Euthanasia

Gael23 · 21-11-2018 12:01am #1

Been following a blogger documenting his battle with terminal cancer the past few months. He lost that battle at the end of September.
More recently his family have posted a clip describing the last few days of his life and to be honest it’s fairly horrific. Things like vomiting so violently it projects up to the ceiling of his hospice room.
An animal wouldn’t be allowed to suffer like that so why should a human being?

Canis Lupus · 21-11-2018 12:05am

Gael23 wrote: »

Been following a blogger documenting his battle with terminal cancer the past few months. He lost that battle at the end of September.
More recently his family have posted a clip describing the last few days of his life and to be honest it’s fairly horrific. Things like vomiting so violently it projects up to the ceiling of his hospice room.
An animal wouldn’t be allowed to suffer like that so why should a human being?

Because religion and politics.

Gael23 · 21-11-2018 12:16am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Because religion and politics.

Should the politics be changed?

AllForIt · 21-11-2018 12:23am

Gael23 wrote: »

Been following a blogger documenting his battle with terminal cancer the past few months. He lost that battle at the end of September.
More recently his family have posted a clip describing the last few days of his life and to be honest it’s fairly horrific. Things like vomiting so violently it projects up to the ceiling of his hospice room.
An animal wouldn’t be allowed to suffer like that so why should a human being?

Because ideologues like SJW's who are the scourge of at least western society object to it for their own self serving reasons. It appalls me the arguments they put forward in objection to it. They would rather ppl suffer unnecessarily only so they feel some higher virtue is being defended which they themselves can feel good about because they are the ones defending it.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-11-2018 12:31am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Because religion and politics.

and corporate welfare.

In the US it's as if For Profit healthcare will keep alive long enough to drain your remaining asses regardless.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 12:35am

AllForIt wrote: »

Because ideologues like SJW's who are the scourge of at least western society object to it for their own self serving reasons. It appalls me the arguments they put forward in objection to it. They would rather ppl suffer unnecessarily only so they feel some higher virtue is being defended which they themselves can feel good about because they are the ones defending it.

Mate what does this have to do with the SJWs?

Jessie Belle · 21-11-2018 12:38am

I believe in choice and that this should 100% be legalised. If I cant wipe my arse, am dribbling like a teething baby and don't recognise my loved ones I give full permission to euthanise me.

Unless I'm pissed. Wait til the next morning just in case.

AllForIt · 21-11-2018 12:53am

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

Mate what does this have to do with the SJWs?

Because imo SJW are driven by ideological values just like say staunch Catholics. It is my belief that SJW's aren't solely concerned with equality amongst minorities but they are a kind of religion that isn't a religion in that they subscribe to ideological values.... to a fault. They are never pragmatic but ideological. This isn't surprising as affiliation to religions recedes in the west so it's a place for those types to go. So I'm saying SJW's are a bit more than ppl who simply defend social minority issues. It's a mentality not dissimilar to that of a staunch religious person which would rather ppl suffer in order to protect their ideological values.

gigantic09 · 21-11-2018 12:56am

Gael23 wrote: »

Been following a blogger documenting his battle with terminal cancer the past few months. He lost that battle at the end of September.
More recently his family have posted a clip describing the last few days of his life and to be honest it’s fairly horrific. Things like vomiting so violently it projects up to the ceiling of his hospice room.
An animal wouldn’t be allowed to suffer like that so why should a human being?

Having witnessed a friend ending his days in in the manner you describe I fully agree with your sentiments. While death by lethal injection is used on criminals in some societies, and seen as justifiable, why is the humane ending of a terminally ill person's (in severe pain) life, such a taboo.lm not afraid to die but I fear dying with no dignity and in a pain that's present through every waking hour.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 1:07am

AllForIt wrote: »

Because imo SJW are driven by ideological values just like say staunch Catholics. It is my belief that SJW's aren't solely concerned with equality amongst minorities but they are a kind of religion that isn't a religion in that they subscribe to ideological values.... to a fault. They are never pragmatic but ideological. This isn't surprising as affiliation to religions recedes in the west so it's a place for those types to go. So I'm saying SJW's are a bit more than ppl who simply defend social minority issues. It's a mentality not dissimilar to that of a staunch religious person which would rather ppl suffer in order to protect their ideological values.

