Ireland - lack of air and naval defence.

Sgt. Bilko 09 · 04-07-2017 12:16pm

Brazil are the main customer of the of KC390 so presumably they will be the main advert of attention for launch. They have ordered a total of 26, 1 to be delivered in 2018 followed by 2 in 2019 then the rest in to be delivered by 2022.
For EU customers which mainly are Czech Republic and Portugal, however Portugal are to ask for a further two more.
Ireland hasn't confirmed the purchase but it's looking likely to that type of aircraft.

I seen that during leaders questions two weeks ago that he wants the radar capability but he was challenged by opposition about having interceptor aircraft as it was put to him it's all good seeing something coming your way but not being able to do something about it is a another thing he commented that he is happy with the idea of having IAC reps look for the right aircraft as we cannot rely on the RAF he mention clauses with Brexit etc.

sparky42 · 04-07-2017 2:13pm

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

Brazil are the main customer of the of KC390 so presumably they will be the main advert of attention for launch. They have ordered a total of 26, 1 to be delivered in 2018 followed by 2 in 2019 then the rest in to be delivered by 2022.
For EU customers which mainly are Czech Republic and Portugal, however Portugal are to ask for a further two more.
Ireland hasn't confirmed the purchase but it's looking likely to that type of aircraft.

So a total of 3 would be in service around the time the CASA's need to be replaced. Yep it would be insanity for Ireland to try and get them (even assuming that we could buy some slots of the Brazilians to get them in 2019-2020). We have tried being launch/near launch customers before and it's brought us nothing but problems. Whatever the budget is, go for the NATO standard that has the largest customer base and stick with that. Anything else is beyond stupid.

I seen that during leaders questions two weeks ago that he wants the radar capability but he was challenged by opposition about having interceptor aircraft as it was put to him it's all good seeing something coming your way but not being able to do something about it is a another thing he commented that he is happy with the idea of having IAC reps look for the right aircraft as we cannot rely on the RAF he mention clauses with Brexit etc.

That's called the opposition being the opposition, none of them would vote for the budget increase for any FJ capability and everyone in the Daíl knows that. Kehoe has feck all interest in the DF and would never get the Cabinet to sign off on it.

Sgt. Bilko 09 · 04-07-2017 5:30pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

Brazil are the main customer of the of KC390 so presumably they will be the main advert of attention for launch. They have ordered a total of 26, 1 to be delivered in 2018 followed by 2 in 2019 then the rest in to be delivered by 2022.
For EU customers which mainly are Czech Republic and Portugal, however Portugal are to ask for a further two more.
Ireland hasn't confirmed the purchase but it's looking likely to that type of aircraft.

So a total of 3 would be in service around the time the CASA's need to be replaced. Yep it would be insanity for Ireland to try and get them (even assuming that we could buy some slots of the Brazilians to get them in 2019-2020). We have tried being launch/near launch customers before and it's brought us nothing but problems. Whatever the budget is, go for the NATO standard that has the largest customer base and stick with that. Anything else is beyond stupid.

I seen that during leaders questions two weeks ago that he wants the radar capability but he was challenged by opposition about having interceptor aircraft as it was put to him it's all good seeing something coming your way but not being able to do something about it is a another thing he commented that he is happy with the idea of having IAC reps look for the right aircraft as we cannot rely on the RAF he mention clauses with Brexit etc.

That's called the opposition being the opposition, none of them would vote for the budget increase for any FJ capability and everyone in the Daíl knows that. Kehoe has feck all interest in the DF and would never get the Cabinet to sign off on it.

I agree , Embrear are good a commercial airlines and have came up with the design to compete as AC130 Hercules which they said is there main competitor and are thriving to beat in the market.
I personally think Embrear have set the bar far too high with comparing it to an aircraft that is tried and tested.
If the IAC are looking for something cheap and as good as the KC390, I believe the AN178 has been tried and fitted to do similar taskes but it is Eastern European built which they never liked for some reason.

sparky42 · 04-07-2017 5:55pm

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

I agree , Embrear are good a commercial airlines and have came up with the design to compete as AC130 Hercules which they said is there main competitor and are thriving to beat in the market.
I personally think Embrear have set the bar far too high with comparing it to an aircraft that is tried and tested.
If the IAC are looking for something cheap and as good as the KC390, I believe the AN178 has been tried and fitted to do similar taskes but it is Eastern European built which they never liked for some reason.

