Would you like to attend a housing protest?

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

The total lack of empathy and compassion on this thread is disgusting but sadly not at all surprising.

May you never face an uncertain future in which you aren't sure if you will have a roof over your head and a place to call your own...

Here's my thought. People who work need housing close, people who don't don't. The free, or near free house should be at the choice of the state, not the benefiting. I read there are 10s of thousands of empty houses in counties without cities. That's where the welfare people should be sent, so people with jobs can buy houses near work.

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

Simple solution, tax the absolute bollox out of rents taken in by American vulture funds that have bought up the place.

Thatll push the rents up nicely :pac: :eek:

Brendan Bendar

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’d rather be fired into space than attend a protest with Paul Murphy roaring through a megaphone about revolution.

The same Paul who is nicely sinecured against the rigors of want.

And the other acolytes Coppinger, Smith, Barry, Kenny will be lurking in the background with spare bullhorn batteries to keep the mob stoked.

I know a lad who games the system big time, and who attends these things regularly..

Gets everything.
Works the black economy
Goes on a city break at an average once a month.
Never short of money

“ Are you going in to the protest I enquired one day”

“Yeah sure “says he,” teach those greedy bas****s a lesson” !

P_1

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Thatll push the rents up nicely :pac: :eek:

Would it? Or would it convince the American parasites that are treating our housing as a comodity that theres no money in it and, to paraphrase the Bull McCabe, be good little yanks and go home?

Seth Brundle

P_1 wrote: »

Would it? Or would it convince the American parasites that are treating our housing as a comodity that theres no money in it and, to paraphrase the Bull McCabe, be good little yanks and go home?

...and nobody else treats it like a commodity?
What's the difference between Irish property market speculators and foreign ones?
Incidentally: Banks more likely to repossess homes than vulture funds
"Little evidence of ‘tsunami’ of repossessions, says expert"
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-more-likely-to-repossess-homes-than-vulture-funds-1.3594003

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and nobody else treats it like a commodity?
What's the difference between Irish property market speculators and foreign ones?
Incidentally: Banks more likely to repossess homes than vulture funds
"Little evidence of ‘tsunami’ of repossessions, says expert"
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-more-likely-to-repossess-homes-than-vulture-funds-1.3594003

All due respect, but using facts like this does nothing to push the agenda.........

PlaneSpeeking

Why, whenever there is some modicum of reality here, the accusations that no one cares come out ??

Seth Brundle

Deleted User wrote: »

All due respect, but using facts like this does nothing to push the agenda.........

What agenda?

klaaaz

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Why, whenever there is some modicum of reality here, the accusations that no one cares come out ??

There is a hatred of the poor here, that's not caring.

VinLieger

klaaaz wrote: »

There is a hatred of the poor here, that's not caring.

No there's a disgust for the endlessly entitled among us.



Within the protests there's a hatred of anyone who happens to be doing well for themselves though.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Why, whenever there is some modicum of reality here, the accusations that no one cares come out ??

Well, when you have descriptions such as ‘scumbags’ being applied to these protestors en masse without bothering to distinguish, its clear a % of posters on here dont give a f**k and/or are actual poverty deniers or maybe even despise those they see as less well off than themselves.

Geuze

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I would imagine the number of people on JSA over 15 months (ie longterm) at a minimum should be readily available?
Also, stats on people jumping from one scheme to the next

Yes, it should be.

Let's have a look:

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/liveregister/

Live Register duration of continuous registration

The number of long term claimants on the Live Register in October 2018 was 82,998. The number of male long term claimants decreased by 12,206 (-19.9%) in the year to October 2018, while females decreased by 6,386 (-15.9%), giving an overall annual decrease of 18,592 (-18.3%) in the number of long term claimants. See table 6 and figure 2.

Also, there are 33,500 people on the Live Register whose previous occupation is "Craft and related".

gwalk

klaaaz wrote: »

There is a hatred of the entitlement culture in this country

fixed your post there chief

klaaaz

gwalk wrote: »

fixed your post there chief

Alot of entitlement from the wealthy here expecting housing, healthcare, childcare, education etc to be cheap when they don't pay Scandinavian style taxes in the first place. And nothing said about the entitlement of bankers who put tens of billions of debt onto the taxpayers.