You ever feel like youre shoehorning in your personal politics in tangential topics?

Mate if theres any institution out there against euthanasia its the catholic church.

Ursus Horribilis · 21-11-2018 1:20am

This has reared its head in the UK as well and it's not a Catholic country by any means. I hope that as time goes on, euthanasia will be destigmatised. We all know far more now about the miserable lives and deaths suffered by many people. All because, it seems, there are no other options. I feel strongly about this issue after watching a loved one die slowly and horribly. Around the same time, a family pet had to be put to sleep. It makes no sense that an animal has the right to a quick death whereas a human has to be put through hell before they eventually expire. Palliative care or no palliative care, it's barbaric.

AndrewJRenko · 21-11-2018 7:53am

AllForIt wrote: »

Because imo SJW are driven by ideological values just like say staunch Catholics. It is my belief that SJW's aren't solely concerned with equality amongst minorities but they are a kind of religion that isn't a religion in that they subscribe to ideological values.... to a fault. They are never pragmatic but ideological. This isn't surprising as affiliation to religions recedes in the west so it's a place for those types to go. So I'm saying SJW's are a bit more than ppl who simply defend social minority issues. It's a mentality not dissimilar to that of a staunch religious person which would rather ppl suffer in order to protect their ideological values.

That looks like a strong ideological value on your part.

judeboy101 · 21-11-2018 8:03am

To play devils advocate, there is no way to 100% exclude the possibility that family friends may coerce or influence the process for their own reasons, which may not tally with the reasons of the person being euthanised, hence why i can't support it.

Graces7 · 21-11-2018 8:06am

judeboy101 wrote: »

To play devils advocate, there is no way to 100% exclude the possibility that family friends may coerce or influence the process for their own reasons, which may not tally with the reasons of the person being euthanised, hence why i can't support it.

Thank you,. When they introduced it in Holland it got abused in many ways and still is.

Brian? · 21-11-2018 8:10am

AllForIt wrote: »

Because ideologues like SJW's who are the scourge of at least western society object to it for their own self serving reasons. It appalls me the arguments they put forward in objection to it. They would rather ppl suffer unnecessarily only so they feel some higher virtue is being defended which they themselves can feel good about because they are the ones defending it.

Why blame SJWs? It’s the religious conservatives who object to euthanasia, for the most part. Most progressive or left leaning people are in favour of it.

You need to pick the right target for your anger.

Brian? · 21-11-2018 8:12am

AllForIt wrote: »

Because imo SJW are driven by ideological values just like say staunch Catholics. It is my belief that SJW's aren't solely concerned with equality amongst minorities but they are a kind of religion that isn't a religion in that they subscribe to ideological values.... to a fault. They are never pragmatic but ideological. This isn't surprising as affiliation to religions recedes in the west so it's a place for those types to go. So I'm saying SJW's are a bit more than ppl who simply defend social minority issues. It's a mentality not dissimilar to that of a staunch religious person which would rather ppl suffer in order to protect their ideological values.

What has that got to do with euthanasia?

Essien · 21-11-2018 8:23am

judeboy101 wrote: »

To play devils advocate, there is no way to 100% exclude the possibility that family friends may coerce or influence the process for their own reasons, which may not tally with the reasons of the person being euthanised, hence why i can't support it.

I think I'd be ok with that if it meant that in the vast majority of cases, terminally ill people didn't need need to suffer unnecessarily.

kneemos · 21-11-2018 8:45am

From what I've seen doctors are eager enough with the do not resuscitate forms.

Graces7 · 21-11-2018 8:45am

Essien wrote: »

I think I'd be ok with that if it meant that in the vast majority of cases, terminally ill people didn't need need to suffer unnecessarily.

With good hospice care, they don't.

Spleerbun · 21-11-2018 8:56am

While AllForIt's description of SJWs is absolutely spot on, I do agree it's a bit shoehorned into this topic. SJWs aren't what's holding back euthanasia

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 9:07am

Spleerbun wrote: »

While AllForIt's description of SJWs is absolutely spot on, I do agree it's a bit shoehorned into this topic. SJWs aren't what's holding back euthanasia

Mate his generic definition can fit literally almost any self righteous institution.

