Dublin - BusConnects

spacetweek · 02-11-2018 10:55pm

I contacted SDCC about the road improvements at Calmount Avenue in Ballymount and the realignment at Parkview on the Greenhills road.
They answered me and confirmed that these will go ahead as part of Bus Connects. They are reckoned to be some of the first BC schemes as they are ready to go from a design point of view.

They will form the Dublin-Tallaght spine.

tom1ie · 03-11-2018 4:37pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

The southwest is not the issue - it is south central Dublin that has the real problems, and I wish people would stop calling it southwest Dublin as it isn’t. The corridors may have routes serving southwest Dublin but it is the south central area that has daily gridlock.

It is the routes through Rathmines, Rathgar, Terenure and Harold’s Cross that suffer the slowest bus speeds in the city by a mile and quite frankly all the tinkering in the world isn’t going to change bus speeds significantly in those areas due to the lack of road space, the narrow villages, and the severe pinch points en route. Add to that the complete lack of any enforcement of existing bus priority measures, delivery trucks parked on clear ways at the height of the morning peak, and peak bus journey times have simply been getting worse every year. They have now reached up to 90 minutes on the 14, 15 and 16 from their respective termini to the city centre in the morning peak, which is scandalous. I don’t think CPO activity will actually make that much difference to bus speeds as they’ll still get hit by the pinch points which aren’t like the cat & cage in any respect before anyone mentions it, as on these routes there are buildings right up to the footpaths. I just don’t see the suggested one way suburban routes being acceptable politically.

The only solution that will make a genuine difference is underground rail.

Tom to correct you regarding adding buses, Dublin Bus have already increased the numbers of buses on those corridors on the 14, 15 and 15b routes all day long, and other routes will be seeing capacity increases in the coming months. It’s needed as buses are already full, but it does mean more buses in the same space.

Agree these areas are at capacity but you’ve forgotten about the areas preceding these, such as, kcr, sundrive, Cromwell fort road walkinstown roundabout, rathfarnham etc. all chock a block at rush hour aswell.

LXFlyer · 03-11-2018 4:46pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Agree these areas are at capacity but you’ve forgotten about the areas preceding these, such as, kcr, sundrive, Cromwell fort road walkinstown roundabout, rathfarnham etc. all chock a block at rush hour aswell.

I haven’t forgotten anything.

Rathfarnham suffers due to the non-enforcement of the bus lane on the north side of the Dodder. Otherwise it has inbound bus lanes which are quite effective.

But the slowest bus speeds in the city are on those two QBCs and they are in the south central area from Templeogue inbound on the Templeogue QBC and the Dodder bridge inbound on the Rathfarnham QBC.

Outside of that area, there is room for improvements. But within it, not much at all other than tinkering.

Qrt · 04-11-2018 1:37am

spacetweek wrote: »

I contacted SDCC about the road improvements at Calmount Avenue in Ballymount and the realignment at Parkview on the Greenhills road.
They answered me and confirmed that these will go ahead as part of Bus Connects. They are reckoned to be some of the first BC schemes as they are ready to go from a design point of view.

They will form the Dublin-Tallaght spine.

Hopefully they actually do the Parkview section, there was an awful lot of idiots misinformed individuals hampering on about their "green space" even though it's worthless dead land of no proper use...not to mention Kilnamanagh is full of green spaces.

Dats me · 04-11-2018 6:47am

Qrt wrote: »

Hopefully they actually do the Parkview section, there was an awful lot of idiots misinformed individuals hampering on about their "green space" even though it's worthless dead land of no proper use...not to mention Kilnamanagh is full of green spaces.

Green Space is far from worthless - compare how you feel walking around a building to walking around a park. Numerous studies show the positive effect it has on quality of life.

Shortened commuting times also have a very positive effect of course. But all these infrastructure projects are about weighing these up, not about dismissing valid concerns from communities that are losing something as "idiots".

CatInABox · 04-11-2018 11:37am

Dats me wrote: »

Green Space is far from worthless - compare how you feel walking around a building to walking around a park. Numerous studies show the positive effect it has on quality of life.

Shortened commuting times also have a very positive effect of course. But all these infrastructure projects are about weighing these up, not about dismissing valid concerns from communities that are losing something as "idiots".

