Dublin - BusConnects

devnull

They're resorting to their usual parish pump and populist policies.

Despite claims to the opposite it seems opposition has not changed them one bit.

Zebra3

devnull wrote: »

They're resorting to their usual parish pump and populist policies.

Despite claims to the opposite it seems opposition has not changed them one bit.

FF aren’t in opposition.

devnull

Zebra3 wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

They're resorting to their usual parish pump and populist policies.

Despite claims to the opposite it seems opposition has not changed them one bit.

FF aren’t in opposition.

At the last election I had a people from FF canvassing at my door saying that their spell in opposition has made them change and they are not a populist party.

Make no doubt about it. This stunt from FF is about populism more than anything else and trying to garner votes from the fear and misinformation that has been whipped up.

Pixel Eater

Only a few more information sessions left. Busáras tomorrow for those centrally located or working nearby.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1315/confirmed-information-session-locations-august-and-september-2018.pdf

Zebra3

devnull wrote: »

At the last election I had a people from FF canvassing at my door saying that their spell in opposition has made them change and they are not a populist party.

Make no doubt about it. This stunt from FF is about populism more than anything else and trying to garner votes from the fear and misinformation that has been whipped up.

Not arguing with you!

LeinsterDub

JohnC. wrote: »

What's going on now? I just caught the end of something on the radio a little earlier, something about FF changing their minds and going against this now?

FF have been against it since day one as far as I can see

devnull

LeinsterDub wrote: »

FF have been against it since day one as far as I can see

My fear always was that BusConnects could get buried under local politics and I take no pleasure from the fact that it seems that my fears may well have been proven correct in this case unfortunately. I do not believe for one moment that FF are making voices about scrapping €2bn investment in public transport because they feel it is generally right. As any true populist party would do, they've seen that a lot of people are angry about this, quite often because of misinformation, and it could buy them a few votes, lets not kid ourselves.

We just don't do radical change, people like to complain about things but if there is one thing they like more, it's to resist change and whilst that is still the case then we're not going to get the radical change our city needs. Sure, BusConnects and the network design is not perfect, but that's why there are consultations (leaving aside the irony of people complaining at a consultation that they are not being consulted) and changed need to be made, but if we just resort to tweaking what we already have, we'll never solve the many problems that exist, or tackle our traffic congestion which is getting worse year on year.

A friend of mine went to a community meeting last week in a well heeled area of the city and they're now already talking about the infrastructure consultation saying they're not consulted before the consultation over fears that the road in front of them could turn into a "Bus Motorway" and that it will stop them enjoying their garden and gaining access to their car and driving down the road and it will make the area look 'downmarket and 'hit property prices hard'.

That's the likes of the opposition we're likely to see in that consultation further down the line, essentially people saying that they don't want these big dirty buses going down there road and so many of them, because it impedes car users, despite the fact that a bus is a far more efficient use of space than all these people driving on their own in a car. It will be interesting to see how they deal with CPO issues with such people, who clearly think their area should not be blighted by having buses going down it.

schemingbohemia

But the thing is, aren't most spines going the same route as now, so they already have buses going past their house, just in future it's possible they might be a bit closer to the house?

Markcheese

schemingbohemia wrote: »

But the thing is, aren't most spines going the same route as now, so they already have buses going past their house, just in future it's possible they might be a bit closer to the house?

And i suppose, the buses should be driving past the houses, instead of stopping.. At least in theory..

hmmm

devnull wrote: »

A friend of mine went to a community meeting last week in a well heeled area of the city and they're now already talking about the infrastructure consultation saying they're not consulted before the consultation over fears that the road in front of them could turn into a "Bus Motorway" and that it will stop them enjoying their garden and gaining access to their car and driving down the road and it will make the area look 'downmarket and 'hit property prices hard'.

Doesn't sound unreasonable if their road is going to be turned into a spine route.

It's the job now of the Minister for Transport to face them down and tell them that this is for the greater good.

devnull

hmmm wrote: »

Doesn't sound unreasonable if their road is going to be turned into a spine route.

The trouble is the way they were putting it across was like your typical NIMBY and also like someone who felt that their area was too well heeled to have things such as buses going down their roads because they were too good for such things and they felt that it cheapened the area.

Bray Head

hmmm wrote: »

Doesn't sound unreasonable if their road is going to be turned into a spine route.

It's the job now of the Minister for Transport to face them down and tell them that this is for the greater good.

