Dublin - BusConnects

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 5:26pm

bk wrote: »

Clongriffin to City Center PDF:
https://busconnects.ie/media/1349/busconnects-cbc1-clongriffin-to-city-centre-final-for-web-med-res.pdf

I've taken a look though that now, and at first blush, there doesn't seem to be anything majorly controversial about it.

There's a couple of roundabouts on the Malahide Road that are being removed, at Blunden Drive and Gracefield Road. Can't think that too many people will lament there removal, depending on the time of day, and direction you came from, you could be five minutes sitting there right now.

The only people that could lose driveways/parking are down where the Malahide Rd hits Fairview. There gardens are pretty small anyway, I'd guess that parking will have to be sorted for these.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:30pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Will there be many bus routes using this bus lane? The reason I ask is the bus set down areas at the bus stops are in line with the qbc as opposed to offset to allow busses not stopping a chance to pass busses that are stopping.
If the bus stops aren’t offset that means busses have to merge into car traffic lanes if another bus is already occupying the bus lane.
Is this not a major drawback?

The D routes will be using this road and they will operate every 4 minutes. They'll be timetabled as one route rather than a series of separate routes and it's a pretty well segregated bus corridor so hopefully bunching can be avoided.

Since all but one of the spines are cross City in nature it all depends on what happens in the city centre. There needs to be bravery when facing down the car lobby.

I notice the drawings include a liffey cycleway.

L1011 · 14-11-2018 5:32pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

To be fair it is relevant where people (particularly in outer suburbs) have existing low frequency direct routes to/from the city and the BusConnects proposals were to replace those with new low frequency connecting services to the spines.

That feature I expect to be reversed in the revised network proposals as it isn’t viable without the infrastructure being in place and having been shown to deliver consistent journey times. People would end up having longer journey times outbound as connections could be easily missed and people waiting 30-60 minutes for the next one.

In that case he should be delighted this is happening first, not whining to get media attention (cause he's doomed at the next election, for other reasons)

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:33pm

Forcing outbound cars onto Aughrim St from Stoneybatter may cause controversy but I'd expect much of this traffic to evapourate given that Blanch to City Centre by bus will have at least 20 minutes shaved off by this.

tom1ie · 14-11-2018 5:35pm

cgcsb wrote: »

The D routes will be using this road and they will operate every 4 minutes. They'll be timetabled as one route rather than a series of separate routes and it's a pretty well segregated bus corridor so hopefully bunching can be avoided.

Since all but one of the spines are cross City in nature it all depends on what happens in the city centre. There needs to be bravery when facing down the car lobby.

I notice the drawings include a liffey cycleway.

If there is to be 4 min frequency on this route, bunching will be inevitable without offset bus set down areas at bus stops. The lack of this is disappointing.

bk · 14-11-2018 5:38pm

CatInABox wrote: »

The only people that could lose driveways/parking are down where the Malahide Rd hits Fairview. There gardens are pretty small anyway, I'd guess that parking will have to be sorted for these.

The controversial bit here might be moving the bike lane off onto Brian Road, though if your heading to the City, that would actually be quiet nice for cyclists IMO, but might not be popular with the residents.

It doesn't look like houses here will actually lose much garden, a small meter or so from what I can see from the map, I don't think enough for anyone to lose parking. Again this looks to be an example where they aren't taking as much garden as they could, moving the bike lane away rather then taking more garden.

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 5:38pm

tom1ie wrote: »

If there is to be 4 min frequency on this route, bunching will be inevitable without offset bus set down areas at bus stops. The lack of this is disappointing.

Bunching will happen regardless, it's impossible to remove completely from a bus network no matter what you do.

Heartbreak Hank · 14-11-2018 5:39pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I notice the drawings include a liffey cycleway.

Bike and bus only:):):)

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:43pm

Nobody seems to have lost much garden in this tranche. The South West corridors will be the real controversial ones. I'd just like to see these things happen asap rather than in 2027.

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 5:44pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Nobody seems to have lost much garden in this tranche. The South West corridors will be the real controversial ones. I'd just like to see these things happen asap rather than in 2027.

Most likely, these are also the ones that will be started first, in 2021.

bk · 14-11-2018 5:44pm

tom1ie wrote: »

If there is to be 4 min frequency on this route, bunching will be inevitable without offset bus set down areas at bus stops. The lack of this is disappointing.

