DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

coogy · 08-11-2018 1:35pm

smeal wrote: »

First run since DCM last night at the Run in the Dark 10k and somehow pulled a PB out of the bag! Legs were like lead for most of it though.

The 10k runners merged with the 5k runners at our 7k and had no choice but to weave and sometimes stop and walk to get around.

I didn't run it myself but I was only wondering yesterday how on earth that was going to work!

skyblue46 · 08-11-2018 1:43pm

smeal wrote: »

First run since DCM last night at the Run in the Dark 10k and somehow pulled a PB out of the bag! Legs were like lead for most of it though.

The event itself, although for an excellent cause, was fairly badly organised in my opinion. The 10k runners merged with the 5k runners at our 7k and had no choice but to weave and sometimes stop and walk to get around. Parts of the route were also particularly poorly lit up such as the street behind the 3 arena and there were lots of kerbs and bollards that were hazards. Very dangerous!

Good to see the advice to take it easy for a while after DCM was noted! :pac:

It is called Run in the Dark!

smeal · 08-11-2018 2:02pm

It is called Run in the Dark!

I appreciate that and for 7k it was a great run. But merging 5k runners and walkers and 10k runners on a narrow dim lit street that involves running around a cone at the top and back is a hazard.

skyblue46 · 08-11-2018 2:10pm

smeal wrote: »

I appreciate that and for 7k it was a great run. But merging 5k runners and walkers and 10k runners on a narrow dim lit street that involves running around a cone at the top and back is a hazard.

Apologies, I was being facetious. It wasn't a good idea. Organisation has not been a strong point of this race since it began. I think for lots a people it is a 'never again' race....myself included.

Kellygirl · 08-11-2018 2:14pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Apologies, I was being facetious. It wasn't a good idea. Organisation has not been a strong point of this race since it began. I think for lots a people it is a 'never again' race....myself included.

I’ve seen no good reports about the Dublin race. Running the 10km group into the back of 5km walkers is mad! I’m doing the Cork one next week purely because there’s nothing else on at the moment but not overly confident that it will be a smooth run. Apparently congestion is always a problem.

Huzzah! · 08-11-2018 2:24pm

Kellygirl wrote: »

I’ve seen no good reports about the Dublin race. Running the 10km group into the back of 5km walkers is mad! I’m doing the Cork one next week purely because there’s nothing else on at the moment but not overly confident that it will be a smooth run. Apparently congestion is always a problem.

I did the 5k last year and we started ahead of the 10kers. It was still a disaster, though, but possibly more to do with people starting in incorrect waves. Wave 1 was sub25. I started in wave 2 and had caught up with the first wave fairly quickly. Spent most of the rest of the run dodging people. I also had no idea of the correct route at one point. Most people stuck to the footpath, while I stayed on the road. It wasn't marked or marshaled as far as I could see. It's a pity because, as you say, whether Dublin or Cork, there's not a huge amount of choice this time of year.

Kellygirl · 08-11-2018 2:39pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

I did the 5k last year and we started ahead of the 10kers. It was still a disaster, though, but possibly more to do with people starting in incorrect waves. Wave 1 was sub25. I started in wave 2 and had caught up with the first wave fairly quickly. Spent most of the rest of the run dodging people. I also had no idea of the correct route at one point. Most people stuck to the footpath, while I stayed on the road. It wasn't marked or marshaled as far as I could see. It's a pity because, as you say, whether Dublin or Cork, there's not a huge amount of choice this time of year.

I’ll try get as close to the front as possible and hopefully that will work. I suppose a lot of people who don’t normally run do these races and just don’t think that people might want to race them.

Hedgehoggy · 09-11-2018 4:08pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Good to see the advice to take it easy for a while after DCM was noted! :pac:

It is called Run in the Dark!

Quick follow up question on this - I've signed up for a 5k at the start of December. Would like to have a shot at a new 5k PB - was thinking of doing some interval training, something like 10-12 x 400m at 5k pace - Bad idea???

OOnegative · 09-11-2018 4:11pm

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Quick follow up question on this - I've signed up for a 5k at the start of December. Would like to have a shot at a new 5k PB - was thinking of doing some interval training, something like 10-12 x 400m at 5k pace - Bad idea???

Leave any intervals, you’ll be surprised how fast you can go from the endurance built up from marathon training. Keep it all easy for next while.

ariana` · 09-11-2018 4:52pm

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Quick follow up question on this - I've signed up for a 5k at the start of December. Would like to have a shot at a new 5k PB - was thinking of doing some interval training, something like 10-12 x 400m at 5k pace - Bad idea???

