nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Also Starring LeVar Burton

New 10-Part Documentary on Netflix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxgbdYaR_KQ

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Maxpfizer

Uncharted wrote: »

Bobby Dassey has a lot of questions to answer imo.

Something they didn't make clear in the documentary was the actual legality of the searches he had made and the legality of any content found on his computer.

Have the police actually looked at his computer and seen some awful, and illegal, stuff but decided to never arrest and prosecute him over that?

It just seemed like they found all this stuff and just ignored it because he was their "star witness".

Wouldn't they be obligated to arrest and charge him anyway?

Who knows what he's been involved in since 2005. Wouldn't someone like this be a person the authorities would want to look into?

Maxpfizer

walshb wrote: »

Look, if Avery came out and admitted to the killing you would still have people arguing about how he was convicted..

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

Anyway, as it stands the authorities are satisfied that justice was served fairly, and this documentary in all its bias has not changed that view.

You are only considering one part of "the end" here.

Sure, if they got the guy that actually did it then that's OK. Unless the cost of getting the guy is to publicly destroy the credibility and trustworthiness of the system.

I would say that the documentary casts significant doubt onto almost every piece of evidence in the case BUT to me it looks like it was law enforcement themselves that allowed that doubt to creep in.

So if you look at the case against Avery you have to ask if the authorities have accidentally introduced all of this uncertainty.

We can all agree that it's not a straightforward case? I would say the fact that this case is so unusual that someone decided to make a documentary about it AND managed to come up with a solid 20 hours of content says a lot on it's own.

If Avery came out and admitted it then I'm guessing that confession would exonerate Dassey?

Surely for most people the main take away here is that the prosecutions story of what happened is definitely not what really happened?

Do you believe Brendan Dassey's confession is true?

It seems to me that you would either believe Dasseys confession is true and so would have to explain the lack of evidence or you believe that Dasseys confession is false and so a part of "the ends justify the means" is that an innocent 16 year old kid going to prison is acceptable collateral damage.

Uncharted

Here's some massive generalisation........
The Avery family seem "odd" as a whole.

There's certainly a hillbilly,school of life, redneck vibe off them.

"Cleetus the slack jawed yokel" characters,one and all.

But on top of all that,almost comedic stuff regarding the carry on of the family,I find something weird and dark about Bobby Dassey and Scott. Two creeps that stand out in a family of oddballs,and that's sayin something!

Mountainsandh

Thing is too, that the whole family are no angels. I haven't looked it up in details, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bobby and Scott both had their own fine stash of convictions.
On that basis you could probably argue that the least likely to reoffend would be Steven, when he's had more than a taste of jail, and he about to get money for the wrongful conviction.

Sure, he hid the number, he must have known the Avery residence is not anyone's favourite place to go. He may well have been a bit sleazy with Teresa when he opened the door in a towel, just like Kratz can send sleazy sexts without having murdered the nymph.
Being sleazy doesn't mean he's automatically a murderer, just like Bobbys internet history is not enough to make him a murderer either.

Edit : although I would argue that looking up dead girls putrefying is more of a red flag to me than parading your hairy beer gut at a girl.

Commanchie

walshb wrote: »

I have no issue with agreeing with issues concerning the whole affair and trial. I get all that. I do not get the whole "he is innocent," as in he did not commit the crime. He did. How they convicted him can be debated all day.

But cause there has been proven lies, Mistruths, evidence tampering and witholding of evidence (Which has been proven and accepted in the 7th circuit by AG and judges) it brings the verdict of an unsafe conviction. This is the legal call- Even if you witnessed SA tie her to the bed and rape and shoot her.

walshb

Commanchie wrote: »

Thats fine you agree with Guilty as sin, Nobody is knocking that what I am knocking is the denial of due process.

I have no issue with agreeing with issues concerning the whole affair and trial. I get all that. I do not get the whole "he is innocent," as in he did not commit the crime. He did. How they convicted him can be debated all day.

Commanchie

walshb wrote: »

Not with you, pal! Help me out, please!

Sorry, I am with you.......I know....

Anyway, I was more agreeing with the guilty as sin. I'll keep watching.

Thats fine you agree with Guilty as sin, Nobody is knocking that what I am knocking is the denial of due process.

walshb

Commanchie wrote: »

Read the entire post you just quoted.