Why? Again you are suggesting a design that has zero operational success, it's less advanced than the KC390 with only 1 in testing. The replacement for the CASA's need to be MPA's and neither of the designs you've suggested are MPA's at all.

There's the C 27J Spartan or the CASA 295, those are the two runners, everything else is nuts to start looking (particularly the two you've suggested).

Heraldoffreeent · 04-07-2017 6:26pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Why? Again you are suggesting a design that has zero operational success, it's less advanced than the KC390 with only 1 in testing. The replacement for the CASA's need to be MPA's and neither of the designs you've suggested are MPA's at all.

There's the C 27J Spartan or the CASA 295, those are the two runners, everything else is nuts to start looking (particularly the two you've suggested).

And one is $28m and the other is $40, so its easy read which one we'll be getting.

As with the PC12,, this is pretty much well flagged, there'll be no KC390 here.

sparky42 · 04-07-2017 6:39pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

And one is $28m and the other is $40, so its easy read which one we'll be getting.

As with the PC12,, this is pretty much well flagged, there'll be no KC390 here.

Pretty much, as you say it's been well flagged, as I said at best we might get a third if we were very lucky.

Leonidas BL · 05-07-2017 11:38pm

A new PC9 arrived in today. This one has two atomic bombs strapped to the wings. Take that North Korea :P:p

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19756574_1796582947035987_5279864295609506912_n.jpg?oh=8024c13a6fe04a705707f90ff4907671&oe=5A0ADDCE

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sparky42 · 05-07-2017 11:41pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

A new PC9 arrived in today. This one has two atomic bombs strapped to the wings. Take that North Korea :P:p
snip

Hopefully the others will get fitted with the tanks as well, or perhaps look at other pods that could increase their usefulness.

Leonidas BL · 05-07-2017 11:43pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Hopefully the others will get fitted with the tanks as well, or perhaps look at other pods that could increase their usefulness.

I doubt it. These were probably used to fly it from Switzerland. I bet they'll go back to Pilatus.

sparky42 · 05-07-2017 11:55pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I doubt it. These were probably used to fly it from Switzerland. I bet they'll go back to Pilatus.

Wonder did the originals use them to fly over? Guess we won't know for a while.

SpannerMonkey · 07-07-2017 3:28pm

what a waste of money . :rolleyes:

EDIT: by that i mean the pc9 is a waste of money not that spending money on aircraft is a waste of money

donvito99 · 12-07-2017 2:38pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

And one is $28m and the other is $40, so its easy read which one we'll be getting.

Those are really just sticker prices, the latter has been offered for less and the former has been offered for prices comparable to the latter's sticker price...

Biggest boons for Airbus is the fact that we already have two CASAs and that the C27J has no proven MPA fit out. The C27J works for people with a dozen or so C130Js who see it as a way to reduce hours with a smaller, complementary aircraft with system and engine commonality - the Australians for example.

Negative_G · 12-07-2017 5:10pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I doubt it. These were probably used to fly it from Switzerland. I bet they'll go back to Pilatus.

Incorrect. The aircraft stopped en route.

The drop tanks will be staying also with more to arrive.

ezra_ · 13-07-2017 9:28am

Negative_G wrote: »

Incorrect. The aircraft stopped en route.

The drop tanks will be staying also with more to arrive.

What do the drop tanks allow the planes to do - just spend more time flying?

beauf · 13-07-2017 9:35am

ezra_ wrote: »

What do the drop tanks allow the planes to do - just spend more time flying?

Yes they increase range.

They increase drag, weight and decrease performance though.

Leonidas BL · 13-07-2017 8:03pm

ezra_ wrote: »

What do the drop tanks allow the planes to do - just spend more time flying?

Secretly they are just covers for AIM-9X air to air missiles. That way the lefty lunatics in this country wont start blabbering.

ezra_ · 13-07-2017 9:05pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Secretly they are just covers for AIM-9X air to air missiles. That way the lefty lunatics in this country wont start blabbering.

ahh poo.

