Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

gmisk · 31-10-2018 10:47AM

TBH I watched episode 1 of series 2....it just felt.....tasteless, the body being thrown in the car....nope I am done.

Series one skated over a lot of things that would paint Avery in a bad light (he asked for Halbach to come out and photograph the cars (she had previously called there - he had greeted her in a towel and "creeped" her out, he did this under a fake name...) he also called her directly on her mobile (using *67 to block his number)...weird, Avery was also physically abusive to his former wife and his fiancee, he has been accused of rape on two previous occasions.

I honestly think he is guilty as sin, but it is clear the evidence was manipulated to get a conviction.

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 11:30AM

gmisk wrote: »

I honestly think he is guilty as sin, but it is clear the evidence was manipulated to get a conviction.

And thats the crux of the case. He may well be guilty I dont believe he is. But a set up is a set up. In justice the end result never justifies the means as it removes confidence in the justice system should an authority feel the need to tamper with evidence and investigation to secure a conviction.

walshb · 31-10-2018 11:44AM

gmisk wrote: »

TBH I watched episode 1 of series 2....it just felt.....tasteless, the body being thrown in the car....nope I am done.

Series one skated over a lot of things that would paint Avery in a bad light (he asked for Halbach to come out and photograph the cars (she had previously called there - he had greeted her in a towel and "creeped" her out, he did this under a fake name...) he also called her directly on her mobile (using *67 to block his number)...weird, Avery was also physically abusive to his former wife and his fiancee, he has been accused of rape on two previous occasions.

I honestly think he is guilty as sin, but it is clear the evidence was manipulated to get a conviction.

This is it......

We are meant to believe that all this incriminating happenings are just one big coincidence, and that she then happened to be butchered by someone other than Avery? It's preposterous to think that the "stars" aligned like this to convict an innocent man.....

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 11:51AM

walshb wrote: »

This is it......

We are meant to believe that all this incriminating happenings are just one big coincidence, and that she then happened to be butchered by someone other than Avery? It's preposterous to think that the "stars" aligned like this to convict an innocent man.....

Read the entire post you just quoted.

walshb · 31-10-2018 11:52AM

Commanchie wrote: »

Read the entire post you just quoted.

Not with you, pal! Help me out, please!

Sorry, I am with you.......I know....

Anyway, I was more agreeing with the guilty as sin. I'll keep watching.

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 11:55AM

walshb wrote: »

Not with you, pal! Help me out, please!

Sorry, I am with you.......I know....

Anyway, I was more agreeing with the guilty as sin. I'll keep watching.

Thats fine you agree with Guilty as sin, Nobody is knocking that what I am knocking is the denial of due process.

walshb · 31-10-2018 11:58AM

Commanchie wrote: »

Thats fine you agree with Guilty as sin, Nobody is knocking that what I am knocking is the denial of due process.

I have no issue with agreeing with issues concerning the whole affair and trial. I get all that. I do not get the whole "he is innocent," as in he did not commit the crime. He did. How they convicted him can be debated all day.

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 12:05PM

walshb wrote: »

I have no issue with agreeing with issues concerning the whole affair and trial. I get all that. I do not get the whole "he is innocent," as in he did not commit the crime. He did. How they convicted him can be debated all day.

But cause there has been proven lies, Mistruths, evidence tampering and witholding of evidence (Which has been proven and accepted in the 7th circuit by AG and judges) it brings the verdict of an unsafe conviction. This is the legal call- Even if you witnessed SA tie her to the bed and rape and shoot her.

Mountainsandh · 31-10-2018 02:54PM

Thing is too, that the whole family are no angels. I haven't looked it up in details, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bobby and Scott both had their own fine stash of convictions.
On that basis you could probably argue that the least likely to reoffend would be Steven, when he's had more than a taste of jail, and he about to get money for the wrongful conviction.

Sure, he hid the number, he must have known the Avery residence is not anyone's favourite place to go. He may well have been a bit sleazy with Teresa when he opened the door in a towel, just like Kratz can send sleazy sexts without having murdered the nymph.
Being sleazy doesn't mean he's automatically a murderer, just like Bobbys internet history is not enough to make him a murderer either.