Not with you, pal! Help me out, please!

Sorry, I am with you.......I know....

Anyway, I was more agreeing with the guilty as sin. I'll keep watching.

Commanchie

walshb wrote: »

This is it......

We are meant to believe that all this incriminating happenings are just one big coincidence, and that she then happened to be butchered by someone other than Avery? It's preposterous to think that the "stars" aligned like this to convict an innocent man.....

Read the entire post you just quoted.

walshb

gmisk wrote: »

TBH I watched episode 1 of series 2....it just felt.....tasteless, the body being thrown in the car....nope I am done.

Series one skated over a lot of things that would paint Avery in a bad light (he asked for Halbach to come out and photograph the cars (she had previously called there - he had greeted her in a towel and "creeped" her out, he did this under a fake name...) he also called her directly on her mobile (using *67 to block his number)...weird, Avery was also physically abusive to his former wife and his fiancee, he has been accused of rape on two previous occasions.

I honestly think he is guilty as sin, but it is clear the evidence was manipulated to get a conviction.

This is it......

We are meant to believe that all this incriminating happenings are just one big coincidence, and that she then happened to be butchered by someone other than Avery? It's preposterous to think that the "stars" aligned like this to convict an innocent man.....

Commanchie

gmisk wrote: »

I honestly think he is guilty as sin, but it is clear the evidence was manipulated to get a conviction.

And thats the crux of the case. He may well be guilty I dont believe he is. But a set up is a set up. In justice the end result never justifies the means as it removes confidence in the justice system should an authority feel the need to tamper with evidence and investigation to secure a conviction.

gmisk

TBH I watched episode 1 of series 2....it just felt.....tasteless, the body being thrown in the car....nope I am done.

Series one skated over a lot of things that would paint Avery in a bad light (he asked for Halbach to come out and photograph the cars (she had previously called there - he had greeted her in a towel and "creeped" her out, he did this under a fake name...) he also called her directly on her mobile (using *67 to block his number)...weird, Avery was also physically abusive to his former wife and his fiancee, he has been accused of rape on two previous occasions.

I honestly think he is guilty as sin, but it is clear the evidence was manipulated to get a conviction.

Uncharted

Bobby Dassey has a lot of questions to answer imo.
Both he and Scott seem to have a dark cloud over their whereabouts and activity around the time of Teresa's visit to Avery road.

I think they will feature a LOT in series 3.

Brock Turnpike

mad m wrote: »

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yeah it does a bit, but those trailers have limited heating and especially in a bathroom it may have taken a while before blood dried up? But if you look at the smudge at ignition key, it does look as if it was put on with a cotton bud as you see the main indent a bud would leave then the smudge.

She also mentioned that wherever was involved knew that there would on Steven's finger had reopened. And Steven has said he was with Bobby when the wound reopened.

Separately to the above. I don't think I've seen it mentioned as to how half hearted the police interview was with Bobby about him lying at trial. Essentially steering him to not say anything as they wouldn't want to him to get in trouble.

Uriel.

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Look at it this way, Steven supposedly killed her in the garage,knifed and raped her in the bedroom,slitting her throat right! Blood everywhere... Curiously not one drop found in either place, despite no forensic clean up.

But blood found in the dodgy RAV4 finding ... Naaaaa,not for me.

Yeah imagine having the wherewithal to clean up what could only have been a very gruesome crime scene with significant blood that included moving a person, that had her cut throat cut and a variety of other injuries, to another room and then finishing them off with a gun shot at close proximity. Imagine cleaning up all that to leave no trace behind, some effort.... Get rid of all but some small fragments of bone....

But then don't bother wearing gloves when you're moving the vehicle... Even leaving aside a cut on his finger, surely he'd be worried about finger prints etc.

Left no finger prints tho just high volumes of DNA and blood in/on the car.

Maybe Brendan is a genius and cleaned up the trailer to perfection but Steve.. Jesus Steve all you had to do was hide the car. One job Steve, one job.

Uncharted

Cina wrote: »

Found the first two episodes of season two pretty pointless and dull so far.

Does it get better?

It definitely builds momentum as it goes. Stick with it. I'll be watching it all again over the next week or two.

Cina

Found the first two episodes of season two pretty pointless and dull so far.