Seth Brundle

klaaaz wrote: »

And nothing said about the entitlement of bankers who put tens of billions of debt onto the taxpayers.

aah the evil bankers. And in fairness to them, they didn't put tens of billions of debt onto the taxpayers. The government took ownership of those debts. Would you have rathered that we let all of the banks fail?

Furthermore, from your logic, can we take it that you believe the debt had nowt to do with property developers borrowing to the hilt and the frenzy of people borrowing way beyond their means to get themselves a property?
It's always someone elses fault!

VinLieger

klaaaz wrote: »

Alot of entitlement from the wealthy here expecting housing, healthcare, childcare, education etc to be cheap when they don't pay Scandinavian style taxes in the first place.

No people expect to either get the correct level of services for the taxes they pay, which we dont or to then pay less taxes which we also don't.


Also our effective tax rate for middle income earners is far closer to scandinavian levels than charlatans like you ever like to admit especially considering that our higher tax rate kicks in at far lower levels than a similar rate in any scandinavian countries

klaaaz

Seth Brundle wrote: »

aah the evil bankers. And in fairness to them, they didn't put tens of billions of debt onto the taxpayers. The government took ownership of those debts. Would you have rathered that we let all of the banks fail?

Furthermore, from your logic, can we take it that you believe the debt had nowt to do with property developers borrowing to the hilt and the frenzy of people borrowing way beyond their means to get themselves a property?
It's always someone elses fault!

It's the people who bought into the frenzy now living in commuterland and now moaning about overstretching themselves, showing hatred of the poor for their own mistakes, they are here on this thread. The bankers debt which was a socialised loss has to be paid back every year for many years with interest, you know that.

It's the same crowd who moan about high taxes and yet this country has one of the lowest tax burdens for the middle and high income earners in the EU15 band of countries. The indirect taxes directly affect the poor proportionally more than the middle and high income earners.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's my thought. People who work need housing close, people who don't don't.

actually, people who work don't "need" housing close, they want it close. however, sometimes that cannot be delivered, and that is perfectly fair. wellfare recipients rarely get housing close to where they want anyway but quite rightly, if they are from a particular county or city they will be housed in that specific area because that is where is best to deal with them.

Deleted User wrote: »

The free, or near free house should be at the choice of the state, not the benefiting.

that is already the case effectively.

Deleted User wrote: »

I read there are 10s of thousands of empty houses in counties without cities. That's where the welfare people should be sent, so people with jobs can buy houses near work.

it is not the job of counties with no cities to become effectively dumping grounds for wellfare recipients. the current situation of wellfare recipients existing in various areas mixing with different types of people both in cities and outside is the correct and just option. we know the long term problems brought to some areas when we more or less tried what you suggested.
also, it is quite likely that working people would still not be able to afford to buy the houses near where they work, after all there will still be large scale competition for those houses, and houses near or in a city will still cost much much more to buy then away from the city. it isn't social tenants making the prices high, it is the housing market and the lack of competition to the private rental market along with various taxes and other stuff that are making prices unaffordible with the government trying to avoid the issue.

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

No there's a disgust for the endlessly entitled among us.

who are in a very tiny minority, yet who are more or less used by some to deny that there is a housing issue or any issue for that matter. entitled people exist, they will always exist. they exist across the board, they are not unique to 1 class or race or unique to wellfare recipients.

VinLieger wrote: »

Within the protests there's a hatred of anyone who happens to be doing well for themselves though.

as a whole, no . by some, sure. but you will always get that. doesn't change the reality there is a problem of affordibility of housing in ireland which is effecting many many people across the board.

Seth Brundle

klaaaz wrote: »

It's the people who bought into the frenzy now living in commuterland and now moaning about overstretching themselves, showing hatred of the poor for their own mistakes, they are here on this thread. The bankers debt which was a socialised loss has to be paid back every year for many years with interest, you know that.

