Should self inflicted wounded people use our A&E departments?

banie01 · 28-10-2018 10:38am

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

Firstly this has to be the most stupid thing I’ve ever read.

You must not read many of Andy's posts then?

Captain Obvious · 28-10-2018 10:50am

Jack Dee got you covered op.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drhkVKlHWZI

Skip to 3.20 for ops issue

blairbear · 28-10-2018 10:58am

OP, I am not going to read through all of this silliness but as an ED doctor, you do realise that we WANT to see the patients you described? They are traumas. Emergency Medicine as a training specialty is primarily geared towards seeing these traumas. We don't like that patients have been injured but we enjoy treating them and helping them. You must have been very bored to start this thread. You haven't a notion what you're on about.

RhubarbCrumble · 28-10-2018 11:01am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

HSE A&E departments across the land choc a block with waiting hours sometimes around the 4hour wait. The name is 'accident and emergency'

if someone decides to run a marathon ( ) and falls down due to exhaustion or has a heart attack , is that an accident?

No pet, that's an emergency, as mentioned above and if you've only ever had to wait 4 hours in A&E then you're a lucky man indeed!

Lucyfur · 28-10-2018 11:20am

I love that you class jogging as a dangerous activity

Also, how the feck do you accidentally swallow a Lego?!

Was in a+e last night with my daughter. Seen by the nurse immediately. Brought from there to a cubicle straight away and a doctor was with us in minutes. They couldn't have done more for her and they were also so so kind to a frightened little girl.

manonboard · 28-10-2018 11:23am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

If someone chooses to climb a mountain and falls and hurts themselves , is that an accident?

Yes.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

If someone gets blind drunk and falls over and hurt themselves or gets into a fight , is that an accident ?

Yes.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if someone decides to run a marathon ( ) and falls down due to exhaustion or has a heart attack , is that an accident?

Yes.

Your post defeats itself.

Pac1Man · 28-10-2018 11:33am

Andy we all know by now that you intentionally post bollix for amusement and engage in the replies (from newer users) to keep the charade going.

retro:electro · 28-10-2018 11:40am

What if I get an aneurysm from reading one of your scuthery threads. Whose fault is that

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-10-2018 11:41am

Has Andy been back to defend his idea or has he realised it was a really **** idea and just too embarrassed to reopen the thread?

Captain Obvious · 28-10-2018 11:42am

Lucyfur wrote: »

I love that you class jogging as a dangerous activity

Also, how the feck do you accidentally swallow a Lego?!

Was in a+e last night with my daughter. Seen by the nurse immediately. Brought from there to a cubicle straight away and a doctor was with us in minutes. They couldn't have done more for her and they were also so so kind to a frightened little girl.

By being a child?

Sonics2k · 28-10-2018 11:43am

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Has Andy been back to defend his idea or has he realised it was a really **** idea and just too embarrassed to reopen the thread?

I think we all know by now that Andy rarely, if ever, comes back to his threads.

He just spends some time thinking of the silliest ideas and then posts it, usually something nice and controversial.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:40pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think we all know by now that Andy rarely, if ever, comes back to his threads.

He just spends some time thinking of the silliest ideas and then posts it, usually something nice and controversial.

I beg your pardon I have been asleep. I have not yet found a way to check replies whilst my eyes are closed...

28-10-2018 12:41pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I beg your pardon I have been asleep. I have not yet found a way to check replies whilst my eyes are closed...

Asleep till half 11 in the day the cut of you.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:50pm

I haven't said others should not be treated, like some people have been citing on here, I have merely mentioned that if it has been probable that the person has brought about the injury by themselves that maybe they should be shipped (not literally) to either another department or a private hospital for treatment and pick up the tab. Leave the HSE A&E to others who find themselves in there through no fault of their own.

There has to be something radically done because it has gotten so bad and will only get worse. We have already established that there are not enough doctors and nurses in a&e to cope and they are getting jobs abroad, and then it has been acknowledged further up in the thread by someone that there should be something to separate the drunks coming into A&E to get treatment by what they are doing in Australia.

Some people don't seem to grasp that when other things have been tried , like money thrown at the health service and getting more doctors and nurses that if that still fails and there are more than 4 hours of waiting time in A&E then some other radical ideas have to be thought up!

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:51pm

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

Asleep till half 11 in the day the cut of you.