Does it get better?

tony1kenobi

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

My question was to the MOD

Perhaps Commanchie read half of your question and decided that was enough information to answer it correctly.

marklazarcovic

Look at it this way, Steven supposedly killed her in the garage,knifed and raped her in the bedroom,slitting her throat right! Blood everywhere... Curiously not one drop found in either place, despite no forensic clean up.

But blood found in the dodgy RAV4 finding ... Naaaaa,not for me.

Mountainsandh

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yeah I get that, but it has to be said that on initial searches of the trailer, the cops took note that there was blood on the door frame into Steven's trailer. Of course at the time they might have thought it was Teresa's blood, but when it turned out there wasn't blood anywhere else, and Steven had a cut, knowing there were bits here and there around the trailer might have seeded an idea.

I don't agree with KZ that the killer is the one to have harvested and planted blood. That seems far fetched to me.

But I do believe that cops may have come back on the sly to collect DNA for themselves, just to have it up their sleeve so to speak, and happened upon the blood. If they were after exactly that type of DNA/forensic material, they may well have had the equipment to do it.

KZ reckons the hood latch & key were probably rubbed with a toothbrush, and I think I saw somewhere that according to Steven, it had also gone missing.

mad m

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yeah it does a bit, but those trailers have limited heating and especially in a bathroom it may have taken a while before blood dried up? But if you look at the smudge at ignition key, it does look as if it was put on with a cotton bud as you see the main indent a bud would leave then the smudge.

the whole year inn

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yea ,do the cops/who ever see the blood and then get the viles and carefully put the drops of blood into them.
I think there is room for a retrial, I cant beleive a key cant be found at a locker in a search that would take minutes instead of days.What search party signed off their names for that,its probably the first place I would look .

orangerhyme

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Field east

retro:electro wrote: »

Not sure in all honesty. Sometimes I think he did it and then I find myself being convinced otherwise. I have doubt about it, which is why I would acquit him if I was a selected juror. That’s not me being obtuse to avoid answering your question by the way, those are my genuine thoughts on the case. I can’t tell if he was involved or not. My personal opinion on him would lead me to believe he was probably capable of it but my personal opinion is irrelevant in a court of law. I think the way it was managed was outrageous.

Now yourself?

Why do you say that he was probably capable of killing Theresa H. Is it because he did something similar/ near similar in the past; or that he has a history of subduing women ;was into bondage activities ; or is it that he would have the strength to do it- she being of slim build and he being quiet muscular / big framed or is it his general facial expression or what? . I have watched all episodes and nothing jumped out at me to indicate that he would be capable of killing Theresa apart from the strength to do it. That would apply to most men.
Avery had no motive to harm Theresa while at least two others might have had

mad m

Stevie should employ Howard Greenberg from “Last chance lawyer” on BBC 2 on sundays.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2018/41/last-chance-lawyer

Great show.

walshb

Believing that Dassey and Avery killed her I would feel nothing for Dassey for the way he was treated...

They’re cops interrogating a person they believe to be a killer. They’re not there to be all nicely nice. Their interrogation:confession extraction was found to be just and safe..they passed the test...

So, Dassey’s my brother and I feel he is innocent I wouldn’t be happy with his interrogation/treatment, but I would understand where the cops are coming from.

If I felt Dassey (my brother) was guilty/involved then as far as I would be concerned they could beat a confession out of him to get justice for that poor woman..

bazermc

Ah jeeze here we go again.

mad m

The real eye opener for me was the ex coroners statement. Sheriff said they’d arrest her if she went out to crime scene and drop it because of the 36mil lawsuit, conflict of interest

retro:electro

walshb wrote: »

Do you believe Avery killed the lady? Yes or no?

Not sure in all honesty. Sometimes I think he did it and then I find myself being convinced otherwise. I have doubt about it, which is why I would acquit him if I was a selected juror. That’s not me being obtuse to avoid answering your question by the way, those are my genuine thoughts on the case. I can’t tell if he was involved or not. My personal opinion on him would lead me to believe he was probably capable of it but my personal opinion is irrelevant in a court of law. I think the way it was managed was outrageous.

Now yourself?

walshb

retro:electro wrote: »

Huh? I believe Steven should have been acquitted as there was more than enough reasonable doubt.
Brendan had nothing to do with it.
(A quick read over any [/] of my posts would have told you that.

Now you.

Do you believe Avery killed the lady? Yes or no?