Shane Ross says BusConnects has nothing to do with him

[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Minister for Transport [/font][font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Shane Ross[/font][font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif] told a residents’ association meeting in his constituency on Wednesday evening he had nothing to do with the Bus Connects plan and had no responsibility for the National Transport Authority, according to people present..........[/font][font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]According to one person present, when he saw a proposed route map for the Bus Connects plan at the meeting, he told attendees: “Don’t mind this map.”....[/font]Earlier that day, Mr Ross had defended the plan in the Dáil. “There are always significant concerns when something as major as this happens . . . However, the changes are necessary and people will come to accept them because they will get them from one place to another much more quickly.”

CatInABox

Bray Head wrote: »

Shane Ross says BusConnects has nothing to do with him

Shane Ross once again finding another way to disappoint. Is he the biggest let down in Irish political history?

Teyla Emmagan

CatInABox wrote:

Shane Ross once again finding another way to disappoint. Is he the biggest let down in Irish political history?

He is lethal. He would sell his own granny for political gain.

Soulsun

Will this shambles go ahead or will they pull the plug on it?

From what I can see and heard there will be complete mayhem when the new routes kick in.

Synode

Soulsun wrote: »

Will this shambles go ahead or will they pull the plug on it?

From what I can see and heard there will be complete mayhem when the new routes kick in.

What makes you say that? The new numbering and lettering? People will get use to it quick enough

Soulsun

Synode wrote: »

What makes you say that? The new numbering and lettering? People will get use to it quick enough

New shorter routes
Old routes scrapped

The old routes evolved over time based on consumer demand in and out of estates

From what I can see the bus connect is all about getting value for money which I understand

Also the feckin bus drivers weren't even consulted!

Or maybe I'm afraid of change?

markpb

Bray Head wrote: »

Shane Ross says BusConnects has nothing to do with him

[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Minister for Transport [/font][font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Shane Ross[/font][font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif] told a residents’ association meeting in his constituency on Wednesday evening he had nothing to do with the Bus Connects plan and had no responsibility for the National Transport Authority, according to people present..........[/font][font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]According to one person present, when he saw a proposed route map for the Bus Connects plan at the meeting, he told attendees: “Don’t mind this map.”....[/font]Earlier that day, Mr Ross had defended the plan in the Dáil. “There are always significant concerns when something as major as this happens . . . However, the changes are necessary and people will come to accept them because they will get them from one place to another much more quickly.”

I wonder how much the article and headline reflect what he actually said. It would be quite plausible and commendable for a Minister for Transport to redirect all feedback about Bus Connects to the public consultation process instead of leading people to believe he can personally meddle in the plan. The comments which are actually quoted (instead of paraphrased) are very accurate

- “There are always significant concerns when something as major as this happens . . . However, the changes are necessary and people will come to accept them because they will get them from one place to another much more quickly.”
- Mr Ross said he understood there were difficulties with the plan and said there would be “some adjustments made to it” on foot of public consultations

The last quote is particularly laughable:

Fianna Fáil councillor Shay Brennan, who was also present, said that he was “surprised to hear that the Minister is making a submission on his own policy. I presume he’s doing so as a local representative and not as Minister,” Mr Brennan added.

No Shay, that's exactly what Shane Ross should be doing. He has set policy, the NTA are implementing it and any route/area-specific feedback he has should go through the public consultation process. Your FF-style of Minister meddling is no longer required.

Qrt

Soulsun wrote: »

The old routes evolved over time based on consumer demand in and out of estates

You mean routes that were diverted time and time again only to result in a bus system that makes no sense? Adding best part of half an hour to some routes?

devnull

markpb wrote: »

I wonder how much the article and headline reflect what he actually said. It would be quite plausible and commendable for a Minister for Transport to redirect all feedback about Bus Connects to the public consultation process instead of leading people to believe he can personally meddle in the plan. The comments which are actually quoted (instead of paraphrased) are very accurate

I don't like paraphrasing, because often it is used to spin what is being said under the guise of simplifying it. I've always believed if someone said something, you should quote them directly and if you don't then there is the chance it stops being quotes and starts being someones opinion of what someone else was saying, rather than what they actually said.

sharper

Qrt wrote: »

You mean routes that were diverted time and time again only to result in a bus system that makes no sense? Adding best part of half an hour to some routes?

Exactly and just think about the number of new estates being built all across the greater Dublin area. All of these want the bus running through them every 15 minutes and some of them will get it.