You could do a handful of strides at the end of an easy run next week and again the week after just to get a feel for a bit of speed again but on the whole I agree with OONegative. It's still a bit soon for doing tough 5k sessions and you might surprise yourself with a PB regardless!

coogy · 09-11-2018 5:06pm

Quick one from me also.

Looking ahead to what's next, I am planning on having completed the grads plan base phase training by the end of January at the latest. Ideally, I would like to get a couple of 10k races under my belt early in the year before I take a look at any half marathons.

Would you recommend going straight to the 10k-HM plan and from there to the 14 week marathon plan later in the year? Also, would it be advisable only to do any races as long as a block of training has been completed from start to finish?

skyblue46 · 09-11-2018 5:22pm

coogy wrote: »

Quick one from me also.

Looking ahead to what's next, I am planning on having completed the grads plan base phase training by the end of January at the latest. Ideally, I would like to get a couple of 10k races under my belt early in the year before I take a look at any half marathons.

Would you recommend going straight to the 10k-HM plan and from there to the 14 week marathon plan later in the year? Also, would it be advisable only to do any races as long as a block of training has been completed from start to finish?

Second question first. Remember that your running is a hobby. If you feel like racing, race. Your time might not be as good as if the race was at the end of a block of specific training but does that really matter? I did about 13 races last year. One at the end of each block would only allow for 3.

Back to the first question....I did 3 of the grads plans last year plus the base prior to the marathon plan. Give yourself a down week in between each at least. You can't train hard for 52 weeks

coogy · 09-11-2018 5:27pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Second question first. Remember that your running is a hobby. If you feel like racing, race. Your time might not be as good as if the race was at the end of a block of specific training but does that really matter? I did about 13 races last year. One at the end of each block would only allow for 3.

Back to the first question....I did 3 of the grads plans last year plus the base prior to the marathon plan. Give yourself a down week in between each at least. You can't train hard for 52 weeks

Thanks S. Wow, I had no idea you did so many last year! That's definitely opened my eyes a little........

I share your approach to entering races btw! It's a race, so race!

skyblue46 · 09-11-2018 5:47pm

coogy wrote: »

Thanks S. Wow, I had no idea you did so many last year! That's definitely opened my eyes a little........

I share your approach to entering races btw! It's a race, so race!

I just did a proper count..it was only 9...it felt busier mid year! Haha

I did make use of Parkrun to do a lot of the Saturday sessions on the plans. I didn't 'race' any of the Parkruns I did during the year.

Hedgehoggy · 09-11-2018 9:10pm

[quote="Leave any intervals, you’ll be surprised how fast you can go from the endurance built up from marathon training. Keep it all easy for next while."[/quote]

ariana` wrote: »

You could do a handful of strides at the end of an easy run next week and again the week after just to get a feel for a bit of speed again but on the whole I agree with OONegative. It's still a bit soon for doing tough 5k sessions and you might surprise yourself with a PB regardless!

Thanks for advice. Will keep it easy - The strides are a good idea to get a little speed back in the legs. I've done eff all since marathon day so hopefully haven't lost too much fitness!!! Will get back to it next wk - although that is what I said last week.........

skyblue46 · 09-11-2018 9:18pm

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Thanks for advice. Will keep it easy - The strides are a good idea to get a little speed back in the legs. I've done eff all since marathon day so hopefully haven't lost too much fitness!!! Will get back to it next wk - although that is what I said last week.........

Don't be worrying. Recovery after a marathon takes time even if you feel ok. I'm itching to do more myself but one of the benefits of Strava is seeing that much better runners than me are also doing bugger all post DCM. It really is a time to recover.

Edit: When will you be making an appearance on Strava?

racersedge · 09-11-2018 10:17pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Don't be worrying. Recovery after a marathon takes time even if you feel ok. I'm itching to do more myself but one of the benefits of Strava is seeing that much better runners than me are also doing bugger all post DCM. It really is a time to recover.

Edit: When will you be making an appearance on Strava?

Can definitely attest to that. Last night was the first night I went close to PMP pace and I could feel that my legs still felt... heavy - for lack of a better word. Didn't get the feeling I had had oodles in the bag left. I'm gently easing back into it though really. I've no major targets planned myself in the short-term. I am running the Gingerbread 10K next weekend, but I intend to run that with my dad. After that, the next event is going to be the Donedea Half - but I'm particularly mindful of having races set in stone early next year with a baby on the way. Or so my wife says. She's banning me from taking part in anything in February an March!!

ariana` · 10-11-2018 10:21am

coogy wrote: »

Quick one from me also.

