Should self inflicted wounded people use our A&E departments?

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:02am #1

throwing it out there to see what others think. Here's what I think .

HSE A&E departments across the land choc a block with waiting hours sometimes around the 4hour wait. The name is 'accident and emergency'

If someone chooses to climb a mountain and falls and hurts themselves , is that an accident?

If someone gets blind drunk and falls over and hurt themselves or gets into a fight , is that an accident ?

if someone decides to run a marathon (

) and falls down due to exhaustion or has a heart attack , is that an accident?

those kind of things, and loads more like those situations , i am going to go out on a limb and say "no one forced you to do those things, and they are not 'accidents' " and so why should these kind of people block up A&E departments across the country - far better to take them to some kind of private hospital and charge them for the medical treatment they receive?

If someone is involved in a car accident through no fault of their own , its an accident and could also be an emergency situation.

If someone accidentally falls over at home and breaks a bone or a hip or something ... thats an accident.

if someone has a stroke at home , that is an emergency

If a child swallows a lego brick thats an emergency.

Why are we chocking up A&E departments with all and sundry people who for want of a better word has caused their own injury stretching the services and waiting times for other people who find themselves in A&E through no fault of their own?

Should we have some kind of an ambulance system whereby if an ambulance/paramedics is called out that they can determine on the spot where the person they pick up should go to ? ie either a HSE A&E department or a private hospital where the patient who has self inflicted wounds on themselves pick up the tab for their treatment too?

it could help to cut down A&E waiting times greatly for those that really need it?

Inquitus · 28-10-2018 12:02am

meh!

Water John · 28-10-2018 12:05am

A & E don't make moral judgement calls. They work to save lives.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 28-10-2018 12:05am

Was you being born an accident ?

x Purple Pawprints x · 28-10-2018 12:05am

Sigh.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:06am

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Was you being born an accident ?

I was born at home

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:07am

Water John wrote: »

A & E don't make moral judgement calls. They work to save lives.

not all the time - most of the time they just patch up people

maybe its long overdue to do things like make moral judgement calls

28-10-2018 12:08am

Firstly this has to be the most stupid thing I’ve ever read.

Secondly, being brought by ambulance, walking yourself in or flying your private helicopter to A&E doesn’t matter, you will be charged €100 unless you’ve got a doctors letter sending you to A&E.

As well as that without a medical card the treatment in a public hospital is not free. You pay €80 per night up to I think it’s €800 or 10 nights. So your idea is ridiculous in more ways than one.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:11am

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

Firstly this has to be the most stupid thing I’ve ever read.

why?

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

Secondly, being brought by ambulance, walking yourself in or flying your private helicopter to A&E doesn’t matter, you will be charged €100 unless you’ve got a doctors letter sending you to A&E.

when does that happen? - I havent heard of that

28-10-2018 12:12am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

why?

when does that happen? - I havent heard of that

Yeah by the sounds of your OP theres a lot of things you’ve never heard of.

Go to any A&E with no doctors letter you’re charged €100 w/o a medical card. Some will send a bill some (Waterford hospital) charge you on the spot.

Duckworth_Luas · 28-10-2018 12:13am

28-10-2018 12:14am

like even in the cases of non accidents you describe where a drunk person falls and cracks their head that’s an accident, they didn’t throw themselves headfirst to the pavement.

meeeeh · 28-10-2018 12:16am

Hospitals sending away people with life threatening injuries because they came to public and not private a&e? Ambulance waiting for guards to decide who caused car accident so they can drive off to the right unit? That will work.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:16am

OK - money aside .. for the waiting times alone and the pressure it causes to A&E departments would it be better for people not to chock up waiting rooms with self inflicted injuries?

Water John · 28-10-2018 12:18am

There may be a case for drunk tanks such as used in Australia. Other than that the whole discussion is rubbish.

KERSPLAT! · 28-10-2018 12:18am

Jesus you talk some shyte.