Yeah, I'm a big proponent of green space, but not all green space is equal. A park is something I think should be left alone if possible, but a narrow strip of grass at the side of a main road? No one is going to walk along there and feel better, they're walking right next to a load of traffic. No one is going to choose there for a picnic, not when they can walk to an actual park five minutes away and be away from all the traffic.

tom1ie · 04-11-2018 12:48pm

spacetweek wrote: »

I contacted SDCC about the road improvements at Calmount Avenue in Ballymount and the realignment at Parkview on the Greenhills road.
They answered me and confirmed that these will go ahead as part of Bus Connects. They are reckoned to be some of the first BC schemes as they are ready to go from a design point of view.

They will form the Dublin-Tallaght spine.

Ah yes. This old chestnut. I remember getting a leaflet about 12 years ago from sdcc about the realignment of this road.
There was also talk down through the years from councilors about this job being done.
I just hope they deliver it this time.

Qrt · 04-11-2018 1:31pm

Dats me wrote: »

Green Space is far from worthless - compare how you feel walking around a building to walking around a park. Numerous studies show the positive effect it has on quality of life.

Shortened commuting times also have a very positive effect of course. But all these infrastructure projects are about weighing these up, not about dismissing valid concerns from communities that are losing something as "idiots".

CatInABox wrote: »

Yeah, I'm a big proponent of green space, but not all green space is equal. A park is something I think should be left alone if possible, but a narrow strip of grass at the side of a main road? No one is going to walk along there and feel better, they're walking right next to a load of traffic. No one is going to choose there for a picnic, not when they can walk to an actual park five minutes away and be away from all the traffic.

tom1ie wrote: »

Ah yes. This old chestnut. I remember getting a leaflet about 12 years ago from sdcc about the realignment of this road.
There was also talk down through the years from councilors about this job being done.
I just hope they deliver it this time.

It's worthless because Kilnamanagh has three pretty large fields within, and it beside the pretty huge Tymon Park.

I'm almost sure the plan includes turning the old parts of the Greenhills Rd. due to be abandoned to green space, so there's really not much being lost. The scheme is badly needed. I stand by my original statement – quick look on Google Maps will show how much its "valued", not to mention how token green space areas like this are one of the reasons Dublin suburbs are dreadful.

BonnieSituation · 04-11-2018 9:06pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Bus I was on last night, the 26 took 15 minutes to get from Merrion Square to the Quays. Not one single Garda seen, multiple private cars and vans in Bus lanes, blocking yellow boxes and the College Green Bus gate.
That route has bus lanes for the entire journey but given the lack of enforcement are useless.
Use DB own CCTV, give the drivers a fiver for each infringement they "catch" and forward details to AGS and force them to prosecute.

Wait til you see Merrion Square East to Lincoln Place come a wet Tuesday later this month.

The junction has one of the most ignored yellow boxes going. And guards ever so close at Leinster House...

tom1ie · 06-11-2018 11:37am

Qrt wrote: »

It's worthless because Kilnamanagh has three pretty large fields within, and it beside the pretty huge Tymon Park.

I'm almost sure the plan includes turning the old parts of the Greenhills Rd. due to be abandoned to green space, so there's really not much being lost. The scheme is badly needed. I stand by my original statement – quick look on Google Maps will show how much its "valued", not to mention how token green space areas like this are one of the reasons Dublin suburbs are dreadful.

I absolutely agree it’s needed, but it was needed at least 12/13 years ago when the leaflets were handed out. The leaflets themselves were a reboot of the original plan which had been promised years before that.
My point being, I’ll be very (pleasantly) surprised when this is built and up and running.

spacetweek · 08-11-2018 10:52pm

Dats me wrote: »

Green Space is far from worthless - compare how you feel walking around a building to walking around a park.

Parkview is grassed-over backland with high walls and people's back gardens around it. And Tymon Park, an actual park, is literally across the road.

schemingbohemia · 09-11-2018 11:30am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wait til you see Merrion Square East to Lincoln Place come a wet Tuesday later this month.

The junction has one of the most ignored yellow boxes going. And guards ever so close at Leinster House...

Well, it was a Thursday, 12 minutes to get from the terminus on Merrion Sq South to the Clare Street stop! A distance of about 700m. The main problem wasn't the yellow box it's the fact that virtually all cars were turning right onto Mount Street from Merrion Square East and there wasn't space for the Bus to drive up the left turning lane. They should remove some of the car parking spots there, or turn them parallel to the path to make space for the bus.

It took another 13 minutes to get to the Quays and then only 10 minutes to the Con Colbert Road.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 10:10am

There's to be some announcement today on the bus corridors, at least some of them, the public consultation is now likely to be in two sections. Not clear if these will be northside then southside or some other combination.