Its 10am old time .. And its Sunday. What's your problem with that? Was you up at 5am this morning?

KERSPLAT! · 28-10-2018 12:54pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Its 10am old time .. And its Sunday. What's your problem with that? Was you up at 5am this morning?

That's a strange timezone you're in

Signore Fancy Pants · 28-10-2018 12:55pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

That's a strange timezone you're in

Leave him alone.

Andy lives in a fantasyland and he can have whatever time he wants!

Lyle Lanley · 28-10-2018 1:00pm

Of all your ridiculous ideas, this one ranks somewhere in the middle.

Chancer3001 · 28-10-2018 1:05pm

Only treat people who get into difficulty in bed.

If you CHOOSE to get up in the morning then you CHOSE to be in danger.

Actually only treat people who eat well and in bed. If you CHOSE to eat fatty foods...then you CHOSE to be at risk.

Actually eating in bed is probabaly unsanitary. If you CHOSE to eat your meals in bed and now have a bacterial infection...is THAT AN ACCIDENT ?

fek it. Close all the hospitals. Stop wasting TAX PAYER MONEY on these selfish people .

Big Bag of Chips · 28-10-2018 1:11pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont have to go to A&E to know that there are big problems and people waiting in corridors on trolleys waiting to be seen - sure I hear it on the news loads of times - overcrowded A&E departments

People in corridors and in trolleys have been seen, and are being treated. If they were waiting to be seen they'd be in the waiting area. The clue really is in the name.

Overcrowded doesnt mean the patients aren't being treated. Overcrowded means more people than the facility can comfortably cater for are being seen.

angel eyes 2012 · 28-10-2018 1:17pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not true. I was charged €100 recently before being seen.

You are usually charged the €100 upfront. If you are admitted to the hospital you can then seek a refund. I did after waiting 12 hours on the floor of one A&E (no chairs or trolleys left), I was admitted as an in-patient and sought a refund of the €100 after discharge from the hospital.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/3/acutehospitals/hospitals/hospitalcharges.html

28-10-2018 1:18pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Its 10am old time .. And its Sunday. What's your problem with that? Was you up at 5am this morning?

I didn’t sleep I was too busy wasting A&E resources to spite you.

Timmaay · 28-10-2018 1:18pm

If I wrapped myself in enough cotton wool and avoided absolutely every situation that might land me in hospital with a self influenced injury I'd very quickly become so depressed that I'd have to go clog up a bed in a mental institution.

28-10-2018 1:28pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Why are we chocking up A&E departments with all and sundry people who for want of a better word has caused their own injury...?

This thread is not your finest hour, Andy.

But no, people who try to take their own lives or drink themselves into oblivion on a quotidian basis should be attending an A&E which has a speciality for mental health issues. There should be an A&E attached to the nearest Mental hospital where they could offer them the help they need.

Instead, such people end up not only in the local A&E but in the local Garda station for their own protection (there was a really poignant documentary on RTÉ about 2 years ago following a guy in Port Laoise who recounted how he used to walk into his local Garda station, explain how he was feeling and just ask could he sit there all night until the fear passed over). Mental health services in Ireland are stunningly poor.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:38pm

cbreeze wrote: »

Beaumont - fresh tomato soup and egg sandwiches and tea, coffee and biscuits

eeew! and could you eat it there and then in the A&E waiting room? - I bet that was lovely for all the other ill people in the waiting room smelling soup and egg sandwiches!

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:43pm

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Of all your ridiculous ideas, this one ranks somewhere in the middle.

I will take that as a compliment

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:53pm

wow - reading through some of these answers people have really picked it all apart and dissected it all very thoroughly - well done!

maybe I should have have picked my offerings of a solution maybe apart as extensively as others have on here -

So, OK - i get it (I did mention that a few posts back) i get it, my Idea was a silly Idea when you actually sit down and try and work out who has inflicted their own injuries and of those that were a complete and utter accident of their own that they couldnt have avoided.