28-10-2018 12:20am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

OK - money aside .. for the waiting times alone and the pressure it causes to A&E departments would it be better for people not to chock up waiting rooms with self inflicted injuries?

You do realise A&E’s operate on a priority basis? The most urgent cases are seen first? If you’re waiting for hours it’s because the triage nurse has deemed you fit to wait above everyone before you. OP serious question have you ever been to an A&E??

One eyed Jack · 28-10-2018 12:24am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

OK - money aside .. for the waiting times alone and the pressure it causes to A&E departments would it be better for people not to chock up waiting rooms with self inflicted injuries?

When you said ‘self inflicted’, I thought you meant things like people cutting themselves on purpose, or leaping off buildings on purpose, or generally doing things on purpose that would require a visit to A&E. The list you gave isn’t people doing things on purpose. They’re accidents, which require emergency treatment.

My answer would still be ‘yes’ all the same.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:25am

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

You do realise A&E’s operate on a priority basis? The most urgent cases are seen first? If you’re waiting for hours it’s because the triage nurse has deemed you fit to wait above everyone before you. OP serious question have you ever been to an A&E??

I try not to make a habit of it - when i have before its been circa 3 or 4 hour wait from memory - there were also clearly some people in there that could have gone to their GP for what they went to A&E for (although I am not medically trained to asses their predicaments I have to add

)

naw, I havent been for years , thanks be to God

BeerFarts · 28-10-2018 12:27am

I bet Peter Casey is livid he missed out on this idea.

Roger Hassenforder · 28-10-2018 12:28am

Water John wrote: »

There may be a case for drunk tanks such as used in Australia. Other than that the whole discussion is rubbish.

This

/thread interest

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:28am

I dont have to go to A&E to know that there are big problems and people waiting in corridors on trolleys waiting to be seen - sure I hear it on the news loads of times - overcrowded A&E departments

bassy · 28-10-2018 12:29am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

throwing it out there to see what others think. Here's what I think .

HSE A&E departments across the land choc a block with waiting hours sometimes around the 4hour wait. The name is 'accident and emergency'

If someone chooses to climb a mountain and falls and hurts themselves , is that an accident?

If someone gets blind drunk and falls over and hurt themselves or gets into a fight , is that an accident ?

if someone decides to run a marathon ( ) and falls down due to exhaustion or has a heart attack , is that an accident?

those kind of things, and loads more like those situations , i am going to go out on a limb and say "no one forced you to do those things, and they are not 'accidents' " and so why should these kind of people block up A&E departments across the country - far better to take them to some kind of private hospital and charge them for the medical treatment they receive?

If someone is involved in a car accident through no fault of their own , its an accident and could also be an emergency situation.

If someone accidentally falls over at home and breaks a bone or a hip or something ... thats an accident.

if someone has a stroke at home , that is an emergency

If a child swallows a lego brick thats an emergency.

Why are we chocking up A&E departments with all and sundry people who for want of a better word has caused their own injury stretching the services and waiting times for other people who find themselves in A&E through no fault of their own?

Should we have some kind of an ambulance system whereby if an ambulance/paramedics is called out that they can determine on the spot where the person they pick up should go to ? ie either a HSE A&E department or a private hospital where the patient who has self inflicted wounds on themselves pick up the tab for their treatment too?

it could help to cut down A&E waiting times greatly for those that really need it?

ask yourself the same question if it was one of yours............................

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:39am

bassy wrote: »

ask yourself the same question if it was one of yours............................

i'm not even going to think about it - its the subject I am putting forward (and I am getting it now, people think its a stupid suggestion)

, its not about me or my family - off the top of my head there is nothing I can think of recreational wise where we would ever find ourselves in that situation that I could think of - you know like we dont go climbing mountans (we not me personly or my kids

) nor run marathons .. nor go out jogging nor do any dangerous activities .. so I think the only way we would find ourselves in A&E would be for reasons of an accident or emergency out of our control

bassy · 28-10-2018 12:40am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i'm not even going to think about it - its the subject I am putting forward (and I am getting it now, people think its a stupid suggestion)

, its not about me or my family - off the top of my head there is nothing I can think of recreational wise where we would ever find ourselves in that situation that I could think of - you know like we dont go climbing mountans (we not me personly or my kids ) nor run marathons .. nor go out jogging nor do any dangerous activities .. so I think the only way we would find ourselves in A&E would be for reasons of an accident or emergency out of our control

Hows ann ?.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:43am

bassy wrote: »

Hows ann ?.