It certainly isn't ideal. It looks like where there is space they are offsetting stops (e.g. on the Swords roads). But not possible everywhere.

A 4 minute frequency would be one of the less frequent core routes.

Having said that, hopefully we will also have the 90 minute ticket, zero driver interaction ticketing and better use of dual doors, all which should help with faster dwell times.

matrim · 14-11-2018 5:49pm

This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:50pm

bk wrote: »

Having said that, hopefully we will also have the 90 minute ticket, zero driver interaction ticketing and better use of dual doors, all which should help with faster dwell times.

90 minute ticket will happen. If you want the short hop fare I imagine that'll still require interaction and then of course you'll still get yanky-doodles asking if this is the bus to guiness and handing over dollar notes as a fare. Or you get the local dope opening their wallet and wanting to go 'to the top of the road'. :rolleyes:

L1011 · 14-11-2018 5:51pm

Lucan corridor does not have sufficient improvements to deliver the claimed inbound reductions tbh. They are reducing the inbound general traffic lanes over the M50 to provide slightly more bus lane there; but nothing to reduce traffic entering the bus lane to go to M50N (if you don't go in early, you don't get in basically) or improve buses pulling away from the Liffey Valley stop eastbound.

They say "cyclists will be diverted" on to the cycling bridge built during the junction upgrade works, but with a bus lane present I could see even more cyclists staying on the R148 than currently!

The stop on the Chapelizod Bypass may assist in acceptance of the proposed route changes, albeit not much use for anyone with impaired mobility. Will give slightly better access to BCFE than currently.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:51pm

matrim wrote: »

This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.

Not an issue if you are an autonomous person who keeps track of your surroundings but alas darwinism hasn't been able to work it's magic in the modern world for some decades.

No detail on Liffey Valley hub is a disappointment.

tom1ie · 14-11-2018 5:56pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Bunching will happen regardless, it's impossible to remove completely from a bus network no matter what you do.

Yes, but you try your best to remove the potential for this hazard to occur in the outset.

bk · 14-11-2018 5:58pm

matrim wrote: »

This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.

Not ideal. But better then getting stuck behind a bus stopped at a bus stop with the on road bike paths.

From the plans, it looks like at least in some of them there should be quiet a bit of space between the bike path and the bus stop, so it should be ok. Though obviously busy city center stops will be interesting.

The bike lane going behind 5 bus stops on Parnell Square East is very interesting!

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 6:05pm

L1011 wrote: »

In that case he should be delighted this is happening first, not whining to get media attention (cause he's doomed at the next election, for other reasons)

This isn’t happening first - this won’t actually physically happen until 2021 or later.

L1011 · 14-11-2018 6:11pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

This isn’t happening first - this won’t actually physically happen until 2021 or later.

He is whining about the announcement order. That's all.

Brian CivilEng · 14-11-2018 6:31pm

Quick look through the Swords road corridor this afternoon, and it does seem pretty positive. One way through Santry may be contentious. I like the way they have relocated bus stops to make transferring from the 17a to buses on the Swords road easier, would have saved me a run this morning.

I guess my only question is how do I get a job working on the detail design?

Podge_irl · 14-11-2018 6:47pm

bk wrote: »

The controversial bit here might be moving the bike lane off onto Brian Road, though if your heading to the City, that would actually be quiet nice for cyclists IMO, but might not be popular with the residents.

It doesn't look like houses here will actually lose much garden, a small meter or so from what I can see from the map, I don't think enough for anyone to lose parking. Again this looks to be an example where they aren't taking as much garden as they could, moving the bike lane away rather then taking more garden.

Back in the day I used to often cycle up the Brian Road route anyway when coming out of town. The one concern I would have is cyclists going into town - it will require adding signals at that junction surely? Otherwise it will be useless.

bk wrote: »

Not ideal. But better then getting stuck behind a bus stopped at a bus stop with the on road bike paths.

From the plans, it looks like at least in some of them there should be quiet a bit of space between the bike path and the bus stop, so it should be ok. Though obviously busy city center stops will be interesting.

The bike lane going behind 5 bus stops on Parnell Square East is very interesting!

