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Ireland - lack of air and naval defence.

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  • 07-12-2009 2:49am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭


    [Moderator's Note:

    Yes, there's a Walter Mitty Forum for silliness like this, but the topic seems to keep coming up. Thus, this thread has been 'stickified' as the first pont of call for any complaints about the lack of Ireland's military capability, any other threads started on the subject will either be merged into this one, or moved to Walter Mitty.

    The more creative your solution for the re-instatement of Ireland into a position of 'World Military Power', the better.

    NTM ]

    _____________________________

    Given Ireland's lack of adequate naval and air defence, should we not look at partnering with another European state? Britain was, and in many respects still is a hostile nation but what about the French. We already cooperate closely with French forces in Chad. Should we ask the French to station an aircraft carrier in the Shannon Estuary and share the running costs?

    Share your thoughts.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    To defend from whom ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭ShotgunPaddy


    jhegarty wrote: »
    To defend from whom ?

    The Russians. Why do other European countries have navies and air-forces? Ireland is a big gaping hole in the European defence perimeter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    The Russians. Why do other European countries have navies and air-forces? Ireland is a big gaping hole in the European defence perimeter.

    It's on the wrong side of Europe for that. Besides, the UK can do our defending for us. The level of military expenditure you're talking about would cripple our budget and jack up taxes. Do you really want to pay for something so utterly useless to our economy? I don't. Our armed forces are fine for our needs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,342 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    jhegarty wrote: »
    To defend from whom ?

    Spanish fishermen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭Ry


    The Russians. Why do other European countries have navies and air-forces? Ireland is a big gaping hole in the European defence perimeter.

    Yeh the Russians are just dying to kick some Irish ass. :rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭ShotgunPaddy


    Confab wrote: »
    It's on the wrong side of Europe for that. Besides, the UK can do our defending for us. The level of military expenditure you're talking about would cripple our budget and jack up taxes. Do you really want to pay for something so utterly useless to our economy? I don't. Our armed forces are fine for our needs.

    What about an Al-Qaeda suicide attack on international air traffic at Shannon or Dublin?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Given Ireland's lack of adequate naval and air defence, should we not look at partnering with another European state?
    I think every time it is ever hinted at military ties to Europe, the irish electorate crap themselves.

    Britain was, and in many respects still is a hostile nation
    They are actually the closest ally we have.
    Should we ask the French to station an aircraft carrier in the Shannon Estuary and share the running costs?
    Unless its an Airfix one Ireland cant afford to share the costs even if the french have a spare one they can afford to have sitting in the Shannon est.

    If you wanted this ask the Yanks to build a Airforce base. They can use the rubble of Irish Neutrality to lay the foundation of the runway.
    Share your thoughts.
    Ireland cant afford air defence. It would be nice but the piggy bank is empty.

    If cash was not an Issue sure a few Jets to protect the skies would be cool.

    In the case of terrorist attacks by plane. Well after 9/11 the British protected our airspace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭ShotgunPaddy


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    I think every time it is ever hinted at military ties to Europe, the irish electorate crap themselves.


    They are actually the closest ally we have.


    Unless its an Airfix one Ireland cant afford to share the costs even if the french have a spare one they can afford to have sitting in the Shannon est.

    If you wanted this ask the Yanks to build a Airforce base. They can use the rubble of Irish Neutrality to lay the foundation of the runway.


    Ireland cant afford air defence. It would be nice but the piggy bank is empty.

    If cash was not an Issue sure a few Jets to protect the skies would be cool.

    In the case of terrorist attacks by plane. Well after 9/11 the British protected our airspace.

    The British cannot be trusted. They have always put their own strategic national and economic interests first.

    Yes, cash is an issue. Perhaps we could take advantage of any Euro Navy developments and station a squadron off our coasts.

    Small countries need alliances. The Irish electorate need to be educated about the potential threats.

    Other European nations might object if we allowed American bases on Irish soil but that is still an option. I would have no objections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    every nation (with an IQ above the shoe size of its head of state) puts its own strategic interests first, second and third.

    no european nation would object to US /NATO air defence and Anti-Submarine/Maritime patrol assets operating from the south west coast - it would make NATO's western flank far more secure against interdiction of the Sea Lines of Communication.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,437 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    What about an Al-Qaeda suicide attack on international air traffic at Shannon or Dublin?

    You don't stop an Al-Qaeda attach with an aircraft carrier.

    They managed to attach successfully London and New York. Nothing we could manage would even come close to the defence of the UK/USA.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    people are talking as if ireland has a option,the republic has sold its soul for a few euros,any defence decisions will be made in brussels,already a quick response unit has been set up,irelands defence up to now has been covered [without the irish paying into it] by NATO ,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭force eleven


    jhegarty wrote: »
    To defend from whom ?