I dont know an ann

Signore Fancy Pants · 28-10-2018 12:47am

This is beyond stupid.

28-10-2018 12:48am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dont have to go to A&E to know that there are big problems and people waiting in corridors on trolleys waiting to be seen - sure I hear it on the news loads of times - overcrowded A&E departments

That is a staffing issue. Not people going unnecessarily, despite the fact it does happen, the main reason is understaffing. The HSE isn’t paying staff a decent wage and because of that doctors and nurses are emigrating to countries where they will be paid well.

cbreeze · 28-10-2018 12:57am

I've spent many hours in Emergency Departments - once for me but mostly for a seriously ill family member. Its hard to see who does not deserve to be cared for. Nobody really wants to be in whatever situation drives them to a place like an Irish ED.
You are never alone in the ED so you are alert to all the sounds around you when you are sitting or lying on the floor or luckily in a chair (once you are past triage and are waiting for treatment).

There is pain, and crying and shock, but also great care and consideration from the medical staff. The trolley comes round with refreshments, the staff come round to check on you and you might get a upgrade when they do the shift change as your nearest and dearest gets worse by the minute.

The trolleys come and go as the lucky few get beds in the wards. The ambulances bring in more and more people and this affects your place on the queue. You wait through the night as you get moved from an armchair to a trolley, the trolley you are in is near the ever opening and closing doors to the outer are - the ever opening and closing doors under the fluorescent lights which never go off. If you are lucky after 15 hours or so you can be promoted to a cubicle. You are nearer to a bed then and the shift changes and the new consultant comes round and you wait, and wait. And you get more and more exhausted and you wish you had never come in.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 12:59am

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

That is a staffing issue. Not people going unnecessarily, despite the fact it does happen, the main reason is understaffing. The HSE isn’t paying staff a decent wage and because of that doctors and nurses are emigrating to countries where they will be paid well.

if its under-staffing one of the things they could try doing then is off-loading some of the patients onto a private institution then to alleviate the pressures in the hse A&E department

28-10-2018 12:59am

yo what ED did you go to where they have a refreshment trolley? Mother**** the two I’ve been to (Wexford and Waterford) would watch you starve before offering anything :pac: in fairness to Waterford the nurses offered tea and coffee once admitted while waiting on a ward.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:05am

I have an inkling some-times why triage nurses don't want to send someone home or tell them to go see a GP instead - I am figuring it could be to do with suing or something like that .. they may have even had in thepast situations where they have told people "its not really a thing for A&E" .. then sent them home and they died or something or it was really bad and the hospital got sued .
Just guessing like.

Mrs OBumble · 28-10-2018 1:05am

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

Yeah by the sounds of your OP theres a lot of things you’ve never heard of.

Go to any A&E with no doctors letter you’re charged €100 w/o a medical card. Some will send a bill some (Waterford hospital) charge you on the spot.

Nope, you're only charged if you don't get admitted. If you do, then its 80/night for the bed up to 10 days a year but the A&E is free.

Even then the bill is postedmonths later and there are frw consequences for not paying.

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:14am

2010 - that's the last time I was in A&E with pulmonary embolism - bloody nightmare , could hardly breath. Waiting for hours even after seeing the triage nurse to get assessed , some people in there looked like they didnt had any (showing) physical afflictions (like broken arms and open wounds) .. they looked better than i did anyway - I walked in though, sent by the doctor. maybe if I called an ambulance I might have been seen quicker ... maybe - a lot of people coffing and spluttering in the waiting room, think it was the flu season - the nurses didnt seem rushed off their feet , even got to hear of 'what went on last night when they went out to a nightclub' plus other patients personal details.