You don't necessarily get stuck behind a bus though, as you can still pull out into the traffic lanes to overtake. I am not a fan of cycle lanes going behind bus stops but how much I dislike it depends on implementation - the current example of the off-road cycle lane going behind the bus-stop in Fairview for example is absolutely horrific.

TheChrisD · 14-11-2018 6:52pm

Oh god, these plans in Blanch has the bus corridor running along the north end of the center and to the gigantic cluster**** that is the Snugborough Road junction. What the hell are they thinking...

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 6:56pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

the current example of the off-road cycle lane going behind the bus-stop in Fairview for example is absolutely horrific.

In fairness, the current cycle lane there is absolutely horrific.

It should never have been created really, it's a half-assed cycle lane, where you're dodging ancient, gnarled trees and clueless pedestrians all the way along it. The sooner that length of the cycle lane is updated the better, right now neither cyclists or pedestrians are safe along that length.

Podge_irl · 14-11-2018 7:03pm

CatInABox wrote: »

In fairness, the current cycle lane there is absolutely horrific.

It should never have been created really, it's a half-assed cycle lane, where you're dodging ancient, gnarled trees and clueless pedestrians all the way along it. The sooner that length of the cycle lane is updated the better, right now neither cyclists or pedestrians are safe along that length.

Oh yeah, it is a particularly egregious example (I just use the road). But it just shows how poorly it can go and I don't entirely trust this until I see it implemented better. In general I wouldn't be fond of cycling behind and around a bunch of sleepy commuters at 7am. I'd much rather just overtake a stationary bus the same way taxis do.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 7:05pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Nobody seems to have lost much garden in this tranche. The South West corridors will be the real controversial ones. I'd just like to see these things happen asap rather than in 2027.

The real issue in the south central area (again none of the 14, 16 or 140 are going southwest and nor would the A3/A4 so I don’t know why you keep referring to it as southwest), and indeed elsewhere, isn’t really the gardens - it’s what can be delivered in terms of journey time improvements. The CPOs will cause news headlines but frankly they’re not going to deliver that much in that particular area in my view.

The real problem is the lack of space where buildings are right up against the footpaths (Rathmines, Rathgar and Terenure and Harold’s X) where unless you demolish stuff then there’s little option to put bus lanes in. The only option left is to potentially close routes to general traffic.

That’s going to cause major problems - where is it all going to go?

I just don’t see how they can deliver the journey time improvements quoted.

Today has been somewhat underwhelming in terms of priority measures - don’t get me wrong I welcome any improvement for bus passengers, but I don’t quite see how they will deliver the vast improvements in journey time that they’re quoting.

LeinsterDub · 14-11-2018 7:06pm

CatInABox wrote: »

In fairness, the current cycle lane there is absolutely horrific.

Could be said pretty much of every cycle in the city.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 7:08pm

bk wrote: »

The controversial bit here might be moving the bike lane off onto Brian Road, though if your heading to the City, that would actually be quiet nice for cyclists IMO, but might not be popular with the residents.

It doesn't look like houses here will actually lose much garden, a small meter or so from what I can see from the map, I don't think enough for anyone to lose parking. Again this looks to be an example where they aren't taking as much garden as they could, moving the bike lane away rather then taking more garden.

How would they enforce this - legally there’s nothing to stop cyclists from staying on the Malahide Road instead?

Podge_irl · 14-11-2018 7:16pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

The real problem is the lack of space where buildings are right up against the footpaths (Rathmines, Rathgar and Terenure and Harold’s X) where unless you demolish stuff then there’s little option to put bus lanes in. The only option left is to potentially close routes to general traffic.

That’s going to cause major problems - where is it all going to go?

I just don’t see how they can deliver the journey time improvements quoted.

I mean...that's probably what they are going to do. Restrict or remove private traffic. As to where it will go - some will evaporate, for others traffic will get much worse and there will be 17 reports in the papers about hell for commuters when they really mean private car users while the bus passengers sail past...

The improved times will be for the bus passengers so that is definitely achievable. The question would then become whether the diversions and other measures put in place for cars are actually workable and we will have to wait and see on that front. One possibility is making some of the bus lanes peak time only - it goes against the general ethos but on roads with no other access may be an option. The cycle route around Fairview is, to be fair, a good example of them realising the limitations of reality and coming up with a "next best" approach.