I was hoping they were the new secret Jet modules

Markcheese · 13-07-2017 9:32pm

Leonidas BL wrote:

Secretly they are just covers for AIM-9X air to air missiles. That way the lefty lunatics in this country wont start blabbering.

Oohh, in a nifty stealth case... ðŸ˜€

sparky42 · 13-07-2017 10:02pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Oohh, in a nifty stealth case... &#55357;&#56832;

Well to be fair the proposed "Advanced Superhornet" design actually does have such cases to reduce returns.

shaunr68 · 23-11-2017 5:35pm

chem wrote: »

years ago, when I was a kid, I would visit my relations in Kildare town over the summer. I used to love going to the army camp there and have a look around. Security was not an issue there. We used to play on the anti aircraft guns:eek:

I remember seeing a radar dome on the site and was always wondering what hi tec wonderous devise was in it. One day I spotted a man heading to the dome with a wheelbarrow. I hid and waited for him to open the doors to the dome. I couldnt wait to see the radar dish. He opened both doors wide. I watched. He then went inside and filled his barrow with turf:eek:

The bloody thing was full of turf!! Kind of ruined my childhood dreams of the Irish army that day:(

Perhaps the army was preparing for a turf war?

Sorry for the necro post but reading through this thread I couldn't resist.

Leonidas BL · 13-10-2018 3:37pm

So in the budget it was mentioned about buying new Light tactical armored vehicles. Does that mean they are replacing the RG-32's?

leinsterjack · 01-11-2018 7:09pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

So in the budget it was mentioned about buying new Light tactical armored vehicles. Does that mean they are replacing the RG-32's?

These would be very nice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV

However I would imagine we'll get something considerably cheaper and operationally sub-standard.

Leonidas BL · 01-11-2018 8:11pm

Id love to see either of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9hicule_Blind%C3%A9_L%C3%A9ger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowag_Eagle

BoJack Horseman · 03-11-2018 1:15pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Id love to see either of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9hicule_Blind%C3%A9_L%C3%A9ger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mowag_Eagle

Those French VBL's are tiny and are going to be phased out by the French Army

The Eagle is impressive, though I can't see what makes them better than the RG32's we already have.

joeysoap · 03-11-2018 1:27pm

Eavesdropping on this thread. When I was a kid and traveling from Dundalk to Dublin by train, we sat on the ‘sea’ side if possible until Mosney. Then we moved over to the other side so we could see the air corps airplanes parked in a field at Gormanstown. There was early alway 2 parked up and of course in my imagination they were Spitfires , ready to do battle in the sky. Oh the innocence.

sparky42 · 03-11-2018 2:20pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Those French VBL's are tiny and are going to be phased out by the French Army

The Eagle is impressive, though I can't see what makes them better than the RG32's we already have.

That they work? Our 32s have terrible reliability apparently.

Markcheese · 03-11-2018 2:55pm

sparky42 wrote: »

That they work? Our 32s have terrible reliability apparently.

What stops them? Engine, electronics or suspension?
They're clocking up the hours at this stage...

Leonidas BL · 03-11-2018 3:20pm

Markcheese wrote: »

What stops them? Engine, electronics or suspension?
They're clocking up the hours at this stage...

I heard they are badly made balls of ****e

ohnonotgmail · 03-11-2018 5:59pm

joeysoap wrote: »

Eavesdropping on this thread. When I was a kid and traveling from Dundalk to Dublin by train, we sat on the ‘sea’ side if possible until Mosney. Then we moved over to the other side so we could see the air corps airplanes parked in a field at Gormanstown. There was early alway 2 parked up and of course in my imagination they were Spitfires , ready to do battle in the sky. Oh the innocence.

Depending on how old you are you could have seen some spitfires. Though more correctly we had Seafires not Spitfires until the mid 1950's. We had spitfire trainers for a short time as well.

Markcheese · 04-11-2018 3:16pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I heard they are badly made balls of ****e

Oh grand, we'll go through an exhaustive selection process and just get the same thing again so... ðŸ˜€

Ireland - lack of air and naval defence.

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