Letters have been sent to affected residents. Expect announcement at 14:30

alentejo · 14-11-2018 10:33am

Looks like detailed design for south side routes is pushed back to new year. First tranche of 4 routes cover north and west side of city.

jd · 14-11-2018 10:37am

alentejo wrote: »

Looks like detailed design for south side routes is pushed back to new year. First tranche of 4 routes cover north and west side of city.

The routes are Clongriffen, Swords, Blanchardstown and Lucan.

Qrt · 14-11-2018 10:43am

jd wrote: »

The routes are Clongriffen, Swords, Blanchardstown and Lucan.

So, in essence, the easy ones? (Well relatively, swords and clongriffin aren’t too complicated, blanch one has the stoneybatter problem)

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 11:24am

Blanch will be the most difficult of the north side tranche. The real test of metal will be the south west in the new year. Can't wait to see what's on offer. I see Noel Rock came out again it this morning, you'd think these people have viable alternative proposals.

Also keen to see City Centre progress which was hinged on college green, but now we dont know what.

Heartbreak Hank · 14-11-2018 11:45am

Hundreds to lose part of their gardens in new Bus Connects plan

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 11:50am

cgcsb wrote: »

Blanch will be the most difficult of the north side tranche. The real test of metal will be the south west in the new year. Can't wait to see what's on offer. I see Noel Rock came out again it this morning, you'd think these people have viable alternative proposals.

Also keen to see City Centre progress which was hinged on college green, but now we dont know what.

The real test will be the corridor through the south central area through Rathmines to Terenure, and that through Harold’s Cross to the KCR.

Clearly some of the bus routes along those corridors lead ultimately to south west Dublin but many don’t! I’m not sure how anyone would class Rathmines, Rathgar, Terenure or Rathfarnham as being in south west Dublin?

The core problem area is the south central area where there are numerous pinch points and scope for road widening is restricted due to buildings being right up against the footpath.

Blanchardstown is the only really contentious one of these four today in my view as it may include closing some roads in part or full to general traffic - the other three should be relatively minor changes such as some garden shortening and enhanced bus lanes. Not good for the property owners but less of an impact.

I see that they don’t plan on going to ABP until 2020 with these plans which means it could be 3-4 years from now before they actually see the light of day!

Time for enforcement of existing priority measures and clear ways to be rolled out as an interim measure?

L1011 · 14-11-2018 12:07pm

FF idiot crying about this being proceeded before the route rework is done, as if the corridors are going to change substantively.

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 12:08pm

I see that the NTA have learned from their mistakes with the Metrolink consultation, and have informed those who are to be affected first. That's a welcome improvement, these things are hard enough to do without committing PR errors on the first step.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 12:19pm

L1011 wrote: »

FF idiot crying about this being proceeded before the route rework is done, as if the corridors are going to change substantively.

To be fair it is relevant where people (particularly in outer suburbs) have existing low frequency direct routes to/from the city and the BusConnects proposals were to replace those with new low frequency connecting services to the spines.

That feature I expect to be reversed in the revised network proposals as it isn’t viable without the infrastructure being in place and having been shown to deliver consistent journey times. People would end up having longer journey times outbound as connections could be easily missed and people waiting 30-60 minutes for the next one.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 12:49pm

why no Ballymun/Finglas in this tranche?

Witworth road can be contentious. Also there will be some slight rabble in fairview. Other than that, all eyes on Blanch.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 1:11pm

cgcsb wrote: »

why no Ballymun/Finglas in this tranche?

Witworth road can be contentious. Also there will be some slight rabble in fairview. Other than that, all eyes on Blanch.

Presumably they’re going to release them in batches - being honest that makes more sense as it allows for more focussed responses.

prunudo · 14-11-2018 1:58pm

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

Hundreds to lose part of their gardens in new Bus Connects plan

Its good to see the Independent out with their positive spin on public infrastructure as usual

tom1ie · 14-11-2018 2:12pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

The real test will be the corridor through the south central area through Rathmines to Terenure, and that through Harold’s Cross to the KCR.

Clearly some of the bus routes along those corridors lead ultimately to south west Dublin but many don’t! I’m not sure how anyone would class Rathmines, Rathgar, Terenure or Rathfarnham as being in south west Dublin?

The core problem area is the south central area where there are numerous pinch points and scope for road widening is restricted due to buildings being right up against the footpath.

Blanchardstown is the only really contentious one of these four today in my view as it may include closing some roads in part or full to general traffic - the other three should be relatively minor changes such as some garden shortening and enhanced bus lanes. Not good for the property owners but less of an impact.

I see that they don’t plan on going to ABP until 2020 with these plans which means it could be 3-4 years from now before they actually see the light of day!