All i am worried about today now is , have I got any black and white pudding to go along with my fry-up today.. I dont think so, I shall have to pop out and get some...

doolox · 28-10-2018 1:56pm

Because the government are involved heavily and expensively in health care they should provide information and advertisement campaigns to provide people with all the necessary information to steer towards safe choices. The drinks industry caused huge furore and blocked the minimum prices law for alcohol. I do not think this law will work because alcohol in this country is not price sensitive. People will drink no matter what the cost. The minimum prices law should be able to yield extra money for the Government to spend on health education and care of alcohol related disease in the community and the money should not be diverted to anything else. The tragedy is that the minimum prices law is not a tax but will serve to increase the profits of brewers, distillers and bottlers and also the profits of suppliers and retailers. The government only benefits by increased VAT and taxes on the increased profits and this disappears in to the general tax account to be used for good knows what.

There should be an on-street first aid stations for drunks who fall foul of drinking too much, paid for by the pubs and clubs. There should be a register of drink related incidents to find out which premises are doling out too much drink to some clients although with multiple visits to a lot of pubs by a particular group or individual, it might be hard to trace which pub over served a client and caused a health incident.

Similar setups should be arranged for large sporting occasions and anywhere dangerous activities are carried out. A and E should be kept relatively free and available regardless of the weekend or the presence of festivals, sporting events etc which seem to incur a large number of casualties.

Another source of accidents is DIY and other house maintenance activities. These should be heavily regulated and monitored especially regarding the use of electricity and gas etc and the use of power tools such as chainsaws and sharp powertools and working at heights without proper training and advice.

Plant hire business should be made to hire out safety gear and personal protective equipment and issue advisory leaflets with hired out equipment.

Finally there is a group of people who do actually self inflict harm on themselves due to mental health issues and are more to be supported and helped through life rather than be castigated for some wrong doing as perceived by general society. These people need the support, understanding and alleviation of stress in their lives rather than be judged as duds or wrongdoers.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 2:23pm

if there isnt already there needs to be some kind of annual statistical lists that each A&E can look at and investigate as to what the biggest issues people present themselves to A&E departments with .... and also put it out to the public , publish it on the Internet.

The health and safety executive have been publishing for years on their website about accidents in the workplace including fatalities - it might make the public more aware and give people a better understanding of why the departments can get so overcrowded at times.

the_syco · 28-10-2018 2:34pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

it could help to cut down A&E waiting times greatly for those that really need it?

Ban travellers and drunks, and the wait time would be cut considerably in a few A&E's!

wakka12 · 28-10-2018 2:36pm

You say a child swallowing a lego brick is an emergency yet that is also a self inflicted injury too
Maybe the stroke victim had a stroke because they over eat and smoke and dont take their blood pressure meds so its self inflicted too
I dont see at all how somebody who does a marathon and has a heart attack is injuring themselves seeing as 99.9% of poeple in marathons dont have heart attacks, I would think thats very much an accidental emergency situation if there ever was one
Anyone whos injured and needs emergency attention should be allowed to use it

Big Bag of Chips · 28-10-2018 2:41pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if there isnt already there needs to be some kind of annual statistical lists that each A&E can look at and investigate as to what the biggest issues people present themselves to A&E departments with.. .

There already is. In fact it would be produced a lot more often than annually. How do you think the media know what sort of waiting lists there are, and why Saturday night/Sunday morning is the busiest time in A&E?

Do you know how to use an Internet search engine?

Kevin Finnerty · 28-10-2018 2:42pm

doolox wrote: »

Because the government are involved heavily and expensively in health care they should provide information and advertisement campaigns to provide people with all the necessary information to steer towards safe choices. The drinks industry caused huge furore and blocked the minimum prices law for alcohol. I do not think this law will work because alcohol in this country is not price sensitive. People will drink no matter what the cost. The minimum prices law should be able to yield extra money for the Government to spend on health education and care of alcohol related disease in the community and the money should not be diverted to anything else. The tragedy is that the minimum prices law is not a tax but will serve to increase the profits of brewers, distillers and bottlers and also the profits of suppliers and retailers. The government only benefits by increased VAT and taxes on the increased profits and this disappears in to the general tax account to be used for good knows what.

There should be an on-street first aid stations for drunks who fall foul of drinking too much, paid for by the pubs and clubs. There should be a register of drink related incidents to find out which premises are doling out too much drink to some clients although with multiple visits to a lot of pubs by a particular group or individual, it might be hard to trace which pub over served a client and caused a health incident.