Edit : although I would argue that looking up dead girls putrefying is more of a red flag to me than parading your hairy beer gut at a girl.

Uncharted · 31-10-2018 03:46PM

Here's some massive generalisation........
The Avery family seem "odd" as a whole.

There's certainly a hillbilly,school of life, redneck vibe off them.

"Cleetus the slack jawed yokel" characters,one and all.

But on top of all that,almost comedic stuff regarding the carry on of the family,I find something weird and dark about Bobby Dassey and Scott. Two creeps that stand out in a family of oddballs,and that's sayin something!

Maxpfizer · 31-10-2018 04:59PM

walshb wrote: »

Look, if Avery came out and admitted to the killing you would still have people arguing about how he was convicted..

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

Anyway, as it stands the authorities are satisfied that justice was served fairly, and this documentary in all its bias has not changed that view.

You are only considering one part of "the end" here.

Sure, if they got the guy that actually did it then that's OK. Unless the cost of getting the guy is to publicly destroy the credibility and trustworthiness of the system.

I would say that the documentary casts significant doubt onto almost every piece of evidence in the case BUT to me it looks like it was law enforcement themselves that allowed that doubt to creep in.

So if you look at the case against Avery you have to ask if the authorities have accidentally introduced all of this uncertainty.

We can all agree that it's not a straightforward case? I would say the fact that this case is so unusual that someone decided to make a documentary about it AND managed to come up with a solid 20 hours of content says a lot on it's own.

If Avery came out and admitted it then I'm guessing that confession would exonerate Dassey?

Surely for most people the main take away here is that the prosecutions story of what happened is definitely not what really happened?

Do you believe Brendan Dassey's confession is true?

It seems to me that you would either believe Dasseys confession is true and so would have to explain the lack of evidence or you believe that Dasseys confession is false and so a part of "the ends justify the means" is that an innocent 16 year old kid going to prison is acceptable collateral damage.

Maxpfizer · 31-10-2018 05:07PM

Uncharted wrote: »

Bobby Dassey has a lot of questions to answer imo.

Something they didn't make clear in the documentary was the actual legality of the searches he had made and the legality of any content found on his computer.

Have the police actually looked at his computer and seen some awful, and illegal, stuff but decided to never arrest and prosecute him over that?

It just seemed like they found all this stuff and just ignored it because he was their "star witness".

Wouldn't they be obligated to arrest and charge him anyway?

Who knows what he's been involved in since 2005. Wouldn't someone like this be a person the authorities would want to look into?

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 05:10PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Something they didn't make clear in the documentary was the actual legality of the searches he had made and the legality of any content found on his computer.

Have the police actually looked at his computer and seen some awful, and illegal, stuff but decided to never arrest and prosecute him over that?

It just seemed like they found all this stuff and just ignored it because he was their "star witness".

Wouldn't they be obligated to arrest and charge him anyway?

Who knows what he's been involved in since 2005. Wouldn't someone like this be a person the authorities would want to look into?

There was child porn images, A search for T Halbach, T Galbach (on the day she visited) and then videos of women raped and murdered. Before and after her murder

Maxpfizer · 31-10-2018 05:22PM

Commanchie wrote: »

There was child porn images, A search for T Halbach, T Galbach (on the day she visited) and then videos of women raped and murdered. Before and after her murder

So that essentially means that the police found these images on his computer and decided "we need to cover that up".

I'm not saying that any of these things mean that Bobby Dassey did it. For the cops to see this kind of stuff and deliberately look the other way is a massive scandal in itself. Who knows how much more of this stuff Bobby Dassey has potentially acquired and shared since 2005.

A very disturbing aspect of this is the question of where Brendan came up with some of the imagery in his confession if it can be considered to be false. We know for sure some of the things that were being searched for and some of the images that were being viewed in their home around that time. It's not inconceivable that Brendan had seen some of these images.

