Would you like to attend a housing protest?

Danjamin1 · 30-11-2018 04:12PM

klaaaz wrote: »

Cuba is communist, unlike Scandinavia. What different economic factors are there to the Nordic model that won't work here?

Funny how socialism generally begets communism.

There’s different economic factors between The Nordic countries and Ireland that would have to be addressed before the model could work. I don’t know what they all are, I’d have to do a bit of research in to it to address it correctly, but I wouldn’t be foolish enough to say we can just do that without making any changes or addressing any existing issues before moving to that kind of model.

klaaaz wrote: »

Some of the commentators here are neo-capitalists American GOP style of economics with a hatred of poor people and an "i'm alright jack attitude". They fail to see the stupidity of paying lower taxes while every basic need around them goes sky high so they actually lose out financially, only the wealthy benefit in this system. The happiest societies in Europe with the highest standard of living are in Scandinavia with their brand of socialism.

What exactly is wrong with neocapitalism? You’ve thrown it around a lot like it’s a bad thing.

Danjamin1 · 30-11-2018 04:22PM

Can you imagine the protests if the government announced a flat 50% income tax rate to replace the marginal rate! The same people protesting housing & water charges would be up in arms!!

klaaaz · 30-11-2018 05:04PM

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Funny how socialism generally begets communism.

There’s different economic factors between The Nordic countries and Ireland that would have to be addressed before the model could work. I don’t know what they all are, I’d have to do a bit of research in to it to address it correctly, but I wouldn’t be foolish enough to say we can just do that without making any changes or addressing any existing issues before moving to that kind of model.

You obviously don't know the difference between communism(Cuba, former USSR) and socialism(Scandinavia).

So you don't know what the different economic factors between Ireland and the Nordics are. To implement the Nordic model needs political will and education amongst the neo-capitalists that the Nordic model has worked which benefitted everyone in society not just the wealthy.

Danjamin1 wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with neocapitalism? You’ve thrown it around a lot like it’s a bad thing.

Do you really have to ask that question?? :rolleyes: It's a selfish model of benefiting the wealthy who can charge you tens of thousands for getting sick, no social benefits when things go wrong, pay the highest housing costs in a first world country, the highest childcare costs in the world, educational costs to name a few. Guess you're happy with that!

Mad_maxx · 30-11-2018 06:00PM

klaaaz wrote: »

That's running away from the issue with your hands on your ears. The system outlined int the post is the system that's practised in Scandinavia. Perhaps you and the other's who support the present greedy system need to visit Scandinavia to see the high quality of life they have there under socialism.

For the umpteenth time, the big difference between our tax rate and that of the nordic nations rests at the lower income segment of the population.

If you are advocating a Swedish system, you don't get to cherry pick.

Danjamin1 · 30-11-2018 06:01PM

klaaaz wrote: »

You obviously don't know the difference between communism(Cuba, former USSR) and socialism(Scandinavia).

So you don't know what the different economic factors between Ireland and the Nordics are. To implement the Nordic model needs political will and education amongst the neo-capitalists that the Nordic model has worked which benefitted everyone in society not just the wealthy.

Do you really have to ask that question?? :rolleyes: It's a selfish model of benefiting the wealthy who can charge you tens of thousands for getting sick, no social benefits when things go wrong, pay the highest housing costs in a first world country, the highest childcare costs in the world, educational costs to name a few. Guess you're happy with that!

That’s not neocapitalism, neocapitalism allows for social welfare to aid the people who require support. Capitalism & the free market economy can bring great success but it’s not without its problems, just like any other social model. You seem to think socialism is a perfect model, but the Nordic model is a hybrid model that takes elements of socialism and elements of capitalism, same as Ireland. They just do it better and in a different balance between the two ideologies.

I didn’t say communism and socialism are the same thing btw, I said socialism begets communism. Every communist country is born out of a socialist ideology.

padd b1975 · 30-11-2018 06:02PM

Those Trots are absolutely shameless.

Coppinger is shilling a pamphlet about the evils of capitalism written by Mick Barry that's going to be on sale at tomorrow's march.

klaaaz · 30-11-2018 06:18PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

For the umpteenth time, the big difference between our tax rate and that of the nordic nations rests at the lower income segment of the population.

If you are advocating a Swedish system, you don't get to cherry pick.

The middle and upper incomes tax rates are not the same. It's 56% in Sweden, 60% in Denmark. Ours will be getting lower due to glorious Leo promising more tax cuts so expect essential services to get even more expensive.