I think most people regardless of income abhor the entitlement culture that exists.
Furthermore, I don't recall anyone being critical of the poor - sorry to burst your myopic little socialist bubble!

klaaaz wrote: »

It's the same crowd who moan about high taxes and yet this country has one of the lowest tax burdens for the middle and high income earners in the EU15 band of countries. The indirect taxes directly affect the poor proportionally more than the middle and high income earners.

Given how many low earners are not in the tax bracket, I assume that this country also has one of the lowest tax burdens for lower income earners in the EU15 band of countries.
In terms of the effect of indirect taxes on the poor, is this any different to the rest of Europe?

Danjamin1

end of the road wrote: »

doesn't change the reality there is a problem of affordibility of housing in ireland which is effecting many many people across the board.

Correction: there is a problem of affordability & supply of housing for purchase & rental in Dublin, not in Ireland. There's another issue in rural Ireland where communities are dwindling & dying with services being reduced due to a diminishing population.

end of the road

Seth Brundle wrote: »

aah the evil bankers. And in fairness to them, they didn't put tens of billions of debt onto the taxpayers. The government took ownership of those debts. Would you have rathered that we let all of the banks fail?

in a way, i think yes . it would have sent a clear message that banks being irresponsible will not under any circumstances be tolerated. absolutely we would have probably been a lot worse off in the short to medium term, but perhapse long term we may have been better off.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Furthermore, from your logic, can we take it that you believe the debt had nowt to do with property developers borrowing to the hilt and the frenzy of people borrowing way beyond their means to get themselves a property?
It's always someone elses fault!

of course it did. banks borrowers and many others were responsible. however i do tend to put that little bit more responsibility on the banks, as i believe that given they are lenders, it is their duty to be responsible and careful as to who they lend out to.

klaaaz

VinLieger wrote: »

No people expect to either get the correct level of services for the taxes they pay, which we dont or to then pay less taxes which we also don't.

Also our effective tax rate for middle income earners is far closer to scandinavian levels than charlatans like you ever like to admit especially considering that our higher tax rate kicks in at far lower levels than a similar rate in any scandinavian countries

Imagine living in Sweden with a much fairer tax system. A 56% marginal tax rate brings it benefits https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/
As many here are living in their ignorant ivory towers and won't read the link , i'll quote some of it..

In Sweden, parents are entitled to 480 days of paid parental leave when a child is born or adopted
Aside from paid leave, the government provides an additional monthly child allowance (barnbidrag) until a child reaches the age of 16. This allowance is SEK 1,050 per month per child (2015), money parents can use to help with the costs of caring for their children
You can send your child to preschool (förskola) for a maximum cost of SEK 1,287 per month, so many families choose to use their monthly child allowance to help offset this cost.
Healthcare (including dental care) is essentially free in Sweden until the age of 20, although it depends slightly on the county. Infants get free Vitamin D drops until the age of two – important in Sweden’s cold climate.

From the age of 20, a visit to the doctor will cost you between SEK 100 and 300, depending on where you live, while a specialist consultation costs a maximum of SEK 400.

If you're paying here 1,200 per child per month on childcare, that's about 120 euro per month in Sweden, a saving of nearly 1,100 per month per child so about a saving of 13.2k pa per child.

Together with free schooling, universal free healthcare(GP fee maybe 10-20 euro), you'd save thousands of euro more.

All these rewards happen when the middle and high income earners pay their fair share of tax in Sweden unlike here.

end of the road

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Correction: there is a problem of affordability & supply of housing for purchase & rental in Dublin, not in Ireland.

it's not just dublin effected.

Danjamin1 wrote: »

There's another issue in rural Ireland where communities are dwindling & dying with services being reduced due to a diminishing population.

rural communities are dwindling and dying because there is nothing to keep them alive. companies creating jobs want to create them in the cities where there is the population and large scale choice of candidates, and therefore the people will go to the cities because that is where the jobs are. yes it's unfortunate but it's reality and it is likely going to continue.
i'd be surprised if it didn't cost a much much bigger some of money to try and replenish rural communities or stop them from dying, then it would to build housing near or in the cities.

VinLieger

klaaaz wrote: »

All these rewards happen when the middle and high income earners pay their fair share of tax in Sweden unlike here.