Weepsie · 28-10-2018 1:17am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

If someone is involved in a car accident through no fault of their own , its an accident and could also be an emergency situation.

How do you mean? Car accidents are easily one of the most common sources of injuries and it should be widely accepted that getting in car could be considered a relatively dangerous thing, even if it is completely normal and everyday/mundane.

Why not argue, anyone in a car accident should not be treated because they are taking a gamble on their 2 tonnes of metal being easy and predictable to control?

I'm short no. A&E should be for everyone, regardless of injury, and they do prioritise on severity as much as possible. I'd like there to be separate triage areas for elderly people and kids however as they sometimes have to wait 18+ hours in a seat while watching all the eejit and drunks clog up the doctors' time

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:19am

Weepsie wrote: »

How do you mean? Car accidents are easily one of the most common sources of injuries and it should be widely accepted that getting in car could be considered a relatively dangerous thing, even if it is completely normal and everyday/mundane.

Why not argue, anyone in a car accident should not be treated because they are taking a gamble on their 2 tonnes of metal being easy and predictable to control?

I'm short no. A&E should be for everyone, regardless of injury, and they do prioritise on severity as much as possible. I'd like there to be separate triage areas for elderly people and kids however as they sometimes have to wait 18+ hours in a seat while watching all the eejit and drunks clog up the doctors' time

Good points raised

Andy From Sligo · 28-10-2018 1:22am

i am retiring to bed now its 1.20am old time and 12.20am new time (dont forget to put your clocks back) - I shall check back in tomorrow.

it be a bit of irony tonight if I fall out of bed and break something and end up in A&E

cbreeze · 28-10-2018 1:24am

Sonny Faint GrocerMGS wrote: »

yo what ED did you go to where they have a refreshment trolley? Mother**** the two I’ve been to (Wexford and Waterford) would watch you starve before offering anything :pac: in fairness to Waterford the nurses offered tea and coffee once admitted while waiting on a ward.

Beaumont - fresh tomato soup and egg sandwiches and tea, coffee and biscuits

cbreeze · 28-10-2018 1:24am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i am retiring to bed now its 1.20am old time and 12.20am new time (dont forget to put your clocks back) - I shall check back in tomorrow.

it be a bit of irony tonight if I fall out of bed and break something and end up in A&E

Night night, Andy

Outlaw Pete · 28-10-2018 1:33am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope, you're only charged if you don't get admitted.

Not true. I was charged €100 recently before being seen.

Zaph · 28-10-2018 1:36am

If someone is brought into A&E unconscious, should the staff wait until they regain consciousness before starting treatment so that they can find out if the injury was self-inflicted? Or how about if I'm doing some DIY at home and my screwdriver slips and goes through my hand. Is that self-inflicted or an accident?

In the long and inglorious history of dumb AH threads, this certainly has to rank up there amongst the dumbest of them all.

28-10-2018 2:06am

Zaph wrote: »

If someone is brought into A&E unconscious, should the staff wait until they regain consciousness before starting treatment so that they can find out if the injury was self-inflicted? Or how about if I'm doing some DIY at home and my screwdriver slips and goes through my hand. Is that self-inflicted or an accident?

In the long and inglorious history of dumb AH threads, this certainly has to rank up there amongst the dumbest of them all.

Well, we all know you shouldn’t have been playing with screwdrivers. Do you have a safe pass to operate one?

freshpopcorn · 28-10-2018 2:43am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

those kind of things, and loads more like those situations , i am going to go out on a limb and say "no one forced you to do those things, and they are not 'accidents' " and so why should these kind of people block up A&E departments across the country - far better to take them to some kind of private hospital and charge them for the medical treatment they receive?