People are failing to consider what the Bus network looks like in 5 or 10 years time if it stays the way it is now. This can't be solved by running more busses along routes that get longer and longer which then all clog each other up trying to pass through the city centre.

CatInABox

CatInABox wrote: »

Shane Ross once again finding another way to disappoint. Is he the biggest let down in Irish political history?

I've edited this, as I don't think it was entirely fair on Shane Ross. I don't think he's a good minister, but in this case I don't think the article accurately depicted what happened.

specialbyte

The Dublin Cycling Campaign has come out in support for the network redesign for BusConnects. Though they question the lack of cycling infrastructure on roads that will see large increases in the number of buses per hour. Particularly roads that are outside of the NTA's Core Bus Corridor Project. It mostly seems to affect the orbital roads in the suburbs and some city centre streets like Cuffe Street, which has no buses now but will have the F spine and the 7 route running along it.

There is a list of what roads will see increases in the number of buses per hour at the end of the submission in that news article. Interesting analysis.

https://www.dublincycling.com/cycling/busconnects-network-redesign-good-cycle-infrastructure-needed

Pixel Eater

Has anyone noticed that since the recent announcement of the Bus Connect project many people are being complimentary to the current bus network, whereas previously they gave out yards about it...

schemingbohemia

Much of the problem with the discourse at the moment is it's being led by older people who are not time sensitive, the X bus gets me to the local shop in the afternoon, or by people who have not actually looked at what the changes are. The misinformation peddled by political parties and NBRU is on a massive scale.
And the message that this will actually attract people out of their cars and onto a reliable, speedy service that will reach far more places, more easily than is currently the case is getting lost - and for a flat fare for 90 minutes no matter the mode of transport!
Sadly facts don't sit well with some of the opposition to the DRAFT changes proposed.

sharper

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that since the recent announcement of the Bus Connect project many people are being complimentary to the current bus network, whereas previously they gave out yards about it...

I can't say I've noticed this amongst people actually using the busses. People talking on social media etc often give me the impression they use the service infrequently.

This time of year is pretty much the worst for Dublin Bus. The schools are back and colleges are opening one by one. You go from being able to get a seat to having to squeeze on and stand and/or watch multiple full busses fly past while people at your own stop just give up and walk away.

prunudo

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Much of the problem with the discourse at the moment is it's being led by older people who are not time sensitive, the X bus gets me to the local shop in the afternoon, or by people who have not actually looked at what the changes are. The misinformation peddled by political parties and NBRU is on a massive scale.
And the message that this will actually attract people out of their cars and onto a reliable, speedy service that will reach far more places, more easily than is currently the case is getting lost - and for a flat fare for 90 minutes no matter the mode of transport!
Sadly facts don't sit well with some of the opposition to the DRAFT changes proposed.

Like when they announced the Metro Link plan, they need to work on their PR and go on a proper charm offensive telling people how great it will make their lives once they get used to the new plan.

schemingbohemia

Yes! The PR has been an absolute shambles. No lessons learned from Metrolink, once the field is left open to falsehoods and misrepresentation from the very beginning it's hard to bring it back to facts.
Should have gone with a massive campaign focussed on:
- 90 minute Fare on all modes
- Get to way more places than you currently can, no need to go via An Lár
- Massive increase in frequencies on main spines
- A draft interchange design with CCTV, lighting, seating and shelters - so that people can visualise it properly
- Draft bus priority measures at Blanch/Liffey Valley to counteract the Xmas traffic jam scenario
- they should have had the spine animations at the beginning, not near the end

CatInABox

They should really promote the health benefits of having an increased ridership on buses as well.

For example, using totally made up figures:

A 20% increase in the number of people using buses means X amount of cars taken off the roads, which will lead to Y reduction on the amount of lung cancers caused by pollution.

A decrease in commuting times means that people will have a better work life balance, with more time with their kids

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

They should really promote the health benefits of having an increased ridership on buses as well.

For example, using totally made up figures:

A 20% increase in the number of people using buses means X amount of cars taken off the roads, which will lead to Y reduction on the amount of lung cancers caused by pollution.

A decrease in commuting times means that people will have a better work life balance, with more time with their kids

Actually, it would be better to say a 20% increase in the number taking the bus instead of the car would result in the buses travelling 10% quicker, and journey times being reduced by 6%.

It might be worth pointing out that the 90 min fare would be significantly cheaper for most commuters. Also, the increased ridership should not threaten the fare box so subsidy is not increased.

(If any of that is true).