Similar setups should be arranged for large sporting occasions and anywhere dangerous activities are carried out. A and E should be kept relatively free and available regardless of the weekend or the presence of festivals, sporting events etc which seem to incur a large number of casualties.

Another source of accidents is DIY and other house maintenance activities. These should be heavily regulated and monitored especially regarding the use of electricity and gas etc and the use of power tools such as chainsaws and sharp powertools and working at heights without proper training and advice.

Plant hire business should be made to hire out safety gear and personal protective equipment and issue advisory leaflets with hired out equipment.

Finally there is a group of people who do actually self inflict harm on themselves due to mental health issues and are more to be supported and helped through life rather than be castigated for some wrong doing as perceived by general society. These people need the support, understanding and alleviation of stress in their lives rather than be judged as duds or wrongdoers.

Any thoughts on personal responsibility at all? "Over served a client", household maintenance and DIY being "heavily regulated and monitored", plant hire supplying PPE and training?

Sadb · 28-10-2018 3:06pm

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

You are usually charged the €100 upfront. If you are admitted to the hospital you can then seek a refund. I did after waiting 12 hours on the floor of one A&E (no chairs or trolleys left), I was admitted as an in-patient and sought a refund of the €100 after discharge from the hospital.

www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/3/acutehospitals/hospitals/hospitalcharges.html

That link isn’t working.
I went to south doc earlier this year and was told I had to go to a&e. I was told in south doc that I wouldn’t have to pay the southdoc fee of €60 but if I chose not to I would have to pay the €100 a&e fee. Obviously I chose to pay the €60. I was then admitted for 2 night so ended up having to pay for that too, are you saying that if I didn’t pay the southdoc fee I wouldn’t have had to pay the a&e fee saving myself €60?

On another note, I certainly didn’t get any refreshments while in a&e and my dinner for both nights consisted of one plain cooked chicken fillet and half a tomato!

doolox · 28-10-2018 3:18pm

It happens at work now that training and advice and wearing PPE is mandatory for most jobs involving machinery. The one big area not monitored is plant hire and tool use in the DIY sector. There should at least be an effort to minimise accidents especially with height access equipment and the likes of chainsaws.

I have had personal experience with a fall from a height and my father injured his leg with a chainsaw. Both are hazardous situations. Both need a little more attention to advise and details to reduce accidents.

I find that most plant hire businesses near me will actually give you a run down on precautions needed for each piece of equipment hired out so there needs to be very little added to what is already, thankfully, current practice in my location.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 3:24pm

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

There already is. In fact it would be produced a lot more often than annually. How do you think the media know what sort of waiting lists there are, and why Saturday night/Sunday morning is the busiest time in A&E?

Do you know how to use an Internet search engine?

and you would be a great help if you posted a link as well .. but i suppose that might have taken up too much of your precious time finding and posting the link

Doctors room ghost · 28-10-2018 3:31pm

Timmaay wrote: »

If I wrapped myself in enough cotton wool and avoided absolutely every situation that might land me in hospital with a self influenced injury I'd very quickly become so depressed that I'd have to go clog up a bed in a mental institution.

Plus you’d make maggots in the summer with the heat

Big Bag of Chips · 28-10-2018 3:33pm

I have no interest in being "a great help". I found loads of links, and read them. You could find the same links. You might learn more if you did some of the work yourself, rather than expecting to be spoon fed.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 3:35pm

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I have no interest in being "a great help". I found loads of links, and read them. You could find the same links. You might learn more if you did some of the work yourself, rather than expecting to be spoon fed.

well you have succeeded - well done!

i might have a search later if I can be arsed

Big Bag of Chips · 28-10-2018 3:40pm

Good lad.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-10-2018 5:19pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I beg your pardon I have been asleep. I have not yet found a way to check replies whilst my eyes are closed...

Hmm.... posts at midnight on a Sat Night Sun morning, then goes straight to bed. I think I see the problem here.

GreeBo · 28-10-2018 5:23pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

throwing it out there to see what others think. Here's what I think .

HSE A&E departments across the land choc a block with waiting hours sometimes around the 4hour wait. The name is 'accident and emergency'

If someone chooses to climb a mountain and falls and hurts themselves , is that an accident?