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 7:25pm

I do wonder what ABP will make of all this, what with them not believing in the concept of traffic evaporation, as can be seen in their report on the refusal of college green plaza. Some sections of the corridors will rely on these concepts, and if ABP hasn't updated their thinking on this by the time that the NTA submits them, then it's a pretty bleak outlook, to be honest.

Podge_irl · 14-11-2018 7:27pm

CatInABox wrote: »

I do wonder what ABP will make of all this, what with them not believing in the concept of traffic evaporation, as can be seen in their report on the refusal of college green plaza. Some sections of the corridors will rely on these concepts, and if ABP hasn't updated their thinking on this by the time that the NTA submits them, then it's a pretty bleak outlook, to be honest.

They are taking a reasonably sensible approach in this in terms of going for the "easiest" choices first. If they get approval then it makes less sense to stop the project half-way.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 8:02pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I mean...that's probably what they are going to do. Restrict or remove private traffic. As to where it will go - some will evaporate, for others traffic will get much worse and there will be 17 reports in the papers about hell for commuters when they really mean private car users while the bus passengers sail past...

The improved times will be for the bus passengers so that is definitely achievable. The question would then become whether the diversions and other measures put in place for cars are actually workable and we will have to wait and see on that front. One possibility is making some of the bus lanes peak time only - it goes against the general ethos but on roads with no other access may be an option. The cycle route around Fairview is, to be fair, a good example of them realising the limitations of reality and coming up with a "next best" approach.

There are limits to what can you do outside of the canals in terms of redirecting traffic and especially in the south central area - there isn’t really anywhere for it to go to. Not all of it is going to the city centre remember.

As for the improvements in bus journey times there will be some which I unreservedly welcome, but I just don’t see today’s efforts delivering the level of improvement they are claiming:

Malahide Rd - up to 35 mins
Swords Rd - up to 30 mins
Navan Rd - up to 40 mins
Lucan Rd - up to 20 mins

I certainly don’t believe that they can cut up to 55 mins off the journey from Rathfarnham to the city!

I don’t disagree about the Fairview cycle route but how many cyclists will just keep going the same way as at present? I’m not sure what behavioural evidence would show where cyclists are supposed to stop and cross over the main road to access an alternative cycles route?

It’s not easy - I don’t envy the engineers but I do question ultimately whether the actual targets as outlined in the high level presentations are achievable.

Podge_irl · 14-11-2018 8:46pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

There are limits to what can you do outside of the canals in terms of redirecting traffic and especially in the south central area - there isn’t really anywhere for it to go to. Not all of it is going to the city centre remember.

As for the improvements in bus journey times there will be some which I unreservedly welcome, but I just don’t see today’s efforts delivering the level of improvement they are claiming:

Malahide Rd - up to 35 mins
Swords Rd - up to 30 mins
Navan Rd - up to 40 mins
Lucan Rd - up to 20 mins

I certainly don’t believe that they can cut up to 55 mins off the journey from Rathfarnham to the city!

I don’t disagree about the Fairview cycle route but how many cyclists will just keep going the same way as at present? I’m not sure what behavioural evidence would show where cyclists are supposed to stop and cross over the main road to access an alternative cycles route?

It’s not easy - I don’t envy the engineers but I do question ultimately whether the actual targets as outlined in the high level presentations are achievable.

The Clongriffin and Swords (to a lower degree) are the only ones I can comment on with any real experience. I do have experience of the Malahide road around the Collins Avenue junction - that area was changed maybe 15? years ago (I'm unsure of the exact timeline to be honest). Previously the two lanes of traffic funnelled into one lane by Donnycarney church - this was expanded to make it a bus lane and traffic lane and keep the bus lane the whole way through the junction by taking some pavement away I think. It alone made a 10-15min difference at certain times and I was only coming from Elm Mount - choke points have a huge, outsized impact. The Fariview to Griffith Avenue section with no bus lane can easily add 10 minutes to a journey time at peak. Add the various choke points up and I don't have a huge difficulty believing that we could save that much time.