    Barroso :rolleyes:


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lol. What an idea. I wonder how long before this goes to Mr. Mitty's forum? :D

    In all seriousness, the UK is not the enemy she used to be. Besides, given our position between the UK and USA, I'd say 1 of those 2 would come and help if we needed it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    The British cannot be trusted. They have always put their own strategic national and economic interests first.

    Regardless of whether or not Britain can be trusted, Ireland is in Britain's strategic interests. A nasty communist or Islamist regime in Ireland is a direct threat to the UK, so Britain is never going to stand by and watch Ireland get taken over.

    I'm not sure what the big deal is though, an aggresive invader surely can't **** up the economy like Fianna fail did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Dacian


    What about an Al-Qaeda suicide attack on international air traffic at Shannon or Dublin?
    Most International Air Traffic is ABOVE Ireland. The current media savvy terrorist would go for a much more high profuile target than Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Omnipresence


    we need energy security
    we need more patrols to protect our waters (fishing drugs etc)

    long before we need anything else


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Sod the cheating French, they'd probably steal the Shannon! :D

    We should ask politely for the JFK and Corporal O'Dea could wax lyrical how he is putting the defence of his constituents as his number one priority!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    To defend from whom ?
    Britain was, and in many respects still is a hostile nation

    There's you answer, according to Shotgun Paddy to defend us from the British. hahahahahahaha,:rolleyes:

    Paddy this is 2009 not 1509.:( The British really don't want us back, they don't particularly want NI either but are stuck with it and lots of them would like to offload Scotland. In historical terms the English worried about Ireland been taken over by the French or Spanish thus presenting a danger to England itself. Ireland was a mere pawn in an international power struggle.

    Besides, we really don't need defending from anyone anymore, Russia, Al Qaeda or the aliens from the planet Zarg. We certainly wouldn't get any help from the French.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    we need energy security

    Has to Wiki this to find out what on earth it is? Can you elaborate on how the IDF should secure our energy needs?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ex_infantry man


    Dyflin wrote: »
    Has to Wiki this to find out what on earth it is? Can you elaborate on how the IDF should secure our energy needs?
    it would be something if we had nuclear power stations but we don,t!!!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Craigsy


    The Russians. .


    Someones been playing too much modern warfare 2 me thinks :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Besides, we really don't need defending from anyone anymore,.......... the aliens from the planet Zarg.

    Are you sure, or is that just what the Lizard people want you to think :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,342 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Are you sure, or is that just what the Lizard people want you to think :eek:

    Do not speak of the Lizard People lest we incur their wrath!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭ShotgunPaddy


    Maybe we should have a "European Union Naval Force Atlantic" operating out of Ireland like the "European Union Naval Force Somalia" mentioned in this artical.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8328757.stm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭ShotgunPaddy


    Lol. What an idea. I wonder how long before this goes to Mr. Mitty's forum? :D

    In all seriousness, the UK is not the enemy she used to be. Besides, given our position between the UK and USA, I'd say 1 of those 2 would come and help if we needed it.

    They would if they could. If the UK were under attack they would protect themselves first. The USA may be too far away to react quickly enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭ShotgunPaddy


    Dacian wrote: »
    Most International Air Traffic is ABOVE Ireland. The current media savvy terrorist would go for a much more high profuile target than Ireland.

    What about American military traffic at Shannon? I am surprised that the Americans did not insist on air cover. Maybe they will now after GCHQ read this post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭concussion


    Maybe we should have a "European Union Naval Force Atlantic" operating out of Ireland like the "European Union Naval Force Somalia" mentioned in this artical.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8328757.stm


    Good idea, lots of piracy off the Irish coast these days...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Dyflin wrote: »
    Has to Wiki this to find out what on earth it is? Can you elaborate on how the IDF should secure our energy needs?


    Well, the Israeli Defence Forces would take an awful long time to get here in an emergency, but maybe they can send The Zohan to take out the british nuclear reactors up and down their west coast :pac:

    seriously, i thought this was a serious thread about support FROM the british and was halfway through the answers when i reaslised you were looking for support to PROTECT us from the british :D

    laughable,

    this thread would like a mitty stamp on its passport!

    Dear lord in this day and age... i dunno, did you just climb out of the boot of marty macfly's delorien?!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Maybe we should have a "European Union Naval Force Atlantic" operating out of Ireland like the "European Union Naval Force Somalia" mentioned in this artical.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8328757.stm

    Maybe if the ports of Berehaven, Cobh (It could be renamed Queenstown) and Lough Swilly were given to the Royal Navy they could take the job on.

    That would be a good step forward for the state :D

    There is only one country in Europe with an Atlantic coast that has trouble patrolling it's waters. Why should the countries that have spent money on their navy cover for it, especially considering the amount of EU money that country has already received.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    They would if they could. If the UK were under attack they would protect themselves first. The USA may be too far away to react quickly enough.

    attack by who?

    If the UK was attacked, then the US and the rest of NATO would be obliged to chip in anyway, unless it was one of them doing the attacking, in which case, it is going to be pretty ****ing messy for Ireland anyway.


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