Looking ahead to what's next, I am planning on having completed the grads plan base phase training by the end of January at the latest. Ideally, I would like to get a couple of 10k races under my belt early in the year before I take a look at any half marathons.

Would you recommend going straight to the 10k-HM plan and from there to the 14 week marathon plan later in the year? Also, would it be advisable only to do any races as long as a block of training has been completed from start to finish?

I agree with Skyblue definitely don't limit yourself to just 1 race at the end of each block. You can't beat racing for enjoyment and also they will each teach you something, especially the ones that don't go to plan! Just be careful the weeks you are racing, you will naturally replace a session with the race but you will also need to make sure you are running very easy for a few days after the race for recovery.

Hopefully the grads thread will be set up by then and ye guys will all get good advice to help with adjusting plans to suit racing and all the million other things that you will be thinking about in the exciting times ahead!

Hedgehoggy · 12-11-2018 11:51am

skyblue46 wrote: »

Don't be worrying. Recovery after a marathon takes time even if you feel ok. I'm itching to do more myself but one of the benefits of Strava is seeing that much better runners than me are also doing bugger all post DCM. It really is a time to recover.

Edit: When will you be making an appearance on Strava?

Have been meaning to set myself up on Strava - hoping that one of the ways I can push myself along next year is to get a bit more analytical with my training and have better info available. Must get one of those training watches.... time to start some unsubtle hinting in the lead up to xmas

coogy · 12-11-2018 1:44pm

Hi folks, just letting you know that registration has now opened for the 2019 Ratoath Half Marathon. I ran it earlier this year with a few other Boardsies and I would definitely recommend it. Brilliantly organised, lovely race t-shirt and nice flat course too!

I reckon I'll be adding it to my list.:)

Rossi7 · 13-11-2018 12:52pm

Just a two quick question regarding what to do next, is it a case of just following previous years Graduate Base Phase plans until a 2018 Graduate Thread starts ?
Which brings me onto my next question, some of us Novices have a rogue WhatsApp splinter group and the same question gets asked alot in the past week. Who's responsible in setting up the Graduate Thread, is it a case of one of the novices setting it up in the hope an experienced Boardsie feels sorry for us and takes us under their wing or what's the process ? I know it's a few weeks away from starting up but curiosity is getting the better of them ( I've checked in on KittyClaws and it hasn't killed her )

ariana` · 13-11-2018 1:17pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

Just a two quick question regarding what to do next, is it a case of just following previous years Graduate Base Phase plans until a 2018 Graduate Thread starts ?
Which brings me onto my next question, some of us Novices have a rogue WhatsApp splinter group and the same question gets asked alot in the past week. Who's responsible in setting up the Graduate Thread, is it a case of one of the novices setting it up in the hope an experienced Boardsie feels sorry for us and takes us under their wing or what's the process ? I know it's a few weeks away from starting up but curiosity is getting the better of them ( I've checked in on KittyClaws and it hasn't killed her )

You guys should mostly still be in recovery mode as it's still less than 3 weeks since your big marathon debuts! I understand the eagerness to get going again but it really is no harm to focus on having a decent break from following a strict plan (don't underestimate the need for a mental break also!). I'd suggest all very easy running or even try some cross training for another week. But if you really want then you won't go far wrong by following the graduates base plan.

The process as i understand it is that a graduate mentor will be appointed in the coming weeks and that person will then set up a graduates thread in the training log forum. This thread will also be moved to the training log forum.

I hope that answers your questions

Rossi7 · 13-11-2018 2:54pm

Cheers Ariana, it was more of a post for the group as a awhole. I've been out 3 times since the marathon, so I was just looking at some sort of plan than to just be out randomly running varrious mileage

juke · 13-11-2018 3:11pm

ariana` wrote: »

You guys should mostly still be in recovery mode as it's still less than 3 weeks since your big marathon debuts! I understand the eagerness to get going again but it really is no harm to focus on having a decent break from following a strict plan (don't underestimate the need for a mental break also!). I'd suggest all very easy running or even try some cross training for another week. But if you really want then you won't go far wrong by following the graduates base plan.

The process as i understand it is that a graduate mentor will be appointed in the coming weeks and that person will then set up a graduates thread in the training log forum. This thread will also be moved to the training log forum.

I hope that answers your questions

Thanks ariana`,

I was going to start the base plan this week - but maybe I'll keep it easy for another week.