On the cycle route I agree - without a signal crossing it will not be used at all. With it, it might be used but we will see - it would require have the same priority as the cars coming down the malahide road and I find that unlikely. There doesn't need to be a cycle lane the whole way though - there will be an option for people who want to stay in segregated lanes and other cyclists can just continue in traffic lanes for 500m or so. Not ideal, but at least it shows an element of practicality - otherwise they would need to take a lot of land off houses there. There is no obvious, easy answer to this.

bk · 15-11-2018 12:02am

^^^

The removal of the choke point in front of the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra, just 100 meters of bus lanes had a massive impact on reducing my journey into town. Cut it almost in half!

It really showed me that removing choke points like these can really have massive positive effect. I can't wait to see more improvements like this on my route and see the same benefits being rolled out across the city.

LeinsterDub · 15-11-2018 12:09am

A quick look at the maps and the cycling element of this project seems poor at best. Massive gaps along the routes, lose of priority all over the place.

Qrt · 15-11-2018 12:20am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

A quick look at the maps and the cycling element of this project seems poor at best. Massive gaps along the routes, lose of priority all over the place.

I think it’s firmly Danish style cycle lanes. I watched a video on cycling in Denmark and they don’t have anywhere near the same infrastructure as the Netherlands, they just have large lanes. There’s some major issues with some junctions but I’m sure I’ve seen something mentioning cycling priority. Staggered green phases would make a MAJOR difference imo

LeinsterDub · 15-11-2018 12:22am

Qrt wrote: »

I think it’s firmly Danish style cycle lanes. I watched a video on cycling in Denmark and they don’t have anywhere near the same infrastructure as the Netherlands, they just have large lanes. There’s some major issues with some junctions but I’m sure I’ve seen something mentioning cycling priority. Staggered green phases would make a MAJOR difference imo

It's firmly not. Just look at the maps half of the Clongriffin to City Centre maps half no cycle lanes, partial cycle lanes or shared cycle lanes with pedestrians.

RayCun · 15-11-2018 12:25am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

A quick look at the maps and the cycling element of this project seems poor at best. Massive gaps along the routes, lose of priority all over the place.

Poor compared to what?

Qrt · 15-11-2018 12:29am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's firmly not. Just look at the maps half of the Clongriffin to City Centre maps half no cycle lanes, partial cycle lanes or shared cycle lanes with pedestrians.

Oh those inconsistencies need to be ironed out but it’s a hell of a lot better than what’s there now.

EDIT: just had another look, apart from the clongriffin main street thing that's not great at all, they seem fine (except for the marino thing)? I don't see any shared cycling/pedestrian spaces at all...

LeinsterDub · 15-11-2018 9:06am

RayCun wrote: »

Poor compared to what?

Compared to continuous dedicated cycle lanes

LeinsterDub · 15-11-2018 9:11am

Qrt wrote: »

Oh those inconsistencies need to be ironed out but it’s a hell of a lot better than what’s there now.

EDIT: just had another look, apart from the clongriffin main street thing that's not great at all, they seem fine (except for the marino thing)? I don't see any shared cycling/pedestrian spaces at all...

Go to the bottom of the PDF maps 1—5 have no orange line. Maps 6, 7, 12, 20, 21 partial

RayCun · 15-11-2018 9:22am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Compared to continuous dedicated cycle lanes

And how do they compare to the current cycling infrastructure in those areas?

Heartbreak Hank · 15-11-2018 10:22am

Podge_irl wrote: »

the current example of the off-road cycle lane going behind the bus-stop in Fairview for example is absolutely horrific.

There seems to be a big difference in the bus bypass taper lengths between the Clongriffen and Swords designs. The Clongriffen ones shift very close to the bus stop whereas the Swords ones have decent tapers with good visibility.

cgcsb · 15-11-2018 10:25am

LXFlyer wrote: »

The real issue in the south central area (again none of the 14, 16 or 140 are going southwest and nor would the A3/A4 so I don’t know why you keep referring to it as southwest),

I generally refer to Dublin in 4 quadrants, not 6 as you do, but different strokes and all. I think most people refer to it in 4 quadrants also. I think most cities are referred to this way, it's not a specific geographic term or one based on electoral districts or anything.

LXFlyer wrote: »

The real problem is the lack of space where buildings are right up against the footpaths (Rathmines, Rathgar and Terenure and Harold’s X) where unless you demolish stuff then there’s little option to put bus lanes in. The only option left is to potentially close routes to general traffic.