Ronaldinho · 30-11-2018 06:28PM

klaaaz wrote: »

The middle and upper incomes tax rates are not the same. It's 56% in Sweden, 60% in Denmark. Ours will be getting lower due to glorious Leo promising more tax cuts so expect essential services to get even more expensive.

Jacking income taxes up will do sfa so long as the administration is piss poor at getting value for money.

BBFAN · 30-11-2018 08:02PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I am all for reducing rents I am not for a reduction in income. The government could easily reinstate tax rebate for tenants. They could reduce tax on landlords and devise a system where that is passed on to the tenants.

Costs went up on landlords when rent was going down. That is what the government did instead. That created a loss that was going to be recouped, They were told this would happen and ignored it as a problem down the road. We got down the road and the government added more expenses to landlords. The only outcome was going to be higher rents. Any €1 increase in expenses takes €2 in increased in rent to recoup.

Incredibly poor support and protection from non paying tenants.

The public don't want to hear about protections for landlords but that is what is needed to reduce the risk that does have a huge impact on rent prices. Three months is the longest a tent should be allowed stay with out paying rent. Never heard a single valid argument why it should be any longer.

This is probably the most sensible post I've seen so far. Where were the protests when the tax credit was taken away for rent?

People who are as they claim to be "in the middle", need to get out there protesting because they're being fcuked over all the time.

Yet, all they seem to do is post on forums like here and the Journal about spongers blah blah blah. They need to get over the fact that there will always be people who take advantage of any system and start protesting about the fact that the average worker in this country can not afford to either rent or buy.

Wheeliebin30 · 30-11-2018 08:14PM

BBFAN wrote: »

This is probably the most sensible post I've seen so far. Where were the protests when the tax credit was taken away for rent?

People who are as they claim to be "in the middle", need to get out there protesting because they're being fcuked over all the time.

Yet, all they seem to do is post on forums like here and the Journal about spongers blah blah blah. They need to get over the fact that there will always be people who take advantage of any system and start protesting about the fact that the average worker in this country can not afford to either rent or buy.

You think the “average” worker can’t afford to rent or buy.

Slightly ott don’t you think?

BBFAN · 30-11-2018 08:21PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Now I know you're on the wind up.

Ignore list for you.

You're so found of ignoring people it's hilarious.

Like "lah lah lah lah". Don't want to hear anyone who disagrees with me.

BBFAN · 30-11-2018 08:27PM

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Can you imagine the protests if the government announced a flat 50% income tax rate to replace the marginal rate! The same people protesting housing & water charges would be up in arms!!

Em, according to the majority on here the people who work don't protest so your theory doesn't really hold water?

BBFAN · 30-11-2018 08:30PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

You think the “average” worker can’t afford to rent or buy.

Slightly ott don’t you think?

No, not ott at all.

The average worker today is struggling to rent or buy. Do you disagree with this?

Wheeliebin30 · 30-11-2018 08:31PM

BBFAN wrote: »

No, not ott at all.

The average worker today is struggling to rent or buy. Do you disagree with this?

You said cannot afford.

Slightly different to struggling.

MarkHenderson · 30-11-2018 09:57PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Long term social welfare payments.
Standard flat rate children's allowance payments per child.
Non payments of rent to council's should be deducted from welfare and/or wages
Etc.

You are talking peanuts there tbh. I read a study years ago about cutting back long term social welfare payments. The study stated that for the increase in crime that would follow as those people who had their welfare cut turned to burglary and other criminal activities it just wasn't worth it. We'd need a massive prison building expansion as well as pouring billions more per year into the security forces of the state.

The fact is as an employer i wouldn't dream of hiring many of those on long term welfare due to a raft of reasons. It's hard i know and i understand the anger behind wanting to cut these long term scrongers but the reality is it's just not worth it.

30-11-2018 10:05PM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

You are talking peanuts there tbh. I read a study years ago about cutting back long term social welfare payments. The study stated that for the increase in crime that would follow as those people who had their welfare cut turned to burglary and other criminal activities it just wasn't worth it. We'd need a massive prison building expansion as well as pouring billions more per year into the security forces of the state.

The fact is as an employer i wouldn't dream of hiring many of those on long term welfare due to a raft of reasons. It's hard i know and i understand the anger behind wanting to cut these long term scrongers but the reality is it's just not worth it.

I’ve said before and will repeat. There are people out there who are unemployable. Mainly through no fault of their own. They lack the necessary skills, social and otherwise, to apply for and keep a job. Yes there are some scroungers, but I would not class all long term doalers as such. It’s to our credit that we have support systems in place for those.