Time for enforcement of existing priority measures and clear ways to be rolled out as an interim measure?

Lx, parts of rathfarnham are in the Dublin south west political area boundary. I’d say that’s were people (including me) get this classification from.
Also that 2020 date for going to abp is further away than I would have hopped.

tom1ie · 14-11-2018 2:23pm

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

Hundreds to lose part of their gardens in new Bus Connects plan

Just watched the video on that indo page. The amount of taxis in the bus lane in one part of that video is ridiculous. Could something not be done to increase the efficiency of bus lanes by banning taxis in bus lanes during peak hours as realistically they are only carrying 1 or 2 people up to a max of 7 vs a bus which carries multiples of this, yet only takes up the length of 3 taxis.
I know the vested interests would go crazy at this but it’d free up a lot of bus lane space.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 2:37pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Lx, parts of rathfarnham are in the Dublin south west political area boundary. I’d say that’s were people (including me) get this classification from.
Also that 2020 date for going to abp is further away than I would have hopped.

To be honest Tom, it’s better to be geographically accurate about this. To describe the area with the biggest issues as “south west Dublin” is misleading to say the least.

Geographically Rathfarnham is due south of the city and the main areas of traffic congestion are north of there (Terenure, Rathgar, Rathmines and Harold’s X) which are all in south central Dublin.

Try and remember that some of the busiest bus routes along those QBCs such as the 14 and 16 for example go nowhere near southwest Dublin serving places like Churchtown and Ballinteer!

Sorry to harp on about this - but I’m a pedant for being geographically accurate!

tom1ie · 14-11-2018 2:40pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

To be honest Tom, it’s better to be geographically accurate about this. To describe the area with the biggest issues as “south west Dublin” is misleading to say the least.

Geographically Rathfarnham is due south of the city and the main areas of traffic congestion are north of there (Terenure, Rathgar, Rathmines and Harold’s X) which are all in south central Dublin.

Try and remember that some of the busiest bus routes along those QBCs such as the 14 and 16 for example go nowhere near southwest Dublin serving places like Churchtown and Ballinteer!

Sorry to harp on about this - but I’m a pedant for being geographically accurate!

Ah yeah fair enough, but when I hear Dublin south west I think of the election leaflets that get delivered to my door in rathfarnham!
By the way what area would greenhills, walkinstown and sundrive be in? If that’s dublin south west (geographically) that’s an area that is going to present major problems for the bc infrastructure. It’s traffic gridlock there aswell.

bk · 14-11-2018 2:42pm

Well some one has broken the busconnects.ie site!

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 2:57pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Ah yeah fair enough, but when I hear Dublin south west I think of the election leaflets that get delivered to my door in rathfarnham!
By the way what area would greenhills, walkinstown and sundrive be in? If that’s dublin south west (geographically) that’s an area that is going to present major problems for the bc infrastructure. It’s traffic gridlock there aswell.

To me (and I’m looking at the map!) southwest Dublin would roughly be the areas outside the R817.

That road itself is going to be a major problem to deal with.

South Central Dublin is roughly between the R817 and R825. That area is the worst for congestion and the hardest to solve.

LXFlyer · 14-11-2018 2:58pm

bk wrote: »

Well some one has broken the busconnects.ie site!

Seems to be working ok again!
Nothing new yet though.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 3:14pm

jvan wrote: »

Its good to see the Independent out with their positive spin on public infrastructure as usual

Predictable snoozfest headline.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 3:35pm

delayed until 3pm

Heartbreak Hank · 14-11-2018 4:03pm

It's up:

https://story.mapme.com/busconnects/overview

bk · 14-11-2018 4:08pm

The site is being updated as we speak, and things are gradually appearing. No detailed plans yet, hopefully will be there soon.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 4:08pm

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

It's up:

https://story.mapme.com/busconnects/overview

what new information is available ?

Heartbreak Hank · 14-11-2018 4:09pm

cgcsb wrote: »

what new information is available ?

Yeah, it thought it was liver than it is...:o A couple error pages so still updating I guess.

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 4:13pm

https://twitter.com/SeanMJourno/status/1062718410579107843

25k per property on average. Jaysus. That's not even including the price of the landscaping.

bk · 14-11-2018 4:17pm

Clongriffin to City Center PDF:
https://busconnects.ie/media/1349/busconnects-cbc1-clongriffin-to-city-centre-final-for-web-med-res.pdf

bk · 14-11-2018 4:21pm

Actual construction of corridors between 2021 through 2027!

2 years per corridor, construction time.