Hilarious, the minority of 22% of workers on the higher tax bracket ie the middle and high income earners in Ireland are already paying the vast majority of income taxes which would reasonably be called their fair share.


In fact it is estimated in 2018 that around 700,000 will pay NO USC and 1 million workers will pay NO Income tax


Now whos not paying their fair share again?

Also stop pushing the nordic model when its been acknowledged by all from either side of the political spectrum that such a tax system could never realistically work here as our public service is too encumbered by unions, mismanagement and endless red tape to give us anything close to the benefits sweden have under a similar tax regime.

The only possible way such a change could work is by burning the whole thing to the ground and starting again or is that what you are calling for?

klaaaz

klaaaz wrote: »

There is a hatred of the poor here, that's not caring.

According to some homeless and other charities, there are many thousands of us living in poverty. My family included. However, I don’t see myself as poor. I’ve always lived within my means. My children didn’t go without EVER, let alone at Christmas. They learned the difference between what they needed and what they wanted. I don’t live beside my job, shops or family.

We CARE for each other and are rightly peed off when we see others expecting to be handed pretty much for nothing what they could provide for themselves.

Danjamin1

end of the road wrote: »

it's not just dublin effected.

The whole protest seems to be focused on Dublin which is understandable given it's the capital & centre of Government but you don't seem to hear much about people illegally occupying vacant properties around the rest of the country. In fact you generally don't hear anything about this issue in the rest of the country so forgive me for thinking it's a Dublin problem. I have yet to hear a story about the single mother (funnily enough there's never a father mentioned) in Longford who's being put out on the streets or who can't find suitable affordable acommodation. I am open to correction on this of course.

end of the road wrote: »

rural communities are dwindling and dying because there is nothing to keep them alive. companies creating jobs want to create them in the cities where there is the population and large scale choice of candidates, and therefore the people will go to the cities because that is where the jobs are. yes it's unfortunate but it's reality and it is likely going to continue.
i'd be surprised if it didn't cost a much much bigger some of money to try and replenish rural communities or stop them from dying, then it would to build housing near or in the cities.

Funnily enough I agree with you on this point, there needs to be more incentive for companies to locate outside of Dublin, though specifically how you can incentivise that I'm not sure. Sorting out the national broadband plan would be a start.

I think you're right either way, it's a probelm that is going to get worse before it gets better because there is no easy fix, much like the housing issue. Protests won't get houses built any faster. Everyone in Government is already aware of the issue, one more protest isn't going to make them suddenly figure it out.

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

According to some homeless and other charities, there are many thousands of us living in poverty. My family included. However, I don’t see myself as poor.

A very good point.

Many people who are at-risk-of-poverty [AROP] in Ireland would not consider themselves "poor" or "in poverty".

klaaaz

VinLieger wrote: »

In fact it is estimated in 2018 that around 700,000 will pay NO USC and 1 million workers will pay NO Income tax


Now whos not paying their fair share again?

That just proves my point that 1 million workers and their families are in poverty in this country due to the unjust tax system and exploitative employers which benefits the middle and upper income brackets who themselves "love" paying exhorbant childcare, housing, healthcare, education etc.

VinLieger wrote: »

Also stop pushing the nordic model when its been acknowledged by all from either side of the political spectrum that such a tax system could never realistically work here as our public service is too encumbered by unions, mismanagement and endless red tape to give us anything close to the benefits sweden have under a similar tax regime.

The only possible way such a change could work is by burning the whole thing to the ground and starting again or is that what you are calling for?

Nice cop out, Sweden too has its own layers of bureaucracy but their system works and has proven to be the best. Guess you love for middle and high income workers to overpay by 13k pa per child for childcare, what a warped attitude.

VinLieger

klaaaz wrote: »

That just proves my point that 1 million workers and their families are in poverty in this country due to the unjust tax system and exploitative employers which benefits the middle and upper income brackets who themselves "love" paying exhorbant childcare, housing, healthcare, education etc.

Your beloved Sweden has people start paying income tax at 1600 euro, we dont start paying here till 16,000 euro.


Those same people you claim are in poverty in Sweden would be paying taxes..... ranging from 7%-32% depending on a multitude of factors