It really saddens me to see people who have the ability to make something of themselves failing to do so but expecting others to support their chosen lifestyle.
How to separate them? I’m afraid that it’d take a better brain than mine to sort that one.

Danjamin1 · 01-12-2018 12:38AM

BBFAN wrote: »

Em, according to the majority on here the people who work don't protest so your theory doesn't really hold water?

Good point ðŸ˜‰

02-12-2018 08:49AM

It would appear that only 10,000 could be bothered protesting. I suppose that it wasn’t a bad turnout given the weather.

handlemaster · 02-12-2018 08:53AM

What was the protest for ? What were the demands ?

Naos · 02-12-2018 09:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve said before and will repeat. There are people out there who are unemployable. Mainly through no fault of their own. They lack the necessary skills, social and otherwise, to apply for and keep a job.

Do they not have access to numerous free educational programs for this very reason? How is it no fault of their own if someone, anyone, chooses not to upskill when there is free support provided?

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2018 09:04AM

handlemaster wrote: »

What was the protest for ? What were the demands ?

Houses for everyone, apparently it's a human right according to one of them who was there yesterday.

But of course the house has to be in the city centre and someone else has to pay for it.

Naos · 02-12-2018 09:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It would appear that only 10,000 could be bothered protesting. I suppose that it wasn’t a bad turnout given the weather.

Kind of just goes to show they don't really care doesn't it - bit of drizzle and they decide not to protest? Come on.

handlemaster · 02-12-2018 09:12AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would appear that only 10,000 could be bothered protesting. I suppose that it wasn’t a bad turnout given the weather.

How many were couples /related so just the one family. Probably much less actually protesting on their single issue.

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2018 09:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve said before and will repeat. There are people out there who are unemployable. Mainly through no fault of their own. They lack the necessary skills, social and otherwise, to apply for and keep a job. Yes there are some scroungers, but I would not class all long term doalers as such. It’s to our credit that we have support systems in place for those.

It really saddens me to see people who have the ability to make something of themselves failing to do so but expecting others to support their chosen lifestyle.
How to separate them? I’m afraid that it’d take a better brain than mine to sort that one.

I remember years ago seeing those who were on welfare out of what was called FAS schemes tidying up the areas and building walls etc, I'm sure it was the same in other areas of the country.

If someone is as you say incapable of getting through an interview and they are fit and healthy they should be made do something like I mentioned above instead of sitting on their arse all day getting free money.

02-12-2018 09:12AM

Naos wrote: »

Do they not have access to numerous free educational programs for this very reason? How is it no fault of their own if someone, anyone, chooses not to upskill when there is free support provided?

Not everyone has the ability to avail of these skills. I’m not saying that every long term doaler is like this, but some are. There are many with undiagnosed disorders who shouldn’t be lumped in with the genuine scroungers.

handlemaster · 02-12-2018 09:14AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I remember years ago seeing those who were on welfare out of what was called FAS schemes tidying up the areas and building walls etc, I'm sure it was the same in other areas of the country.

If someone is as you say incapable of getting through an interview and they are fit and healthy they should be made do something like I mentioned above instead of sitting on their arse all day getting free money.

That would be described as discrimination against the unemployed

02-12-2018 09:15AM

handlemaster wrote: »

How many were couples /related so just the one family. Probably much less actually protesting on their single issue.

Looking at the pictures, they seemed to be mostly political representatives of the left parties. They take any opportunity to canvass support. Even lowering themselves to hold a minutes silence for a man who died on the streets due to his own life choices.

Naos · 02-12-2018 09:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not everyone has the ability to avail of these skills. I’m not saying that every long term doaler is like this, but some are. There are many with undiagnosed disorders who shouldn’t be lumped in with the genuine scroungers.

I don't think anyone is ever including those will genuine illnesses or disabilities when discussing long-term dole recipients in terms of them being scroungers.

02-12-2018 09:16AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I remember years ago seeing those who were on welfare out of what was called FAS schemes tidying up the areas and building walls etc, I'm sure it was the same in other areas of the country.

If someone is as you say incapable of getting through an interview and they are fit and healthy they should be made do something like I mentioned above instead of sitting on their arse all day getting free money.

They still do. However, I don’t like lumping people who have genuine invisible difficulties in with the scroungers.

Galwayguy35 · 02-12-2018 09:20AM

Deleted User wrote: »

They still do. However, I don’t like lumping people who have genuine invisible difficulties in with the scroungers.

I'm not talking about people who have genuine health problems so what are these other invisible difficulties ?

Would you like to attend a housing protest?

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