I was not expecting that.


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    #1407
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Way too conservative. Should be pedestrianized immediately, ban cars from the quays to accommodate buses. Every Sunday inside the Grand Canal/North Circular road should be car free.

    How would the residents there who have cars store them from Saturday to Monday if they want to use them on Sundays?

    How would all the people who want to get to places not served by public transport travel? Lets say you live on Goldsmith street and work in the Coombe, and your shift starts at 7am on Sunday?


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    #1408
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How would the residents there who have cars store them from Saturday to Monday if they want to use them on Sundays?

    How would all the people who want to get to places not served by public transport travel? Lets say you live on Goldsmith street and work in the Coombe, and your shift starts at 7am on Sunday?

    That's a 15min cycle, or only a 45min walk, which would be great exercise as well as a non-polluting commute.


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    #1409
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How would the residents there who have cars store them from Saturday to Monday if they want to use them on Sundays?
    Residents control tags, barriers on the canal bridges.
    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How would all the people who want to get to places not served by public transport travel? Lets say you live on Goldsmith street and work in the Coombe, and your shift starts at 7am on Sunday?

    Cycle. You could drive inside the banned area just not enter it from outside, same as Paris. Residents, deliveries and other exemptions could be given a tag.


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    #1410
    stop
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Turns out the third party is the Louth Environmental Group, or L.E.G.

    Have to admit, I was not expecting that.
    Hopefully they won't have a leg to stand on.


    I'll get my coat.


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    #1411
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    buffalo wrote: »
    That's a 15min cycle, or only a 45min walk, which would be great exercise as well as a non-polluting commute.
    Yeah, but what if they were a wheelchair user living in Mountjoy and they have to get to work in James hospital at 10 to 7 on a Sunday morning?!

    The scenarios people fabricate as proof that something can't work...


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