Weird coincidence that Brendans brother is searching for all of this stuff in the weeks and days surrounding the time when Brendan is supposedly witnessing similar in real life. It's WAY too suspicious.

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 05:33PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

So that essentially means that the police found these images on his computer and decided "we need to cover that up".

I'm not saying that any of these things mean that Bobby Dassey did it. For the cops to see this kind of stuff and deliberately look the other way is a massive scandal in itself. Who knows how much more of this stuff Bobby Dassey has potentially acquired and shared since 2005.

A very disturbing aspect of this is the question of where Brendan came up with some of the imagery in his confession if it can be considered to be false. We know for sure some of the things that were being searched for and some of the images that were being viewed in their home around that time. It's not inconceivable that Brendan had seen some of these images.

Weird coincidence that Brendans brother is searching for all of this stuff in the weeks and days surrounding the time when Brendan is supposedly witnessing similar in real life. It's WAY too suspicious.

There was memorium locum taken in a US court to ommit these reports as the hard drive wasnt able to be assessed at a time when needed.

Jerry Buting questioned bobby on the times of all these searches on the computer Brendan is recorded in class.

Tipsy McSwagger · 31-10-2018 06:01PM

Well I just watched Season 2 Ep1. First things first, Kathleen Zellner looks like Michael Jackson and it’s freaking me out. Second there was nothing in that episode to shake my belief Avery is 100% guilty. I still believe Avery murdered Teresa and coerced Brendan Dassey in helping him clean up the crime scene. I don’t believe Dassey raped or murdered Teresa. I felt genuine hatred anytime Avery was talking but a lot of pity for Dassey.

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 06:03PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Well I just watched Season 2 Ep1. First things first, Kathleen Zellner looks like Michael Jackson and it’s freaking me out. Second there was nothing in that episode to shake my belief Avery is 100% guilty. I still believe Avery murdered Teresa and coerced Brendan Dassey in helping him clean up the crime scene. I don’t believe Dassey raped or murdered Teresa. I felt genuine hatred anytime Avery was talking but a lot of pity for Dassey.

Thats good cause EP 1 2 or 3 wont dent that for you. If you still havent opened your eyes at 4,5,6,7 ill leave the debating with you as even the prosecution have doubted it after it in the SA appellant.

Mountainsandh · 31-10-2018 06:27PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Something they didn't make clear in the documentary was the actual legality of the searches he had made and the legality of any content found on his computer.

Have the police actually looked at his computer and seen some awful, and illegal, stuff but decided to never arrest and prosecute him over that?

It just seemed like they found all this stuff and just ignored it because he was their "star witness".

Wouldn't they be obligated to arrest and charge him anyway?

Who knows what he's been involved in since 2005. Wouldn't someone like this be a person the authorities would want to look into?

First off, I have to say I'm ok with being labelled the "obsessive weirdo who can't let go". I'll own that one.

I am kind of working my way through the CASOS reports pdf file.

https://archive.org/stream/CASOInvestigativeReportRedacted/CASO-Investigative-Report_redacted_djvu.txt

it's 1116 pages long so I'm only at the beginning and don't think I'll finish.

On the subject of Bobby, just last night I was a little shocked at the report of the cop who passed on the computer to the relevant department.
His report is that he was handed the computer in the evening by whoever got it, it's not reported how they collected it, and he kept it overnight at home and handed it over the next morning to the people who were going to analyze it.

Isn't that a bit strange ?
A cop who gets the computer, and keeps it at home overnight ?
Wouldn't he have been able to delete files as he saw fit ?

Another thing that bothered me is I heard someone, I can't remember who it was, saying they didn't quite know when Bobby had accessed some stuff, that he had sorted images into folders, but they couldn't tell when he did that.

Isn't there a time stamp on every image you download, and every folder you create ? isn't that pretty basic information, easily got ? surely that was the same at the time ?

edit : I'm going to look for the report I mention above and note the page or put a link to it here in the edit for anyone interested.

Ok I have it, it's page 55 (top right corner), and the cop is DEDERING.