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 4:23pm

Ballymun and Finglas corridors are awaiting finalisation of the Metrolink project

CatInABox · 14-11-2018 4:38pm

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

It's up:

https://story.mapme.com/busconnects/overview

Just noticed that the Clongriffin map doesn't match up with the map in the PDF. The PDF one is correct.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 4:56pm

The Clongriffen corridor stops short on detail at Fairview.

The Blanchardstown one is interesting. Was surprised by the new 2 way cycle track, and the sneakily inserted car-free north quays with a 2 way cycle way. Disapointed by stoneybatter. The pleasant pedestrian area at the Prussia/aughrim st junction appears to be thoroughly unpleasant in the maps, with 4 traffic lanes at it's widest point. Will have a look at Lucan but am not expecting anything new.

bk · 14-11-2018 5:00pm

Taking a quick look at the Swords - Drumcondra route, I like what I see so far.

It comes across as not just a Bus project, but also a big improvement to cycling infrastructure (at last) and pedestrian infrastructure. As an example, a few places on the Swords road where you currently have to cross the road three times to get to the other side, they are proposing to put in a fourth, badly needed crossing.

For bikes, it looks like a pretty decent upgrade at first glance, with the bike path going behind bus stops where their is space and generally being off road for the most part. Though I'm sure monument will go over that in more detail and point out mistakes. But overall looks decent.

They are planning to widen the Tolka bridge, great it is a minor choke point.

I don't see much in the way of controversial land take. Mostly just a very small sliver of land of what are mostly various institutions with plenty of Land spare (Plunkett College, various sports grounds, etc.). Looks like very few homes impacted on this route.

The one possibly controversial part would be the one way street for cars in Santry by the Omni Center.

I get the impression that they are only taking bits of garden where people have very large gardens and where they only need a small bit of garden and the home owner shouldn't be overly effected, at least on this route.

Where they would need to take a whole front garden, they have avoided that, for instance the above Santry example, you could fit four lanes in there, but it would involve taking whole front gardens, so instead they are going for one way streets and three lanes.

loyatemu · 14-11-2018 5:18pm

cgcsb wrote: »

The Clongriffen corridor stops short on detail at Fairview.

there's a separate scheme for Fairview and North Strand, the details of which have already been published.

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:24pm

Overall impressed with the cycling provision, across all corridors. Disapointed by the way pedestrians are treated in Stoneybatter at the Prussia/Aughrim junction.

matrim · 14-11-2018 5:24pm

bk wrote: »

Taking a quick look at the Swords - Drumcondra route, I like what I see so far.

It comes across as not just a Bus project, but also a big improvement to cycling infrastructure (at last) and pedestrian infrastructure. As an example, a few places on the Swords road where you currently have to cross the road three times to get to the other side, they are proposing to put in a fourth, badly needed crossing.

For bikes, it looks like a pretty decent upgrade at first glance, with the bike path going behind bus stops where their is space and generally being off road for the most part. Though I'm sure monument will go over that in more detail and point out mistakes. But overall looks decent.

They are planning to widen the Tolka bridge, great it is a minor choke point.

I don't see much in the way of controversial land take. Mostly just a very small sliver of land of what are mostly various institutions with plenty of Land spare (Plunkett College, various sports grounds, etc.). Looks like very few homes impacted on this route.

The one possibly controversial part would be the one way street for cars in Santry by the Omni Center.

I get the impression that they are only taking bits of garden where people have very large gardens and where they only need a small bit of garden and the home owner shouldn't be overly effected, at least on this route.

Where they would need to take a whole front garden, they have avoided that, for instance the above Santry example, you could fit four lanes in there, but it would involve taking whole front gardens, so instead they are going for one way streets and three lanes.

Looks like no left turn from dorset st to gardnier st too. That one is reasonably popular so could cause a few complaints.

Also, looks like the section between Quinns and Fagans remains largely untouched. I was hoping for that as the trees along there are really nice and it would have been a shame to lose them.

tom1ie · 14-11-2018 5:25pm

bk wrote: »

Clongriffin to City Center PDF:
https://busconnects.ie/media/1349/busconnects-cbc1-clongriffin-to-city-centre-final-for-web-med-res.pdf

Will there be many bus routes using this bus lane? The reason I ask is the bus set down areas at the bus stops are in line with the qbc as opposed to offset to allow busses not stopping a chance to pass busses that are stopping.
If the bus stops aren’t offset that means busses have to merge into car traffic lanes if another bus is already occupying the bus lane.
Is this not a major drawback?

cgcsb · 14-11-2018 5:26pm

the bus provision on Gardner st is nice. Currently a free for all.

Dublin - BusConnects

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