Mrs OBumble · 21-11-2018 9:09am

Essien wrote: »

I think I'd be ok with that if it meant that in the vast majority of cases, terminally ill people didn't need need to suffer unnecessarily.

We're all going to die anyway, so what does terminal illness have to do with it - shouldn't we all be avoiding unnecessary suffering?

So how do you distinguish between necessary and unnecessary suffering?

Is the anguish experienced by a teenager with severe clinical depression really necessary? Why shouldn't they be allowed to request a doctor to kill them.

What about an elderly man with prostrate cancer? It's terminal - it will kill him eventually, but only if nothing else does first. What if he has something else non-terminal that's causing him far more suffering than the cancer is - can he request it?

Gael23 · 21-11-2018 10:07am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

We're all going to die anyway, so what does terminal illness have to do with it - shouldn't we all be avoiding unnecessary suffering?

So how do you distinguish between necessary and unnecessary suffering?

Is the anguish experienced by a teenager with severe clinical depression really necessary? Why shouldn't they be allowed to request a doctor to kill them.

What about an elderly man with prostrate cancer? It's terminal - it will kill him eventually, but only if nothing else does first. What if he has something else non-terminal that's causing him far more suffering than the cancer is - can he request it?

I agree with you mostly. But what about someone facing imminent death , should there be a point where a patients medical team and next of kin can decide enough is enough and alleviate further suffering leading up to what is going to happen anyway within a short time?

Graces7 · 21-11-2018 10:16am

Gael23 wrote: »

I agree with you mostly. But what about someone facing imminent death , should there be a point where a patients medical team and next of kin can decide enough is enough and alleviate further suffering leading up to what is going to happen anyway within a short time?

wedges have very thin ends.. One of the cases in Holland was a young professional ballet dancer of 24 who had injured her foot and was told she would never dance again. She requested and gained euthanasia.

You mean something like this ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-23698071

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Care_Pathway_for_the_Dying_Patient

granturismo · 21-11-2018 10:16am

Whats wrong with the youth in asia?

Deebles McBeebles · 21-11-2018 10:19am

What's wrong with Megadeth's 1994 tour-de-force, Youthanasia?

21-11-2018 10:20am

If we could get rid of all the sick, think of all the money we'd save (especially when combined with previous eminent proposals to get rid of immigrants, Travellers and women who don't fit into Dr Strangelove-style scenarios).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzddAYYDZkk

Yours,

the poor oppressed PAYE-paying men in their 30s & 40s of After Hours.

seamus · 21-11-2018 10:23am

judeboy101 wrote: »

To play devils advocate, there is no way to 100% exclude the possibility that family friends may coerce or influence the process for their own reasons, which may not tally with the reasons of the person being euthanised, hence why i can't support it.

This already happens without legal euthanasia.
Legalising it would just shine a spotlight on it and make it more difficult to get away with this coercive behaviour.
But it's a fact that today some families coerce their loved ones into "giving up" prematurely.

It's relevant, but not directly connected, to legalised euthanasia.

Graces7 wrote: »

With good hospice care, they don't.

This is naive.
Suffering takes many forms. Someone doesn't have to be in pain, to be suffering. The indignity and helplessness of being in a hospice bed can be intolerable suffering for some.
You cannot say that "with good hospice care, people don't suffer". It's just plain wrong.

TomSweeney · 21-11-2018 10:59am

AllForIt wrote: »

Because imo SJW are driven by ideological values just like say staunch Catholics. It is my belief that SJW's aren't solely concerned with equality amongst minorities but they are a kind of religion that isn't a religion in that they subscribe to ideological values.... to a fault. They are never pragmatic but ideological. This isn't surprising as affiliation to religions recedes in the west so it's a place for those types to go. So I'm saying SJW's are a bit more than ppl who simply defend social minority issues. It's a mentality not dissimilar to that of a staunch religious person which would rather ppl suffer in order to protect their ideological values.

I agree with you about SJWs and their ideology , but I would have thought SJW would support euthanasia ?

Berserker · 21-11-2018 11:02am

Next referendum of note we'll have here. Think we'll see it becoming more and more acceptable within the next ten years. Cannot understand why it is looked upon in such a negative light.

Ursus Horribilis · 21-11-2018 11:03am

Is a referendum needed for this?

Euthanasia

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