Rossi7 wrote: »

Cheers Ariana, it was more of a post for the group as a awhole. I've been out 3 times since the marathon, so I was just looking at some sort of plan than to just be out randomly running varrious mileage

Whilst I like the idea of structure, (and I have started working on my spreadsheet colours

) I've really been enjoying just going for an easy run without a gun to my head.

Huzzah! · 13-11-2018 3:19pm

juke wrote: »

Thanks ariana`,

I was going to start the base plan this week - but maybe I'll keep it easy for another week.

Whilst I like the idea of structure, (and I have started working on my spreadsheet colours ) I've really been enjoying just going for an easy run without a gun to my head.

It's all about the spreadsheet colours.

Rossi7 · 13-11-2018 3:45pm

"Whilst I like the idea of structure, (and I have started working on my spreadsheet colours [img=20x20]https://static.boards.ie/b//assets/img/sceditor/emoticons/shocked.png?v= ae39d6e0aa6fc7818f075010d7628c78[/img]) I've really been enjoying just going for an easy run without a gun to my head."
I prefere a structure to training rather than making it up on the day, there wasn't one session I was dreading for DCM

juke · 13-11-2018 4:27pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

I prefere a structure to training rather than making it up on the day, there wasn't one session I was dreading for DCM[/font][/size][/color]

I still get the fear over the thought of those 20 milers! :pac:

Rossi7 · 13-11-2018 4:34pm

We learnt to love them, sure 18 miles is just a trot for us now ;)

skyblue46 · 13-11-2018 7:58pm

Well folks I just thought I'd throw this up here seeing as a few of you seem to be pressing ahead with the Grads base plan already. I still think it's a bit early but my 'ad nauseam' days are over. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with some of the run types on the plan so I figured it might be best to touch on progression runs. These will figure regularly in both the base plan and the race plans.

The first thing you will notice is that there is a pace calculator attached to the plans. I'd suggest using your best race pace as the one to set your paces by. You will find the easy and very easy paces to be very slow. Trust them. Learn to run at those paces. Be aware that in some of the plans you will at points be asked to run 35/40% faster. There are 10 steps on the pace chart which you may be asked to use depending on which plan you use. If your easy and very easy pace is too fast you will be unable to step through the gears to the faster paces. You will also not be getting recovery from the sessions. Remember that a progression run picks up speed to the end. It's not a case of start too fast, be unable to continue to increase pace for the hour and end up slowing down at the end.

For the 2 X 60 min progression runs in weeks 1 and 3 I feel there is a very easy way to structure it. Do 12 mins at easy, then 12 at easy moderate, 12 at moderate, 12 at easy tempo and 12 at tempo. Cooldown with 10/15 at your very easy pace. Feel free to do the same very easy miles as a warmup too. This is very easy to set up as a workout for anyone using a Garmin watch. Set alerts to keep you within the pace ranges.

Best of luck with it....hopefully not until next week!

coogy · 13-11-2018 8:21pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Well folks I just thought I'd throw this up here seeing as a few of you seem to be pressing ahead with the Grads base plan already. I still think it's a bit early but my 'ad nauseam' days are over. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with some of the run types on the plan so I figured it might be best to touch on progression runs. These will figure regularly in both the base plan and the race plans.

The first thing you will notice is that there is a pace calculator attached to the plans. I'd suggest using your best race pace as the one to set your paces by. You will find the easy and very easy paces to be very slow. Trust them. Learn to run at those paces. Be aware that in some of the plans you will at points be asked to run 35/40% faster. There are 10 steps on the pace chart which you may be asked to use depending on which plan you use. If your easy and very easy pace is too fast you will be unable to step through the gears to the faster paces. You will also not be getting recovery from the sessions. Remember that a progression run picks up speed to the end. It's not a case of start too fast, be unable to continue to increase pace for the hour and end up slowing down at the end.

For the 2 X 60 min progression runs in weeks 1 and 3 I feel there is a very easy way to structure it. Do 12 mins at easy, then 12 at easy moderate, 12 at moderate, 12 at easy tempo and 12 at tempo. Cooldown with 10/15 at your very easy pace. Feel free to do the same very easy miles as a warmup too. This is very easy to set up as a workout for anyone using a Garmin watch. Set alerts to keep you within the pace ranges.

Best of luck with it....hopefully not until next week!

Thanks S. Still just getting out for some easy runs for the next week or so before I take on the Grads plan. Had a nice easy run today and really enjoyed it so I'm glad that my appetite for running hasn't waned.
Useful to know about the progression runs though as I wasn't quite sure how to manage them.
Looking forward to it!!

DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

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