If someone gets blind drunk and falls over and hurt themselves or gets into a fight , is that an accident ?

if someone decides to run a marathon ( ) and falls down due to exhaustion or has a heart attack , is that an accident?

those kind of things, and loads more like those situations , i am going to go out on a limb and say "no one forced you to do those things, and they are not 'accidents' " and so why should these kind of people block up A&E departments across the country - far better to take them to some kind of private hospital and charge them for the medical treatment they receive?

If someone is involved in a car accident through no fault of their own , its an accident and could also be an emergency situation.

If someone accidentally falls over at home and breaks a bone or a hip or something ... thats an accident.

if someone has a stroke at home , that is an emergency

If a child swallows a lego brick thats an emergency.

Why are we chocking up A&E departments with all and sundry people who for want of a better word has caused their own injury stretching the services and waiting times for other people who find themselves in A&E through no fault of their own?

Should we have some kind of an ambulance system whereby if an ambulance/paramedics is called out that they can determine on the spot where the person they pick up should go to ? ie either a HSE A&E department or a private hospital where the patient who has self inflicted wounds on themselves pick up the tab for their treatment too?

it could help to cut down A&E waiting times greatly for those that really need it?

I think you nned to re-read your own post.

Accident & *Emergency*

Widdershins · 28-10-2018 6:21pm

I once saw a woman sent away from A and E because as far as I could tell she was seen as just drunk and hysterical. I hear an EMT arguing that she had hit her head when she fell over but the doctor was having none of it.

Anyway yes everyone should use the service. Doctors need to be non judgemental.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 28-10-2018 6:51pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i'm not even going to think about it - its the subject I am putting forward (and I am getting it now, people think its a stupid suggestion)

, its not about me or my family - off the top of my head there is nothing I can think of recreational wise where we would ever find ourselves in that situation that I could think of - you know like we dont go climbing mountans (we not me personly or my kids ) nor run marathons .. nor go out jogging nor do any dangerous activities .. so I think the only way we would find ourselves in A&E would be for reasons of an accident or emergency out of our control

A knife injury whilst food prepping can happen to anyone, absolutely anyone. Sometimes out of stupidity, sometimes just as a genuine accident. Whether caused by stupidity or not, it’s still a self-inflicted wound. Should chopping knife injuries therefore not be treated simply because they are self-inflicted?

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 7:40pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

A knife injury whilst food prepping can happen to anyone, absolutely anyone. Sometimes out of stupidity, sometimes just as a genuine accident. Whether caused by stupidity or not, it’s still a self-inflicted wound. Should chopping knife injuries therefore not be treated simply because they are self-inflicted?

we have already established my idea has flaws ... but some of it could be put into action to help cut down waiting times in A&E and relieve pressures on doctors and nurses

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 28-10-2018 8:08pm

Or we could pay doctors and nurses properly, increase funding to health and cater for everyone. But then Andy wouldn’t have anything to troll about

KERSPLAT! · 28-10-2018 8:10pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

we have already established my idea has flaws ... but some of it could be put into action to help cut down waiting times in A&E and relieve pressures on doctors and nurses

"Flaws'

You're as mad as a box of frogs.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 8:12pm

Luca Hollow Quintuple wrote: »

Or we could pay doctors and nurses properly, increase funding to health and cater for everyone. But then Andy wouldn’t have anything to troll about

never gonna happen

what is this these days that everyone reads an idea that is a bit out there and a bit radical people think its trolling - I tell you what its awful easy to upset people these days!

Widdershins · 28-10-2018 8:16pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

we have already established my idea has flaws ... but some of it could be put into action to help cut down waiting times in A&E and relieve pressures on doctors and nurses

Limerick A&E received a significant amount of additional funding (60million?) in the past couple of years, resulting in a new A&E department, with new imaging machines, yet the conditions there are possibly worse than before.
I'm not sure it's really a funding issue.

I've a friend who believes drunks and addicts with chronic behaviour issues should either not be treated or not treated with public funds. When I look at people kept waiting with problems they had no choice in, I can see both of your points, to an extent.

The only A&E use I mind is the kind that should be obvious when a GP visit would be more appropriate and they do have notices in A&E listing symptoms that should be checked by a GP or out of hours clinic/Local Injury Unit. I once overheard a man saying he chose A&E because the doctors there prescribe ''better tablets''.

Grayson · 28-10-2018 8:20pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I was born at home

most accidents occur in or close to home.

Should self inflicted wounded people use our A&E departments?

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