I think that is dealt with making some of these villages one way for cars. Or if you look at the Blanchardstown route paying particular attention to the old cabra road-Stoneybatter section. There isn't space to provide for everything so the solution sought is that there will be no through access from one end to the other so the roads usefulness as an arterial commuter route for cars is gone and the only cars remaining are local access. This is a decent solution provided it's enforced.

LXFlyer wrote: »

That’s going to cause major problems - where is it all going to go?

modal shift and evaporation

LXFlyer wrote: »

Today has been somewhat underwhelming in terms of priority measures - don’t get me wrong I welcome any improvement for bus passengers, but I don’t quite see how they will deliver the vast improvements in journey time that they’re quoting.

Indeed the changes are depending on one key aspect, enforcement. The 24hr bus lane on the quays is great in theory but most of the time it's full of audis.
We need to move toward a society where rules are actually enforced. Not just in terms of traffic management but also in all aspects of society.

loyatemu · 15-11-2018 11:01am

RayCun wrote: »

And how do they compare to the current cycling infrastructure in those areas?

better than nothing is not an argument in favour of putting in half-assed infrastructure. They should be trying to get it right - there are some examples of well designed cycling infrastructure around (and obviously plenty of international best practise).

RayCun · 15-11-2018 11:19am

loyatemu wrote: »

better than nothing is not an argument in favour of putting in half-assed infrastructure. They should be trying to get it right - there are some examples of well designed cycling infrastructure around (and obviously plenty of international best practise).

just looking at the Clongriffin route, it looks like there are large sections of new, separated cycling lanes on most of the Malahide road

loyatemu · 15-11-2018 11:28am

RayCun wrote: »

just looking at the Clongriffin route, it looks like there are large sections of new, separated cycling lanes on most of the Malahide road

I've only skimmed the docs TBH, I know the Dublin Cycling Campaign have expressed some reservations, they'll be going through the proposals in details.

prunudo · 15-11-2018 11:59am

Haven't looked at the plan in detail and without knowing the routes very well its hard to match up drawings with actual places but there simply isn't enough space to cater for all road users. Is this plan trying to improve the Bus service or the cycle network. There has to be a compromise somewhere because as it is a lot of people are up in arms about loosing their gardens when in reality there should be more ground taken to accommodate everyone.
As I've said in the Metrolink thread, there has to be collateral damage because without it the city will continue to grind to a halt.

riddlinrussell · 15-11-2018 12:12pm

loyatemu wrote: »

better than nothing is not an argument in favour of putting in half-assed infrastructure. They should be trying to get it right - there are some examples of well designed cycling infrastructure around (and obviously plenty of international best practice).

I would argue that the perfect is the enemy of the good, get this large amount of 'decent' cycle infra laid down, fight some battles on points where connectivity in future would be ruined by the proposals, then instead of campaigning for a full cycle route along major corridors, now you're only asking for improved junctions for cyclists to link up "Superhighways" and 'connecting up the last parts of the network' instead of asking for the whole network done at once. Anything that isn't a white line painted on the road is an improvement.

Someone also said they didn't like cycle paths running behind bus shelters, what would you propose as the alternative, bearing in mind the aim of encouraging those not comfortable with lots of on road cycling (and thus not too keen on overtaking buses) to get cycling? They have been deployed to good effect in a number of cycle positive cities so far.

I think my main fear is that if there are just constant complaints from cyclists then Councils/Government will just provide whatever is cheapest while still fulfilling the requirements of 'providing cycling infrastructure', which leads to abominations like this...

RayCun · 15-11-2018 12:53pm

matrim wrote: »

This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.

What is the alternative?
pedestrian - bus - cycle - car?

riddlinrussell · 15-11-2018 1:08pm

RayCun wrote: »

What is the alternative?
pedestrian - bus - cycle - car?

Something like what I have below? Meaning bus lanes are fully segregated and buses cannot enter the mainline traffic (Mainline traffic cannot enter the cycle/bus lanes, but I'd say junctions would be hellish to figure out)

drumcondra-road.png

Remember that cycleway needs to be fully segregated from traffic if you want to encourage major modal change to cycling.

Dublin - BusConnects

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