Uncharted · 31-10-2018 06:46PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Well I just watched Season 2 Ep1. First things first, Kathleen Zellner looks like Michael Jackson and it’s freaking me out. Second there was nothing in that episode to shake my belief Avery is 100% guilty. I still believe Avery murdered Teresa and coerced Brendan Dassey in helping him clean up the crime scene. I don’t believe Dassey raped or murdered Teresa. I felt genuine hatred anytime Avery was talking but a lot of pity for Dassey.

You've watched ONE episode and are ready to hold steadfastly to your opinion?

Would you pay into the cinema,watch 15 minutes of the start of a movie and then complain about the cinematography at the ending ??!!?

It's ludicrous!

There are 10 episodes for a reason,the story and the case unfolds as it progresses..... it really gets going in episode 3. So can you please watch the whole thing and then give a rounded opinion.

Regardless of what you choose to believe then,at least you will know what youre talking about. :rolleyes:

Potential Underachiever · 31-10-2018 07:18PM

Just about to re-watch the scene when Barb, Tadych and Avery are on a 3 way call and it gets extremely heated, I haven't noticed much chat on here about it, anyone got any opinions? I'll check back in later

Mam of 4 · 31-10-2018 07:21PM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Just about to re-watch the scene when Barb, Tadych and Avery are on a 3 way call and it gets extremely heated, I haven't noticed much chat on here about it, anyone got any opinions? I'll check back in later

I thought Scotts outburst was quite telling , not how I'd respond/react tbh . I'd be in flat out denial mode .

retro:electro · 31-10-2018 07:24PM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Just about to re-watch the scene when Barb, Tadych and Avery are on a 3 way call and it gets extremely heated, I haven't noticed much chat on here about it, anyone got any opinions? I'll check back in later

My first impression was Jesus maybe Brendan is better off away from these people. But listening again I thought Steven was really composed and rational. Barb lying about having internet connection was curious, I get the impression she’d lie for them all. Scott showed his true self. He seems to have a lot of anger under the surface. It was interesting that Barb’s response was “he was with me all day!” not “he would never do such a thing” when Steven queried whether or not Scott could be involved.

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 07:28PM

retro:electro wrote: »

My first impression was Jesus maybe Brendan is better off away from these people. But listening again I thought Steven was really composed and rational. Barb lying about having internet connection was curious, I get the impression she’d lie for them all. Scott showed his true self. He seems to have a lot of anger under the surface. It was interesting that Barb’s response was “he was with me all day!” not “he would never do such a thing” when Steven queried whether or not Scott could be involved.

What the documentary doesnt show that was read into transcripts for the denny was he wssnt with her 1 till 5.30

Potential Underachiever · 31-10-2018 07:44PM

Having trouble locating it, anyone know off hand what episode it is?

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 07:55PM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Having trouble locating it, anyone know off hand what episode it is?

Part 2 EP 1 or 2

Potential Underachiever · 31-10-2018 08:07PM

Commanchie wrote: »

Part 2 EP 1 or 2

It's actually episode 10 season 2.

Interesting call alright, definitely shows Tadych can't stand Avery, also admissions made that Halbach was seen leaving the property by Bobby Dassey contrary to what he said in court.

mad m · 31-10-2018 08:15PM

Ok its gone

to the high court, they are saying that’s the last chance saloon. Where else can the lawyers go with it?

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 08:15PM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

It's actually episode 10 season 2.

Interesting call alright, definitely shows Tadych can't stand Avery, also admissions made that Halbach was seen leaving the property by Bobby Dassey contrary to what he said in court.

Is it not in 1 too. Where barb wtf is kathleen doing?

Commanchie · 31-10-2018 09:12PM

mad m wrote: »

Ok its gone
to the high court, they are saying that’s the last chance saloon. Where else can the lawyers go with it?

Supreme court.

bazermc · 31-10-2018 09:21PM

RIP Teresa Halbach. Anniversary of her death today. Important not to forget there was a life lost here.

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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