If someone is involved in a car accident through no fault of their own , its an accident and could also be an emergency situation.

It would know hard to know exactly who was at fault right away. Without an investigation taking place.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

If someone accidentally falls over at home and breaks a bone or a hip or something ... thats an accident.

What if the person fell over a piece of clutter or something that was in the way or it was because they didn't get something repaired.. It was careless so I take it these people shouldn't be treated.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if someone has a stroke at home , that is an emergency

Was the person a smoker and advised to give up?
Did they ignore the warning signs?

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

If a child swallows a lego brick thats an emergency.

How did this happen was it due to neglect and the child not being under proper supervision. It's sounds like carelessness to me.

Irish Guitarist · 28-10-2018 10:01am

if someone decides to run a marathon ( ) and falls down due to exhaustion or has a heart attack , is that an accident?

It means they probably have a bad heart.

If someone is involved in a car accident through no fault of their own , its an accident and could also be an emergency situation.

By the logic you used in ascertaining the other things weren't accidents no one forced this person to drive a car.

P_1 · 28-10-2018 10:06am

That has to be one of the more idiotic mé féinist ops I've ever read. OP if you seriously think that way do us all a favour and hop on the next plane going to America

Alun · 28-10-2018 10:09am

Water John wrote: »

A & E don't make moral judgement calls. They work to save lives.

Amen to that. The same goes for the thousands of people involved in voluntary rescue organisations all over the country .. Mountain Rescue, Coastguard, RNLI etc. etc. Long may it continue.

Akrasia · 28-10-2018 10:19am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I try not to make a habit of it - when i have before its been circa 3 or 4 hour wait from memory - there were also clearly some people in there that could have gone to their GP for what they went to A&E for (although I am not medically trained to asses their predicaments I have to add )

naw, I havent been for years , thanks be to God

Jesus Tapdancing Christ do you even read your own posts before submitting them?

You know absolutely nothing about anyone else's medical situation or whether or not they were sent to the a&e by their gp.

The last time I was at A&E it was for a 'sore throat' that was actually quincy and was very close to blocking my airways.

People don't go to A&E for the fun of it.

Akrasia · 28-10-2018 10:24am

Zaph wrote: »

If someone is brought into A&E unconscious, should the staff wait until they regain consciousness before starting treatment so that they can find out if the injury was self-inflicted? Or how about if I'm doing some DIY at home and my screwdriver slips and goes through my hand. Is that self-inflicted or an accident?

In the long and inglorious history of dumb AH threads, this certainly has to rank up there amongst the dumbest of them all.

And of course, all suicide attempts should be left to die or suffer serious life altering injury, cause screw mental illness, Andy has better things to be doing than waiting his turn in an A&E

Wesser · 28-10-2018 10:26am

But Andy.
Some of the people who had strokes smoked....
Some of them are diabetic which might be due to their diet....
Should all these people be turned away because it's their fault?

batgoat · 28-10-2018 10:31am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i'm not even going to think about it - its the subject I am putting forward (and I am getting it now, people think its a stupid suggestion)

, its not about me or my family - off the top of my head there is nothing I can think of recreational wise where we would ever find ourselves in that situation that I could think of - you know like we dont go climbing mountans (we not me personly or my kids ) nor run marathons .. nor go out jogging nor do any dangerous activities .. so I think the only way we would find ourselves in A&E would be for reasons of an accident or emergency out of our control

Don't exercise - dangerous although by doing so you will eventually add far more unnecessary load to health services. Your entire logic is to gloss over actual problems in our health services by potentially endangering lives or making minor injuries far more serious in long run.

Water John · 28-10-2018 10:34am

Andy today it's "old time", in summer it's "new time".

Roger sorry don't have a link, just saw a docu on drunk tanks in some Australian State, maybe Victoria. It would just take the rowdiness away from the nurses and other patients. Often these just need time to sober up, regular clients.

Should self inflicted wounded people use our A&E departments?

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